Scousers at it again

Tutts

Tutts

Ian Bowyer
puds1970 said:
God forbid if the shoe was on the other foot and the Forest fans were in the Leppings lane end that day and it was us mourning the loss. I'm sure some would see this in a different light.
There are things in life that our opinion simply doesn't matter and this is one such example.
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We'd be calling for Cloughie to be knighted.

Oh wait....

For the record, I was at the Arsenal v Liverpool game today and both sets of fans were exemplary in their observation of the minutes silence.


though the calls for Kenny to be knighted are an absolute joke.
 
Anatoli

Anatoli

Stuart Pearce
I liked the Hillsborough fruit machine.
Live-Die-Live.

I may have gone too far, but I am enjoying it. Read my book, people dying at a football game is nothing compared to what happened then, during WW1. Read Zamoyski's account of 1812, it makes you sit back and wonder how men could endure these things. There is no point in debating Hillsborough, we do it every six months. Those people will remain dead whatever we say.

I hate it every time we start singing about bloody Derby whilst playing Norwich or Reading. It has got to the point that I am offended by it. We beat 40 clubs in a season and just brag about Derby. I could not care f***ing less about Derby. I hate Crawley town more than I hate Derby. I live nowhere near Derby and they do not enter into my sphere of existence.
 
T

The_City_Is_Ours

Viv Anderson
TheDude said:
Well i think it goes without saying that no one feels anything but sadness for anyone losing their life on that day. Like they from liverpool should do, try and lay them to rest and carry on, like many others have in similar situations. It's more the ones that you see running across Heysel stadium and storming the gates at Athens that i think of, in my above comments.
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That's the way I look at things. All of those harping on about Hillsborough don't give out the same calls for remembrance or justice when it comes to the anniversary of Heysel.
 
Le Juif Rouge

Le Juif Rouge

Senior Mass Debater
The_City_Is_Ours said:
That's the way I look at things. All of those harping on about Hillsborough don't give out the same calls for remembrance or justice when it comes to the anniversary of Heysel.
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That is exactly it mate - by hyping up Hillsborough every year they trying to conveniently erase Heysel from everyone's memory.
 
J

JoeBaker

First Team Squad
I have every sympathy for your loss Mrs Aspinall but nobody is asking for a return of terracing & as for your comment

"We will never ever want standing ever again,"

as said in another thread Liverpools fans on the Kop do it all the time

as said every sympathy for her loss but she is making completely misleading statements
 
Strummer

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Col said:
Can he play left back?
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He's not very mobile, so would probably make a better Centre Half.
 
Ashrams

Ashrams

Viv Anderson
Anatoli said:
I liked the Hillsborough fruit machine.
Live-Die-Live.

I may have gone too far, but I am enjoying it. Read my book, people dying at a football game is nothing compared to what happened then, during WW1. Read Zamoyski's account of 1812, it makes you sit back and wonder how men could endure these things. There is no point in debating Hillsborough, we do it every six months. Those people will remain dead whatever we say.

I hate it every time we start singing about bloody Derby whilst playing Norwich or Reading. It has got to the point that I am offended by it. We beat 40 clubs in a season and just brag about Derby. I could not care f***ing less about Derby. I hate Crawley town more than I hate Derby. I live nowhere near Derby and they do not enter into my sphere of existence.
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I thought the title of your novel was called: people dying at a football game, it wouldnt have surprised me. i know ur part of the establishment on here but i thought the Hillsborough fruit machine jibe was at best ill considered. i know my opinion probably counts for fook all on here but i felt i had to say that.
 
T

the mask of zorro

Geoff Thomas
My daughter is doing GCSE Drama, her teacher (who is someone I know) attended the Liverpool performing arts academy. For her main GCSE work, the class had to do a piece on Hillsborough. I saw the teacher out one night, and she was telling me that they were doing this piece of work, and I said "I was there, perhaps you would like my input" her reply? "I'd better not ask your views on it."

