The "faux grief" bandwagon

[Wes' Organ]

I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?

That line cost my kid brother a thousand kickings

 

[littonlad]

He was a Forest fan, 'nuff said....

 

[JWJW]

I would like to thank JWJW for removing his distasteful post on the day of Mr. Doughty's death. Thank you for having second thoughts.

I did not post anything distasteful and did not remove any post.

I agree with many that the level of hypocracy has been great. Its what you say about people when they are alive that counts, all the retractions and apologies or changing the way you feel after they are dead are very blatent hypocritical acts.

I quote Brian Clough here who said

".......... If you like me then send me flowers when I am alive, not when I am dead.........."

It is very true what the great man said.

I have supported Nigel all the way through his ownership of NFFC, simple as that. That others have not is their choice. I have no regrets about having supported him.

 

[Papa Shango]

I agree with this, too.

Right. Stop putting commas where there is no, need

 

[Anatoli]

Someone post the handbags picture.

It's sad when a young man dies leaving a family behind. It's especially sad when he supported the same team as you.

You don't have to know someone personally to feel that.

It's tragic when he is the one person that has kept the club afloat for more than a decade, we will miss his contribution and not just financially. He did maintain a vision of where he wanted the club to be. I think we are the unluckiest club in the world. Our decline seemed to happen just as all the money was poured into the Premier League and we got left behind. The thing that matters most now, on a footballing level is that we survive this season, another dreadful Forest season.

I have stated elsewhere, I would love to go to Nigel's funeral, just to say thank you. I only once said thank you to him.

 

[garibaldifred]

I did not post anything distasteful and did not remove any post.

I agree with many that the level of hypocracy has been great. Its what you say about people when they are alive that counts, all the retractions and apologies or changing the way you feel after they are dead are very blatent hypocritical acts.

I quote Brian Clough here who said

".......... If you like me then send me flowers when I am alive, not when I am dead.........."

It is very true what the great man said.

I have supported Nigel all the way through his ownership of NFFC, simple as that. That others have not is their choice. I have no regrets about having supported him.

Then why did the moderators remove your post?

 

[Roonaldo]

You can only judge success against why would have happened had the person not tried.

Had Doughty not been there, I'm convinced we would have been the club the example was made out of. We would have gone bust.

With that in mind, I see his time here as very successful.

There's a lot more to what he did here than the 90 minutes of football each week some care about.

You call a £75m debt (and climbing), not a sniff of top flight football, supporters being treated like pondlife, three years in Division 3 &seemingly a one-way ticket back there this August successful?

 

[garibaldifred]

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Garibaldifred I think the mods removed the post you are on about, obviously JW didn't see it as distasteful, but to JW Davies is "obviously" our worst manager ever and Morgan is a "obviously" a terrible defender without Wilson alongside him, and "obviously" the fact that we conceeded 25 goals in 16 games last season matters above everything even the fact that we won most of those games.

Apparently JW has me on his ignore list so he won't see this post, in which case I'll say that a fair few folk have PM'd me over recent months about him and we're all pretty much of the opinion that the guy does have something mentally wrong with him. Not meaning it nasty like, just saying it's something to bare in mind when reading his posts as he does display a lot of behaviour that you can associate with various mental disorders (our lass has a degree in psycology and she agrees).

Thanks Jester.

 

[Rich]

You call a £75m debt (and climbing), not a sniff of top flight football, supporters being treated like pondlife, three years in Division 3 &seemingly a one-way ticket back there this August successful?

Depends on what you wanted.

I'd say it's a lot more successful than not having a team to support. I can't look at the club as purely a team and judge them only on whether they win of a Saturday afternoon or not.

 

[sedgred]

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Garibaldifred I think the mods removed the post you are on about, obviously JW didn't see it as distasteful, but to JW Davies is "obviously" our worst manager ever and Morgan is a "obviously" a terrible defender without Wilson alongside him, and "obviously" the fact that we conceeded 25 goals in 16 games last season matters above everything even the fact that we won most of those games.

