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Financial Fair Play (FFP)
- Thread starter Hawkeye1947
- Start date
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
We're selling Mangala aren't we? The suggested fee would seem to bring us pretty close.
Baronvon
Jack Burkitt
To be honest, losing four points is better than I expected. If we've broken the rules then I'll take it. Only one point behind Luton and it gives us a clear objective, get more points than they do over the last 9 games.
We're more than capable - it won't be easy but it's doable. Of course it's frustrating knowing that we've essentially thrown away both games against them this season and should be in a far better position in relation to Luton than we actually are - but they'll have plenty of regrets of their own. They threw a 4-2 lead away against Newcastle, somehow conspired to lose against Bournemouth despite being 3-0 at half time...there'll be more examples.
In any event, the past ain't for changing - all that matters now is we get our heads right and do the business required. We have it within our capability - but the team need to be up for the fight of their lives.
We're more than capable - it won't be easy but it's doable. Of course it's frustrating knowing that we've essentially thrown away both games against them this season and should be in a far better position in relation to Luton than we actually are - but they'll have plenty of regrets of their own. They threw a 4-2 lead away against Newcastle, somehow conspired to lose against Bournemouth despite being 3-0 at half time...there'll be more examples.
In any event, the past ain't for changing - all that matters now is we get our heads right and do the business required. We have it within our capability - but the team need to be up for the fight of their lives.
Maybe my view is too simplistic but I am very upset and angry we got into this situation. We should have sold whoever we had to make sure we did not breach.
Could we really not have found a club who would have paid £35m for Johnson in June and one which he would have gone to. It’s very bad management and I feel it should be called out for what it is. I don’t know how people can defend EM on this.
FFP rules are ridiculous in my view and just protect the elite but we knew the rules so we had to make sure we did not break them. It’s just bad ownership I don’t see how anyone can defend EM and the board it’s mismanagement that has cost us 4 points.
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Bobby The Brain
Weasel
I give up.
How can this be true? We have extra headroom by being in the prem another year, Johno’s sale is now counted in the next period (hence this mess) plus, as mentioned above, the impending sale of Mangala.
What gives?
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
In effect, Masters and his cronies have the option to lodge a counter-appeal against what they may regard as potential leniency shown to us by the commission in response to the PL demand for an 8-points sanction.
Mr. Blonde
Jack Burkitt
As I understand it there's only an option for Lyon to buy Mangala, no obligation
So if they chose not to exercise said option that would mean we'd have to sell him to someone else, or another player
I may be wrong as my head is spinning with all of this shit
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
All of the above, plus the rumoured changes to the rules potentially coming as well.
However it’s open season on us now since the club statement.
Mr. Blonde
Jack Burkitt
Anyway I'm not sure I care about any of this financial bollocks any more
I just want to get back to supporting my club and watching some bloody football!
I just want to get back to supporting my club and watching some bloody football!
Is it case though, just for Forest, that their overall commercial income is so low, that it does not allow them to maintain the current playing squad, hence the requirement (or, alleged requirement) to sell a player - again - in the summer?
But with the revenue from Johnson (47.5m) and Mangala (25m possibly) that is over 70m there, is the suggestion that Forest need to sell yet another player?
I don’t think they have included any of that information in their sums, most people are saying the article is very wrong.
Also contradicts The Athletic saying we are on track to be fine as well as the legal report yesterday.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Guess that depends on how many new toys the Marinakis’ want?
It's Baggio
John Robertson
We've already used the extra headroom.
This seasons limit is -£83m (£13m + £35m + £35m)
We are already at -£92m before we even consider this season (£40m loss in FY2022, £52m loss in FY2023)
Does selling Johnson/Mangala/Scarpa/Surridge get us from a £52m loss in 2023 to a £9m profit in 2024?
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
What does seem clear, is that anyone thinking that this can just be put behind us because we've received the docked points now appears to be being extremely optimistic.