Just before my daughter had to write her piece, she said the teacher was really getting into the full blame culture of the tragedy bit, and made them watch Jimmy McGovern's 'Hillsborough'.

I came home one night, and my daughter was at the computer, she said "I've been looking everywhere for this information about the Sun and Liverpool fans, and I can't find what I'm looking for, and neither can my friends" so I said what are you looking for and she said "well C has told us to start the play with the court case when the Liverpool fans took The Sun to court". No wonder she couldn't find it.

I had to let my daughter do what she had to do, but fortunately the class realised that the teacher had been effectively brainwashed by living in Scouseland.

And the finale? When she had finished and performed the play, I asked my daughter to ask her teacher's views on Heysel, guess what, she didn't know what it was!
 
S

sedgred

Banned
the mask of zorro said:
My daughter is doing GCSE Drama, her teacher (who is someone I know) attended the Liverpool performing arts academy. For her main GCSE work, the class had to do a piece on Hillsborough. I saw the teacher out one night, and she was telling me that they were doing this piece of work, and I said "I was there, perhaps you would like my input" her reply? "I'd better not ask your views on it."

Just before my daughter had to write her piece, she said the teacher was really getting into the full blame culture of the tragedy bit, and made them watch Jimmy McGovern's 'Hillsborough'.

I came home one night, and my daughter was at the computer, she said "I've been looking everywhere for this information about the Sun and Liverpool fans, and I can't find what I'm looking for, and neither can my friends" so I said what are you looking for and she said "well C has told us to start the play with the court case when the Liverpool fans took The Sun to court". No wonder she couldn't find it.

I had to let my daughter do what she had to do, but fortunately the class realised that the teacher had been effectively brainwashed by living in Scouseland.

And the finale? When she had finished and performed the play, I asked my daughter to ask her teacher's views on Heysel, guess what, she didn't know what it was!
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Similar event but far more balanced, when visiting my daughters school, topic for discussion in one class......can you remember where you were on the day of the Hilsborough tragedy ?, several parents gave their locations, when it came to my turn, despite my long suffering wife nudging my arm, I told them watching it unfold standing on the terraces at Hilsborough........pin drop or what !

I must say the class and teacher were or seemed pleased to hear my version of events from a Forest fans view point, as the teacher did point out, those at our end witnessed the dreadful scenes, carry the images in our heads and the behaviour of the Forest fans on the day was beyond reproach....yet we are almost forgotten bit players.
 
C

clusternakker

Guest
from what i saw, the sun got it right with their initial headline, 'scum'
 
C

clusternakker

Guest
Ashrams said:
of course they did. im sure the parents, siblings, relatives and friends of those poor souls really thought of their dead loved ones as "scum.":confused:
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they will no doubt be trying to blame anyone but their fellow fans.
 
C

clusternakker

Guest
the scouse seem more bothered about finding someone to blame..
 
S

sedgred

Banned
Ashrams said:
of course they did. im sure the parents, siblings, relatives and friends of those poor souls really thought of their dead loved ones as "scum.":confused:
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Word to the wise Ash. Hot water you are dipping your toes into.

Those of who, witnessed the scenes at Hilsborough that dreadful afternoon, would be creatures from the lowest depths, if we somehow could not sympathise or indeed have empathy with those who lost their loved one's.

I stood on the Kop longside my father, brother, Uncle two cousins and several pals. I imagine thses groups were replicated at the other end, so you don't have to be brain of britain to even begin to image the truama the innocent fans suffered, or what the families are going through.

Birthdays, family celebrations etc, each will somehow be that that incomplete without that loved one who went to a football match on a sunny April afternoon and failed to return. So I think to imagine that none of us with strong opinions on the day have little or no feelings for the innocent victims of Hilsborough is some what insulting. Without wearing my heart on my sleeve, what I witnessed that day is still seared into mind, If you want recall, you can have it, but read Alex's Account ( Flagman ), sums up the feelings so many of us have.