Apparently JW has me on his ignore list so he won't see this post, in which case I'll say that a fair few folk have PM'd me over recent months about him and we're all pretty much of the opinion that the guy does have something mentally wrong with him. Not meaning it nasty like, just saying it's something to bare in mind when reading his posts as he does display a lot of behaviour that you can associate with various mental disorders (our lass has a degree in psycology and she agrees).



QUOTE]

Ah has your wife ever told you about the bit in psycology, '' that what you are prepared to write and or say about another person, reflects a great deal of your own character ?''

Just wondered ?

 

[Roonaldo]

Depends on what you wanted.

I'd say it's a lot more successful than not having a team to support. I can't look at the club as purely a team and judge them only on whether they win of a Saturday afternoon or not.

It's not just about the 'winning on a saturday' for me neither fella. As I said, I think we've been treated as mugs by those running the club during ND's reign and the whole place is now rotten to the core in my view. Prior to his death, you too must have noticed how many Forest fans had become completly diesenfrancised with all things NFFC.

In terms of them going bust, loads of clubs could say 'we'd have gone but if...' but none have so I'm afraid I don't share your view that we'd have gone under. No more than we might go under now.

I've no reason to slag the poor fella off personally, as he was clearly a Forest fan with a good heart. howeve,r as an owner he acheived very little, apart from the Academy (which hasn't made that much of a difference since Hart's batch, probably as we're now having to sell them all off now due to the mismanagment!).

My venom is still aimed at that buffoon Arthur and whilst I don't wish him dead, my feelings haven't subsided just because the man that kept him there has passed away.

 

[Rich]

It's not just about the 'winning on a saturday' for me neither fella. As I said, I think we've been treated as mugs by those running the club during ND's reign and the whole place is now rotten to the core in my view. Prior to his death, you too must have noticed how many Forest fans had become completly diesenfrancised with all things NFFC.

In terms of them going bust, loads of clubs could say 'we'd have gone but if...' but none have so I'm afraid I don't share your view that we'd have gone under. No more than we might go under now.

I've no reason to slag the poor fella off personally, as he was clearly a Forest fan with a good heart. howeve,r as an owner he acheived very little, apart from the Academy (which hasn't made that much of a difference since Hart's batch, probably as we're now having to sell them all off now due to the mismanagment!).

My venom is still aimed at that buffoon Arthur and whilst I don't wish him dead, my feelings haven't subsided just because the man that kept him there has passed away.

I noticed a number of fans misappropriate, in my opinion, their rage at results. I noticed a great number of things, to be honest, many of which were denied such as the 'Doughty Out' singing at the protest.

Personally, I like to look at achievements off the field, and if you struggle to see them, then I'd question whether you're actually looking beyond the game on a Saturday afternoon or not. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if you're discontent with results, look to who is influencing them.

For me, keeping the club solvent while paying the local businesses that were reliant on monies from the club is a far more important thing than being in the Premierleague.

 

[Mr Jester]

Ah has your wife ever told you about the bit in psycology, '' that what you are prepared to write and or say about another person, reflects a great deal of your own character ?''

Just wondered ?

Wife???? She cooks my snap and sucks my nob, but we're not THAT close yet!

Yeah she sez some stuff sometimes, but I'm usually think about football, sex, beer or music.

 

[SLM92NF]

Depends on what you wanted.

I'd say it's a lot more successful than not having a team to support. I can't look at the club as purely a team and judge them only on whether they win of a Saturday afternoon or not.

If the debt is asked to be repaid he has left the club exactly where it was when he first came in on the pitch and a lot more worse off than it was off the pitch! I think in terms of behind the scenes whether he was successful or not entirely depends on the repaying or not repaying of his loan.

 

[woodfordred]

If the debt is asked to be repaid he has left the club exactly where it was when he first came in on the pitch and a lot more worse off than it was off the pitch! I think in terms of behind the scenes whether he was successful or not entirely depends on the repaying or not repaying of his loan.

