Marcus [S]McGuane[/S] McGone

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I have a serious question: he came to us as a potential wonder-kid.
How come we have to farm him out?
Other clubs seem able to bring young lads like this into their first teams regularly.
So why can't we?

Coz our "wonderkids" are usually shit

OK, not shit, but usually in need of several years developing before being anywhere near to contribute to a first team level.

Have any of our "young potentially world beaters" signings actually worked in recent years?

Akpom, Zach Clough, Carvalho, Semedo, Muric etc. I'm struggling to remember any which did? :dunno: All failed by my recolection?

Cash, Worrall, Reid, Dawson etc. The real wonderkids come from our own academy, because they get to develop at a far more natural pace, and usually give 100x more of a f*** about the club & area.

 

[Larry Lansbury]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I think the wonder-kid tag was a teenage thing. I think he's come to us as someone who isn't going to be an England star like he was hyped to be as a teenager, but has a lot of raw talent that needs nurturing.

I think he needs the limelight taken off him, and the pressure too, cos if we expect him to walk into outside because of his pedigree, it'll lead to disappointment.

I think this loan move is absolutely perfect for him and is career. Oxford play good stuff, encourage their players to express themselves and have a good reputation for developing talent.

Slight disappointed that he’s not nudging first team- but I understand loan and seems good move to get him games, adjusted to English game again. I wonder if there is a clause- that we can recall in jan if we need him or if he excels.

 

[Ravi]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I have a serious question: he came to us as a potential wonder-kid.
How come we have to farm him out?
Other clubs seem able to bring young lads like this into their first teams regularly.
So why can't we?

If he was still a wonder kid at Barcelona he certainly wouldn't have come to a middling second tier club would he? Having said that, he clearly has potential otherwise he wouldn't have been there.

Clearly he needs games and experience to see if he can get up to the standard required.

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[lard]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I have a serious question: he came to us as a potential wonder-kid.
How come we have to farm him out?
Other clubs seem able to bring young lads like this into their first teams regularly.
So why can't we?

He clearly isn't ready or he would be around the first team, He won't get game time at Forest so a loan is perfect just like Worrall going to Rangers or Yates at Scunthorpe its all about experience which they both came back better players and into the first team.
Loans are good when our players are getting regular game time.

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[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I think the real stickler with McGuane's signing, is why were we wasting time scouting, negotiating & signing a kid to play for us in a few years, when we were desperately in need of now-players to bolster our squad mid playoff push, so that we didn't drop out of the playoffs on goal difference.

Ryan Woods goes to Millwall on loan for the rest of the season, we've got our eyes on the ball in another park in 2 seasons time.

It's a prime example of why all last year's effort & brilliance ultimately amounted to nothing.

 

[Ravi]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I think the real stickler with McGuane's signing, is why were we wasting time scouting, negotiating & signing a kid to play for us in a few years, when we were desperately in need of now-players to bolster our squad mid playoff push, so that we didn't drop out of the playoffs on goal difference.

Ryan Woods goes to Millwall on loan for the rest of the season, we've got our eyes on the ball in another park in 2 seasons time.

It's a prime example of why all last year's effort & brilliance ultimately amounted to nothing.

Wasting time signing players like Cash you mean?

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[BryanRoy]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Very comparable to Josh Da Silva. Similar age and almost similar style. Marcus was more highly rated. Brentford's environment allows for development. I reckon he could easily go there and get into their team.

But if he isn't going to be in our first choice 6/7 mids then this is the best move for all parties.

Some good words from Robinson.

“He can be just about anything he wants to be”, Robinson told the United website.

“He is still very young but what a journey to have been on even at his age.

“He can play a defensive role or as more of an attacking midfielder and we can’t wait to work with him.”

 

[Otis Redding]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Good move for the lad. Gary Brazil was evidently very influential in bringing him here, but he was unfortunate to be caught in limbo due to a delay in the authorities processing his international clearance, meaning he was unable to get gametime in Chris Cohen's side, and then the lockdown came along.

A chance to get regular competitive action with a decent club for the next few months can hopefully be beneficial for all parties.

 

[Larry Lansbury]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I think the real stickler with McGuane's signing, is why were we wasting time scouting, negotiating & signing a kid to play for us in a few years, when we were desperately in need of now-players to bolster our squad mid playoff push, so that we didn't drop out of the playoffs on goal difference.

Ryan Woods goes to Millwall on loan for the rest of the season, we've got our eyes on the ball in another park in 2 seasons time.

It's a prime example of why all last year's effort & brilliance ultimately amounted to nothing.

It’s about balance- looking at short term and long term aims of club. Yes we didn’t get it right in jan but doesn’t mean this was a result of all scouts, recruitment team, coaches etc not having enough time in jam to look at potential first team players because they were all focused on getting McGuane in!

 

[Otis Redding]

Re: Marcus McGuane

It’s about balance- looking at short term and long term aims of club. Yes we didn’t get it right in jan but doesn’t mean this was a result of all scouts, recruitment team, coaches etc not having enough time in jam to look at potential first team players because they were all focused on getting McGuane in!

You should know the rules by now LL. Someone has to be culpable even if there's nothing to be culpable for!

 

[Heffing Psycho!]

Re: Marcus McGuane

No issue with him going on loan. Hasn't been in the English football system for a few years so a 40 odd game season in League One will do him good at his age. Ryan Yates should've had the same last season.

 

[BryanRoy]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Yates is 23 with many games behind him. It was right for him to stay and quite clearly a player Sabri likes, Heff.

I actually think he was 1 of our most consistent players post lockdown. Easy player to beat with a stick for me. Cash & Worrall have had it too in the past. So did Osborn. All have hopefully knocked back the doubters.

