The Mood

[andover red]

Worrall, Mangala for starters. Worrall as club captain and dressing room presence, Mangala because we didn't need to replace him.

Johnson may have stayed if we didn't need to sell. Hard to say whether we wouldn't have cashed in though.

Then maybe we could have pushed harder on Garner. Maybe we could have kept Cook or McKenna as backup considering Felipe and Boly have struggled to remain fit.

All 6 or 7 of those players would have been decent options for us still. Maybe not star players but part of a healthy squad.

It's a fair question too, the squad doesn't have anywhere near the desire and work ethic that promotion squad did or even our squad from last year. It's a major contributing reason as to why we're at risk of relegation.

Mangala wasn't even part of the promotion team. Neither Worrall nor McKenna have been good enough to make any meaningful impact and Cook is struggling in the league below. I loved that championship season as much as the next person, but to suggest those players would be better for us is just fantasy.

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[Erik]

The atmosphere wasn't the same at the beginning of the season either. Everyone loves Coops but we were plunging towards the dross at the bottom. We hadn't a clue how to use the non-injured striker. The fans were beginning to question him.

I hate to break this to you but Coopers gone and we're now in amongst the dross at the bottom.

 

[valspoodle]

The mood in poodle towers is despondent.

 

[Robertson]

My mood is - jesus f***ing christ imagine if we’d lost .

 

[Berkshire Red]

I hate to break this to you but Coopers gone and we're now in amongst the dross at the bottom.

No shit, Sherlock. We're 2 points closer. We were moving faster in that direction before Coops was sacked though.

No point in debating this one further. You firmly believe that Cooper should not have been sacked, supposedly because you believe he would have turned it around. I firmly believe we'd be in the relegation zone now if he were still here.

 

[Monkman]

It could be worse tonight-this time last Sunday we could have been looking at being 9 points
behind Luton and effectively finished-if Luton had beaten Bournemouth (which they should have done) beaten Forest (which they didn’t) and we get 6 points docked (which hopefully
we don’t).
Even if we do,we’re only 3 points off safety (which is one win).
I’d say overall it’s been a good week for Forest-even allowing for the late concession today.

Well said Cloughie. That late equaliser was a hammer blow - but I still think today's result was worse for Luton than for us. Slightly!

 

[Erik]

No shit, Sherlock. We're 2 points closer. We were moving faster in that direction before Coops was sacked though.

No point in debating this one further. You firmly believe that Cooper should not have been sacked, supposedly because you believe he would have turned it around. I firmly believe we'd be in the relegation zone now if he were still here.

Moving faster in that direction

How desperately sad.

I wouldn't have sacked him because I could see the problems were not all of his own making and I believed he deserved better. I didn't believe changing manager would change anything. But I could see he'd come to the end. I was disappointed that he went but understood why. I thought we had a good replacement.

What I don't get is why a certain group, who clearly wanted him gone, are doing all they can to find excuses (and that is what they are) for his successor and at the same time continually hold Cooper responsible and run him down but not Nuno even though Nuno has taken us closer to the drop.

It's sad.

 

[IdiotTricky]

Moving faster in that direction

How desperately sad.

I wouldn't have sacked him because I could see the problems were not all of his own making and I believed he deserved better. I didn't believe changing manager would change anything. But I could see he'd come to the end. I was disappointed that he went but understood why. I thought we had a good replacement.

What I don't get is why a certain group, who clearly wanted him gone, are doing all they can to find excuses (and that is what they are) for his successor and at the same time continually hold Cooper responsible and run him down but not Nuno even though Nuno has taken us closer to the drop.

It's sad.

I want Nuno to succeed, just as I wanted Cooper to succeed. But I, too, felt that SC had come to the end, for whatever combination of reasons.

There's no doubt that we've had some bad luck in recent games, but context is everything and, personally, I'd rather leave the "who's the better manager" for season's end, once those refereeing anomalies, etc, have had a chance to even out. We are where we are and have the manager we have. We can't possibly know if keeping SC would have us in a better or worse position, currently.

Some folks feel we're playing better football under Nuno, yet the same frailties remain, plus the injuries hitting in-form or key players, much like any club, though perhaps more keenly felt by a team - and manager - trying to find the right blends and combinations.

But we have Nuno, not Cooper, and he needs our support. He might get some things wrong, but he's clearly not a bad coach, even if he isn't a clear upgrade on SC.

All that aside, I do think that, if we manage to stay up, we'll be in a much better place for next season, whoever the manager (excluding Stevie Me, Rooney or Lamps, obvs). If we stay up, I imagine it'll be Nuno, unless Mourinho's up for it.

Edit: this isn't especially directed at you, Erik. Just my current perspective on these sorts of arguments.