Stop going on about the loan! When the holder of all the equity is the same as the only lender, it just doesn't matter!
I think I once suggested here or somewhere else that ND should convert most of his debt to equity (shares) because to him (or his estate), it makes no difference!

Put it this way, if someone comes along tomorrow and says to the Doughty family "I'll buy the club for £50m", they are not going to say "oooh, but what about the other £25m"? That would indeed be a shot in the foot. The debt is quasi-equity, ND said himself he didnt expect to see it back, what more do you need to know??

 

[sedgred]

Wife???? She cooks my snap and sucks my nob, but we're not THAT close yet!

Yeah she sez some stuff sometimes, but I'm usually think about football, sex, beer or music.

Ah another example of cream always rising to the top !

 

[JWJW]

Then why did the moderators remove your post?

Nothing has been removed.

Are you imagining it ? or just trying to create a fantasy in which I had posts removed. I have checked, all my posts are there.

 

[Mr Jester]

Ah another example of cream always rising to the top !

Oh yes!

Nothing has been removed.

Are you imagining it ? or just trying to create a fantasy in which I had posts removed. I have checked, all my posts are there.

Don't worry Garibaldifred, your not losing it and we all saw it - he'll do this for a while so best way to get rid is question him back as he rarely answers and questions you put to him. Like I say previously, just bare in mind that he's not all there so don't let it wind you up if things aren't making any sense!

 

[Rowntree]

I noticed a number of fans misappropriate, in my opinion, their rage at results. I noticed a great number of things, to be honest, many of which were denied such as the 'Doughty Out' singing at the protest.

Personally, I like to look at achievements off the field, and if you struggle to see them, then I'd question whether you're actually looking beyond the game on a Saturday afternoon or not. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if you're discontent with results, look to who is influencing them.

For me, keeping the club solvent while paying the local businesses that were reliant on monies from the club is a far more important thing than being in the Premierleague.

Keeping the club solvent? Having the club completely reliant on one man to keep it afloat isn't my idea of keeping it solvent. We have barely achieved anything on or off the pitch over the last dozen or so years either. We're all sad that ND is dead but since he died people are just making stuff up. It's turned into bloody silly season.

 

[Rowntree]

Oh yes!




Don't worry Garibaldifred, your not losing it and we all saw it - he'll do this for a while so best way to get rid is question him back as he rarely answers and questions you put to him. Like I say previously, just bare in mind that he's not all there so don't let it wind you up if things aren't making any sense!

I doubt if he even realises what you're talking about.

 

[Rich]

Stop going on about the loan! When the holder of all the equity is the same as the only lender, it just doesn't matter!
I think I once suggested here or somewhere else that ND should convert most of his debt to equity (shares) because to him (or his estate), it makes no difference!

Put it this way, if someone comes along tomorrow and says to the Doughty family "I'll buy the club for £50m", they are not going to say "oooh, but what about the other £25m"? That would indeed be a shot in the foot. The debt is quasi-equity, ND said himself he didnt expect to see it back, what more do you need to know??

That's not entirely how the law works, though. The club is a separate legal entity, and the loans are held against a debenture. The creditors, in this case now the Doughty Estate, are separate from the limited company through the veil of incorporation.

The veil can only be lifted in certain circumstance, such as where fraud is evident.

I think it's Saloman v Saloman that deals with this, though I'll wait to be corrected by Chap for a better case!

 

[woodfordred]

That's not entirely how the law works, though. The club is a separate legal entity, and the loans are held against a debenture. The creditors, in this case now the Doughty Estate, are separate from the limited company through the veil of incorporation.

The veil can only be lifted in certain circumstance, such as where fraud is evident.

I think it's Saloman v Saloman that deals with this, though I'll wait to be corrected by Chap for a better case!

Of course, as a general rule creditors and shareholders are different and are frequently in conflict.

But the Forest situation couldn't be simpler. If someone wants to buy it for under £75m and they want the loans written off in exchange for 30 pigs dicks that can all happen in 5 minutes in a solicitors office. The loans are in no way an impediment to a disposal. If you can, paint a scenario in which they are.