The careless and incompetent actions of the top brass hang heavy over the club, and look likely to do so for some time sadly until we've caught up from this mess.
The careless and incompetent actions of the top brass hang heavy over the club, and look likely to do so for some time sadly until we've caught up from this mess.
BristolfaninPeace
Youth Team
Yep, EFL have Appealed cases before. Presumably the PL can too.
If both sides Appealed I dunno what would happen then.
Cloughie1975
John Robertson
The suggestion is that we need to sell another player before (cough) the end of June.
Bob Fossil
Nottingham's dirty secret
Johnson is £48m of pure profit alone so...with the others.....yes?
So no more star player sales required.
BristolfaninPeace
Youth Team
One thing, perhaps two that struck me as surprising.
1) The Promotion Bonuses seem not to be excluded from the calculations?? In which case I wonder about Fulham, Bournemouth and probably others if we go further back.
Bournemouth pre tax losses vs an adjusted Upper Loss limit of £72m
-£32m 2018-19
-£60m 2019-20
+£17m 2020-21
(Average is -£21.5m).
-£55.5m 2021-22
-£110m the challenge to get down to £72m and not exclude Promotion Bonuses.
Or also £72m to last year, £78m down to £72m while last year loss still unknown to us.
Fulham Pre-Tax losses vs an adjusted Upper Loss limit of £72m
-£20m 2018-19
-£48m 2019-20
-£93m 2020-21
(Average is -£70.5m)
-£57.5m 2021-22
If Promotion Bonuses excluded from 2021-22 minimum the challenge is to get from £148m to £72m without factoring Promotion Bonuses.
Or failing that..
-£128m subject to last year's number so £72m without factoring Promotion Bonuses.
The other slight surprise is that debt write offs appear to be, in the PL at least because I recall the EFL had a case vs QPR over this.
1) The Promotion Bonuses seem not to be excluded from the calculations?? In which case I wonder about Fulham, Bournemouth and probably others if we go further back.
Bournemouth pre tax losses vs an adjusted Upper Loss limit of £72m
-£32m 2018-19
-£60m 2019-20
+£17m 2020-21
(Average is -£21.5m).
-£55.5m 2021-22
-£110m the challenge to get down to £72m and not exclude Promotion Bonuses.
Or also £72m to last year, £78m down to £72m while last year loss still unknown to us.
Fulham Pre-Tax losses vs an adjusted Upper Loss limit of £72m
-£20m 2018-19
-£48m 2019-20
-£93m 2020-21
(Average is -£70.5m)
-£57.5m 2021-22
If Promotion Bonuses excluded from 2021-22 minimum the challenge is to get from £148m to £72m without factoring Promotion Bonuses.
Or failing that..
-£128m subject to last year's number so £72m without factoring Promotion Bonuses.
The other slight surprise is that debt write offs appear to be, in the PL at least because I recall the EFL had a case vs QPR over this.
Cloughie1975
John Robertson
The Ziegler article seems to suggest that we do.
Bobby The Brain
Weasel
Football is getting too complicated, too corrupt, if the best we can hope for is selling our best players every year then I can’t be arsed with it. What’s the point.
I thought they were changing the reporting rules so that big clubs can't get caught up in it next year.
So shouldn't our calculations of where we are have that factored in?
So shouldn't our calculations of where we are have that factored in?
It's Baggio
John Robertson
That was the inference from the figures in the report. Question mark over whether they include Mangala's potential sale in those forecasts.
Perhaps but I'd wager that costs have increased too, we spent approx £100m this season, so that's maybe another £30m of amortized transfer fee's on this seasons book's. Plus the wages will be very lumpy.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
They’ll probably find a way of changing the rules so the ‘big’ clubs get more leeway…and we get less.
It's Baggio
John Robertson
Changes haven't been voted on yet, could potentially be done at the end of season AGM.
This season will still be judged on the current rules.