 

[Frank Clark’s Tash]

I want Nuno to succeed, just as I wanted Cooper to succeed. But I, too, felt that SC had come to the end, for whatever combination of reasons.

There's no doubt that we've had some bad luck in recent games, but context is everything and, personally, I'd rather leave the "who's the better manager" for season's end, once those refereeing anomalies, etc, have had a chance to even out. We are where we are and have the manager we have. We can't possibly know if keeping SC would have us in a better or worse position, currently.

Some folks feel we're playing better football under Nuno, yet the same frailties remain, plus the injuries hitting in-form or key players, much like any club, though perhaps more keenly felt by a team - and manager - trying to find the right blends and combinations.

But we have Nuno, not Cooper, and he needs our support. He might get some things wrong, but he's clearly not a bad coach, even if he isn't a clear upgrade on SC.

All that aside, I do think that, if we manage to stay up, we'll be in a much better place for next season, whoever the manager (excluding Stevie Me, Rooney or Lamps, obvs). If we stay up, I imagine it'll be Nuno, unless Mourinho's up for it.

Edit: this isn't especially directed at you, Erik. Just my current perspective on these sorts of arguments.

You really think those 'refereeing anomalies' are going to even themselves out by the end of the season?!

After you with the crack pipe.

 

[IdiotTricky]

You really think those 'refereeing anomalies' are going to even themselves out by the end of the season?!

After you with the crack pipe.

Sorry, mate. I'm bogarting it.

But it provides a longer sample of games over which we get to discover whether we're just unlucky or, basically, shit.

 

[PynchonForest]

I don't either Cooper or Nuno are good enough. From this point my opinion on NES has turned. We, as a club, recruit players poorly, and recruit managers poorly. I think Marinakis has to have a long hard look at himself in the mirror because, ultimately, the buck has to stop at the feet of the guy making or sanctioning all of the decisions.

 

[JohhnyM]

I don't either Cooper or Nuno are good enough. From this point my opinion on NES has turned. We, as a club, recruit players poorly, and recruit managers poorly. I think Marinakis has to have a long hard look at himself in the mirror because, ultimately, the buck has to stop at the feet of the guy making or sanctioning all of the decisions.

I totally agree.

How he never worked out that Haaland would’ve been a better bet than Origi I’ll never know.

Hopefully he’s learnt his lesson now and we’ll see Pep in the dugout before the season’s over.

 

[Project Zeus]

I said before a ball was kicked this season that I'd take finishing 17th on goal difference and everyone piled in on it.

Second season syndrome is real, folks.

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[Notcher]

It's been very quickly forgotten about the shite that Nuno and the team have had to try and navigate since he came in. The team has been constantly hit with injures to key players, two of which have been our strikers, when they have returned they can't get going because they are trying to get back to fitness, then they break down again.

We've had a period where we lost the most PL players to AFCON....a host of which also returned broken. We've had a month of having goalkeeper which don't goalkeep and even managed to claim assists for the opposition.

All of this has been nicely coated with a stench of uncertainty and fear of points deductions. Yes Nuno has had a couple of games where his decisions have been baffling but let's not have collective bouts or amnesia surrounding the overarching hand he's been dealt. Nuno has never had the opportunity to really get something going with consistency or momentum.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

It's been very quickly forgotten about the shite that Nuno and the team have had to try and navigate since he came in. The team has been constantly hit with injures to key players, two of which have been our strikers, when they have returned they can't get going because they are trying to get back to fitness, then they break down again.

We've had a period where we lost the most PL players to AFCON....a host of which also returned broken. We've had a month of having goalkeeper which don't goalkeep and even managed to claim assists for the opposition.

All of this has been nicely coated with a stench of uncertainty and fear of points deductions. Yes Nuno has had a couple of games where his decisions have been baffling but let's not have collective bouts or amnesia surrounding the overarching hand he's been dealt. Nuno has never had the opportunity to really get something going with consistency or momentum.

AFCON aside, a lot of issues Nuno has had to deal with have been here all season. which is why some of us have been wanting the club to sort itself out before changing managers.

 

[glosterred]

I totally agree.

How he never worked out that Haaland would’ve been a better bet than Origi I’ll never know.

Hopefully he’s learnt his lesson now and we’ll see Pep in the dugout before the season’s over.

I’m with you on this.

Outside of a Pep or Klopp type manager I can’t think of anyone who given a little bit of time, an element of our fan base wouldn’t turn on for some reason or another.

Presumably nobody thinks appointing Cooper was a bad idea? The owner can at least take a bit of kudos for that decision.

Maybe the poster could have added ‘as a club we sack managers poorly‘ to his list….

 

[MC Plantpot]

Three points or less (or is it fewer?) and I think the mood will lift.