I don't think that the beneficiaries will be in a mad hurry, because whether its legally binding or not, they are morally obliged to realise ND's wishes to fund the club in the short term. However, they will be keen to stop or reduce the drain of cash into Forest, and if that means selling, I think they will. I think their problem will be that they will feel obligated to find the 'right' sort of 'responsible' owner or consortium, and that may be difficult and take time. But I cannot see a situation where ND's beneficiaries as loan holders are in conflict with ND's beneficiaries as shareholders. We are looking for problems which probably aren't there. The main problem is finding anyone interested in taking on a black hole with a tempestuous minority in the fanbase. I think ND did appoint advisors a couple of months back, didn't he?

 

[incapable hulk]

I did not post anything distasteful and did not remove any post.

I agree with many that the level of hypocracy has been great. Its what you say about people when they are alive that counts, all the retractions and apologies or changing the way you feel after they are dead are very blatent hypocritical acts.

I quote Brian Clough here who said

".......... If you like me then send me flowers when I am alive, not when I am dead.........."

It is very true what the great man said.

I have supported Nigel all the way through his ownership of NFFC, simple as that. That others have not is their choice. I have no regrets about having supported him.

:facepalm:

 

[sedgred]

I did not post anything distasteful and did not remove any post.

I agree with many that the level of hypocracy has been great. Its what you say about people when they are alive that counts, all the retractions and apologies or changing the way you feel after they are dead are very blatent hypocritical acts.

I quote Brian Clough here who said

".......... If you like me then send me flowers when I am alive, not when I am dead.........."

It is very true what the great man said.

I have supported Nigel all the way through his ownership of NFFC, simple as that. That others have not is their choice. I have no regrets about having supported him.

JWJW I fully understand what and why you said this !. For those wishing to lambast him, please remember he is not pointing a finger at any individual, just making a statement.

 

[Rich]

Of course, as a general rule creditors and shareholders are different and are frequently in conflict.

But the Forest situation couldn't be simpler. If someone wants to buy it for under £75m and they want the loans written off in exchange for 30 pigs dicks that can all happen in 5 minutes in a solicitors office. The loans are in no way an impediment to a disposal. If you can, paint a scenario in which they are.

I don't think that the beneficiaries will be in a mad hurry, because whether its legally binding or not, they are morally obliged to realise ND's wishes to fund the club in the short term. However, they will be keen to stop or reduce the drain of cash into Forest, and if that means selling, I think they will. I think their problem will be that they will feel obligated to find the 'right' sort of 'responsible' owner or consortium, and that may be difficult and take time. But I cannot see a situation where ND's beneficiaries as loan holders are in conflict with ND's beneficiaries as shareholders. We are looking for problems which probably aren't there. The main problem is finding anyone interested in taking on a black hole with a tempestuous minority in the fanbase. I think ND did appoint advisors a couple of months back, didn't he?

I think you're mistaking my position. I'm not saying that the Doughty Estate will move for repayment of the loans, merely that they could.

The accounts show that the repayment date has been pushed back a year each year, I don't think they'll change that, but again, they could.

I read your post as though you inferred that because the debenture is held by the same persons as the de facto owner that they wouldn't be able to enforce the debt, which is not true. The company exists in it's own right - hence the reference to SvS.

The loans may only become an impediment to disposal if the Doughty Esate hang out for full repayment, but of course that's never been anything more than a fanciful possibility. Nigel stated that he didn't want repayment, he stated that it was community investment, and he stated that he would continue to support for the club for a set period of time. These promises aren't binding, though, as they lack consideration for himself, however, they are likely to indicate the path that his estate will follow.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, he could have made provisions in his will, or he could have left instruction for the break up of the club. That's something we won't know for a while.

Ultimately, the biggest concern isn't for the club, it's for his family. Whatever happens here will happen. I'm not keen on painting a picture of Nigel Doughty that in any way interprets him gaining from this club financially.