The anger still bubbles though, at the cause, Liverpool fans who's behaviour at the time was dominated by many of the scum type fans they had, they were known for pressurising the entrances to try and gain entrance for ticketless fans..............even a handful within a crowd could create problems.

The problem many of us have is the whiter than white attitude of some scouse fans to that day and the constant cry for justice, maybe they would be taken seriously by other fans, if they take their own previous poor behaviour into account. But to accept that on this particular day, they were all happy jolly scousers without a care in the world, herded by those nasty police man and stewards to the tragic outcome, without acknowledgement of any scouse fans misbehaviour, leaves a very sour taste to those who were unfortunate enough to be there on that day.

One would have to be a complete air head to portion 100% blame on the scousers, the Police and stewarding must have been poor to allow this build up to happen. But what often goes unmentioned and if you ever see some of the dreadful footage of the events, is that as injured, dead and dying fans were being bought onto the pitch, the South Yorks Police had to take men from rescue duties to form a barrier/line of coppers on the half way line, to stop fans on the pitch running down to taunt the opposition fans.

They were not Forest fans running on the pitch, they were some of these wonderfully well behaved lovable scouse scally's.......so if some on here describe some Liverpool fans as scum, that behaviour alone justifies that description.
 
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congo_red_49

congo_red_49

Ale Ape
sedgred said:
One would have to be a complete air head to portion 100% blame on the scousers, the Police and stewarding must have been poor to allow this build up to happen.
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As understand it - at the time of the tragedy, the Stewarding would actually have been considered 'good' by the standards they were working to and only 'poor' in hindsight. Stewards at the time were employed with just one job objective - "Do not let people on the pitch". They were not employed to ensure the safety of fans, as they are today. So thankfully, lessons have been learned from that.

I too, don't agree with the cries for 'justice' or for people to be made scapegoats. The stewards and the Police were just doing what they were told to do and I'm sure the deaths rest as heavy on their conscience as with the fans of both teams who were there. To further punish them now, would not only be a futile exercise, it would also be completely inappropriate.
 
J

JoeBaker

First Team Squad
sedgred said:
. But what often goes unmentioned and if you ever see some of the dreadful footage of the events, is that as injured, dead and dying fans were being bought onto the pitch, the South Yorks Police had to take men from rescue duties to form a barrier/line of coppers on the half way line, to stop fans on the pitch running down to taunt the opposition fans.

They were not Forest fans running on the pitch, they were some of these wonderfully well behaved lovable scouse scally's.......so if some on here describe some Liverpool fans as scum, that behaviour alone justifies that description.
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In fairness to some Liverpool fans some Forest were singing your just a load of wankers before that initial charge by them. I should know as I was one of them but in fairness we had no idea at the time what was happening at that end, it did initially just look like a pitch invasion plus my emotions initially were blinded by what had happened to me outside with some of their thug fans. When we realised just what was happening any chanting soon stopped & complete silence fell on our end. Horrible day, I was stuck in the corner so was literally yards away from some of the dead bodies which were waiting to be carried into the makeshift morgue. First time in my life I have ever seen somebody dead, horrible memory & you would really have to be some right heartless bastard not to feel compassion. However that still doesn't escape from the fact that a minority of Liverpool fans have to take some responsibility for what happened.
 
Ashrams

Ashrams

Viv Anderson
clusternakker said:
from what i saw, the sun got it right with their initial headline, 'scum'
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it was this post that i thought was a little out of order thats all. though i am not singling cluster out here as i still think some things i have seen on here and elsewhere are also ill considered. i stand by that. it is true i wasnt there and Sedge your post was very eloquent to this regard.
the point i was trying to make is that while there will always be those who seek to apportion blame and bang a particular drum to the wrong beat or for too long, it must be remembered that a lot of innocents died that day and labelling the "scouse" as "scum" could be seen as an all inclusive tag that i dont think is warranted.
 
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