I respect people’s perceptions, but I just don’t see that this group of players have no fight. 3 goal line clearances yesterday, Liverpool needing injury time ref support to get a win, United getting an offside decision in the cup, Brighton needing a freak goal. I think the fight is there, just a shame about set pieces really.

 

[Monkman]

It's fewer, because you can count points

I think we'll stay up, and I don't think the players lack fight either - though I'd like a few more of them to look like they care as much as Neco, MGW and Yates.

I do think confidence and belief is draining fast though, unsurprisingly, which is definitely contributing to our inability to get results. I worry that they're losing faith in the manager as they did with Cooper.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

It's fewer, because you can count points

I think we'll stay up, and I don't think the players lack fight either - though I'd like a few more of them to look like they care as much as Neco, MGW and Yates.

I do think confidence and belief is draining fast though, unsurprisingly, which is definitely contributing to our inability to get results. I worry that they're losing faith in the manager as they did with Cooper.

We need minimum two wins from our next four. We've got Palace, Fulham and Wolves at home so it's doable but I think those who still are positive about our chances of staying up are underestimating just how poor the performances have been recently and how teams like Fulham and Wolves will be significantly better than the Luton team we laboured against yesterday.

Anyway if we get those two wins then it might mean just needing four more points with Burnley and Sheff Utd to play still. Both games are away though...

 

[Monkman]

We need minimum two wins from our next four. We've got Palace, Fulham and Wolves at home so it's doable but I think those who still are positive about our chances of staying up are underestimating just how poor the performances have been recently and how teams like Fulham and Wolves will be significantly better than the Luton team we laboured against yesterday.

Anyway if we get those two wins then it might mean just needing four more points with Burnley and Sheff Utd to play still. Both games are away though...

Agree, at the moment you wouldn't put much money on us beating anyone.

Take a couple of steps back though and I think we can see that we have been unlucky with results over the course of 2024 - it's not all been poor performances and dodgy lineups/tactics. There have been some decent performances, we just need a little luck and/or steel to go our way.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Agree, at the moment you wouldn't put much money on us beating anyone.

Take a couple of steps back though and I think we can see that we have been unlucky with results over the course of 2024 - it's not all been poor performances and dodgy lineups/tactics. There have been some decent performances, we just need a little luck and/or steel to go our way.

I get that but performances are getting worse, and I don't trust the squad has the desire to fight a tough relegation run in.

Ultimately it's likely that the verdict tomorrow will be the deciding factor though. I think we're done if it's six. I'll believe we can do it if it's only three or four.

 

[Redemption]

Last season, from GW21 onwards

DWLDLDLLDLLLLWLWDWD

At this point, we were in a deep losing streak.

No one could see how we would survive. Results were bad, performances despairing. Relegation certain.

The combined traction that the media and fans got for a Cooper replacement lead to the club issuing a 2nd backing statement of the season.

 

[MC Plantpot]

Was it about this time last year we blew a 1-0 lead at Brentford in the last 10 minutes, losing 2-1 ?

 

[eyupmeduck]

Felt OK about the point, have to admit that reading more realistic posts on here that the positivity has somewhat diminished, especially when I saw MGW had put the dreaded "We are family stay with us type post" on Instagram.

I do think Nuno has been dealt a rough hand but looked capable of coping when he came in and has had afcon, psr, injuries and other shenanigans to deal with, honestly I don't know if I still feel that he or indeed anyone else would cope with it all in truth.

I think the psr thing has been looming over us and has impacted how we play because we seem desperate for points to "build a gap" but aren't solid enough to hold a lead or concentrate for the full game to play with that mindset.

I do hope we stay up, I think though that this forum has read like the Leeds one from last season and do feel like we might suffer the same fate because we are performing in a similair way, at present we have been a bit lucky in that other teams have been woeful but even they are closing in and we will be deducted points to close the gap more.

If we go down with the 3 promoted teams that came up being as poor as they have been then we can only blame ourselves. In particular acting like we are or should be one of the established Premier league sides has meant that we have made decisions to sell good players to fund "Big name players" sack managers to employ "experienced premier league managers" and have in my opinion lost a bit of our actual identity by trying to masquerade as something that we haven't yet earned the right to be in particular doing stuff like siding with the EPL on stuff like EFL funding. It just looks like every gamble that we have taken has the look of something that will fail.

So in effect I've done a reverse Duck in that usually the despondency makes way for hope over a week or so, now I felt OK but actually feel less OK as time moves on.

My initial aim for this season was to try and be safe but just a bit earlier this time. I think its still possible but its becoming less probable. I think ill be happy to see the back of this season.



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[Monkman]

Was it about this time last year we blew a 1-0 lead at Brentford in the last 10 minutes, losing 2-1 ?

No that was much later, that was after we beat Brighton, ie in the middle of our good run that kept us up.