The "faux grief" bandwagon

[DEANFOREST]

I think you're mistaking my position. I'm not saying that the Doughty Estate will move for repayment of the loans, merely that they could.

The accounts show that the repayment date has been pushed back a year each year, I don't think they'll change that, but again, they could.I read your post as though you inferred that because the debenture is held by the same persons as the de facto owner that they wouldn't be able to enforce the debt, which is not true. The company exists in it's own right - hence the reference to SvS.

The loans may only become an impediment to disposal if the Doughty Esate hang out for full repayment, but of course that's never been anything more than a fanciful possibility. Nigel stated that he didn't want repayment, he stated that it was community investment, and he stated that he would continue to support for the club for a set period of time. These promises aren't binding, though, as they lack consideration for himself, however, they are likely to indicate the path that his estate will follow.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, he could have made provisions in his will, or he could have left instruction for the break up of the club. That's something we won't know for a while.

Ultimately, the biggest concern isn't for the club, it's for his family. Whatever happens here will happen. I'm not keen on painting a picture of Nigel Doughty that in any way interprets him gaining from this club financially.

Do you personally believe that the repayment date will continually be put back annually? or will they want to see some sort of return,if only token payments?,I suppose we'll never know N. D .'s true intentions

 

[Mr Jester]

JWJW I fully understand what and why you said this !. For those wishing to lambast him, please remember he is not pointing a finger at any individual, just making a statement.

But no-one has retracted any statements? All anyone has done is wish Nigel's family well and tried to act dignified - something which we should be proud of as Forest fans. The fact that we all put politics to one side so swiftly so that others may mourn someone's loss shows just how head and shoulders the quality of posters are on this board compared to others.

It's like me stating "And all those who apologized for wanking off Mark Arthurs dog should hang their heads in shame" - it never happened.

What DID happen however was JW posting a very distasteful post at a bad time, which was then removed by the mods. Even though he denies this it did happen and many witnessed it. I'm not trying to lay any blame on him, I'm just straightening the facts out - you can make your own mind up from there.

 

[congo_red_49]

I think you're mistaking my position. I'm not saying that the Doughty Estate will move for repayment of the loans, merely that they could.

Indeed. There's so many different scenrios here, with all the unknowns, that to list them all out could take days.

A lot depends on exactly what was in Doughty's will, he could have left the club to an individual, or even broke it down into an infinite number of smaller shareholders, ditto for the 'loan' or even handed it over lock stock and barrel to an individual who may, or may not, be a member of his family.

The only scenario that I can definetly rule out is that the club was passed to Michael Doughty, as this would break all manner of FA rules.

 

[FBS]

The only scenario that I can definetly rule out is that the club was passed to Michael Doughty, as this would break all manner of FA rules.

What is the ruling on if Michael does have it passed to him and he decides to quit playing football and takes up the chairman job fulltime?

 

[Rich]

Do you personally believe that the repayment date will continually be put back annually? or will they want to see some sort of return,if only token payments?,I suppose we'll never know N. D .'s true intentions

I think, honestly, that the family will appoint someone to work between the family and the club, continue puching the lona back, and honour the money Nigel pledged.

Beyond that, I think they'll want out. I just can't see them not honouring what he was doing.

I hope so, anyway.

 

[Mr Jester]

Indeed. There's so many different scenrios here, with all the unknowns, that to list them all out could take days.

A lot depends on exactly what was in Doughty's will, he could have left the club to an individual, or even broke it down into an infinite number of smaller shareholders, ditto for the 'loan' or even handed it over lock stock and barrel to an individual who may, or may not, be a member of his family.

The only scenario that I can definetly rule out is that the club was passed to Michael Doughty, as this would break all manner of FA rules.

Any idea if this has happened before Congo, and what that outcome was? (not saying ours would be the same, just be interesting to make a comparison)

 

[congo_red_49]

What is the ruling on if Michael does have it passed to him and he decides to quit playing football and takes up the chairman job fulltime?

Then that would be fine, as there is no conflict of interest. Of course, QPR might have something to say about him breaching his contract with them.

 

[congo_red_49]

Any idea if this has happened before Congo, and what that outcome was? (not saying ours would be the same, just be interesting to make a comparison)

The only one in my memory was when Blackburn owner Jack Walker died. His decision was to leave the club to a company called BRFC investments, which was run by trustees on behalf of various members of his family, who were shareholders. Those trustees recently, of course, chose to sell up and the profits were divided amongst the shareholders.

 

[Mr Jester]

The only one in my memory was when Blackburn owner Jack Walker died. His decision was to leave the club to a company called BRFC investments, which was run by trustees on behalf of various members of his family, who were shareholders. Those trustees recently, of course, chose to sell up and the profits were divided amongst the shareholders.

Cheers mate, couldn't think of any!

 

[SLM92NF]

Of course, as a general rule creditors and shareholders are different and are frequently in conflict.

But the Forest situation couldn't be simpler. If someone wants to buy it for under £75m and they want the loans written off in exchange for 30 pigs dicks that can all happen in 5 minutes in a solicitors office. The loans are in no way an impediment to a disposal. If you can, paint a scenario in which they are.

I don't think that the beneficiaries will be in a mad hurry, because whether its legally binding or not, they are morally obliged to realise ND's wishes to fund the club in the short term. However, they will be keen to stop or reduce the drain of cash into Forest, and if that means selling, I think they will. I think their problem will be that they will feel obligated to find the 'right' sort of 'responsible' owner or consortium, and that may be difficult and take time. But I cannot see a situation where ND's beneficiaries as loan holders are in conflict with ND's beneficiaries as shareholders. We are looking for problems which probably aren't there. The main problem is finding anyone interested in taking on a black hole with a tempestuous minority in the fanbase. I think ND did appoint advisors a couple of months back, didn't he?

Morals don't make it a gurantee. The accounts state in no uncertain terms the outstanding loan to Doughty is expected to be repaid in 2014. Whilst we all "knew" that Doughty himself was going to write the debt off.

But now that is uncertain it does depend on who takes over and inherits the estate. There may be a moral obligation to write the debt off but that doesn't necessarily mean that is going to happen. Unless a will states all debts from Nottingham Forest are written off or to be written off we just do not know.

If we are to expect it will be a family member who inherits the club think of all the personal abuse that Doughty recieved before his death. Now if you're family member had died and spent some time in his last months recieving horrible and probably upsetting abuse would you be willing to do those people a favour which in essence is what it would be?

For me until there is statement outlining whats going on or a new buyer comes in with some much needed money I think there is no financial security.

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

Can I stop crying yet?