 

[BryanRoy]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I think the real stickler with McGuane's signing, is why were we wasting time scouting, negotiating & signing a kid to play for us in a few years, when we were desperately in need of now-players to bolster our squad mid playoff push, so that we didn't drop out of the playoffs on goal difference.

Ryan Woods goes to Millwall on loan for the rest of the season, we've got our eyes on the ball in another park in 2 seasons time.

It's a prime example of why all last year's effort & brilliance ultimately amounted to nothing.

Signing a player like this was never going to hurt what we added in Jan, Alf.

In fact he is the sort of player we should be looking at to add more of. Maybe a little younger but there definitely seems a case that academy recruitment has been positively more aggressive this summer which is good to see. But we need more investment.

 

[Ashley]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Yates is 23 with many games behind him. It was right for him to stay and quite clearly a player Sabri likes, Heff.

I actually think he was 1 of our most consistent players post lockdown. Easy player to beat with a stick for me. Cash & Worrall have had it too in the past. So did Osborn. All have hopefully knocked back the doubters.

I think Yates has his limitations and shouldn't be a regular in the starting XI in the coming season, but I don't think he's as bad as some people make out and had some good games for us last season. A good player to have in the squad, great attitude and doesn't cost us much. And certainly much better than shite like Alfa Semedo.

 

[Heffing Psycho!]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Yates is 23 with many games behind him. It was right for him to stay and quite clearly a player Sabri likes, Heff.

I actually think he was 1 of our most consistent players post lockdown. Easy player to beat with a stick for me. Cash & Worrall have had it too in the past. So did Osborn. All have hopefully knocked back the doubters.

Meant the season before last, 18/19 where he didn't play for the entire first half of the season, my bad! Getting confused with the constant stream of football.

He was fantastic after lockdown this season just gone.

 

[BryanRoy]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Meant the season before last, 18/19 where he didn't play for the entire first half of the season, my bad! Getting confused with the constant stream of football.

He was fantastic after lockdown this season just gone.

That is fair enough mate. I was recently thinking back too when was Karanka with us etc So much has happened it is tough to think back.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Re: Marcus McGuane

I have a serious question: he came to us as a potential wonder-kid.

He came to Forest age 20? 21? on a free transfer. Perhaps he used to be defined as a wonder kid but now he's an adult who's got to show very quickly whether he can make it in the upper flights of football.

This loan will be good for him. If it works out, who knows we may recall in January.

 

[Matt]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Great loan for him, IMO. All of our current first team academy grads have had a similar experience - Worrall at Rangers, Cash at Dagenham, Yates at Notts/Scunny.

I was hoping to see Jake Taylor go to Oxford - although I hear Lincoln are interested in him, which would be a great move too.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Wasting time signing players like Cash you mean?

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It’s about balance- looking at short term and long term aims of club. Yes we didn’t get it right in jan but doesn’t mean this was a result of all scouts, recruitment team, coaches etc not having enough time in jam to look at potential first team players because they were all focused on getting McGuane in!

Very comparable to Josh Da Silva. Similar age and almost similar style. Marcus was more highly rated. Brentford's environment allows for development. I reckon he could easily go there and get into their team.

But if he isn't going to be in our first choice 6/7 mids then this is the best move for all parties.

Some good words from Robinson.

Personally I think all our energies in the January window are better spent focused on the players we need for that season there & then.

McGuane could be the next Cash in 5 years, but that won't count for anything if we don't support him with the players he needs that season to make it count, and are focused on chasing the next Cash again then.

Someone's got to spend the time scouting, networking, negotiating etc. for these players. Focus that time elsewhere and we may have landed better players than the likes of Diakhaby & Bong to get us up.

Future signings keep us chasing the future. By all means make them, but nail the core signings we need first.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Re: Marcus McGuane

(would edit the above post, but it won't let me)

Simply put, if McGuane comes good, I'd sooner we signed players who supported that in the season he does so, than sign someone else who'll be good in 5 years, and flog him to fund some of the time involved getting there.

It's part of the cycle of failure which keeps us stuck where we are. At some point you have to look at a strong squad, stop building for the future, and grab your chance.

 

[McKenzie]

Re: Marcus McGuane

We will have scouts for the U23s and scouts for the main squad. I don't think one effects the other.

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Great loan for him, IMO. All of our current first team academy grads have had a similar experience - Worrall at Rangers, Cash at Dagenham, Yates at Notts/Scunny.

I was hoping to see Jake Taylor go to Oxford - although I hear Lincoln are interested in him, which would be a great move too.

Completely agree.

I love seeing our young lads who aren't going to be playing go out on loan. I think the importance on what clubs they go to needs to be tightened though.

On the face of it, for instance, I thought Richardson's loan to Exeter would be ideal. Turns out they played him at LB/LWB. Wont hurt him to learn something new out of shape, but he'd have best benefitted from a season at RB/RWB.

McGuane's loan to Oxford is just perfect for him and his style. He'll really impress there imo.

Taylor to Lincoln could work well. Although I don't think they'll go for him as they've got Grant and signed McGrandles. Rochdale could be a good move. They back young lads and they've just lost an important CM/AM in Callum Camps, so that space is there for him to go into.

It's key we identify teams who have systems and space for our young lads to play. They shouldn't expect to walk into teams, they've got to earn it, but the vision needs to exist for them to do so.

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

Re: Marcus McGuane

We will have scouts for the U23s and scouts for the main squad. I don't think one effects the other.

Spot on.

It's naive to just have one focus at a time, unable to adapt or prepare. It's like how some people say, 'why are we signing a CB when we desperately need a striker'. You strengthen where you can, doesn't mean you're not identifying other areas at the same time. Sometimes people neglect that there's more than just us and our needs when pursuing players.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Re: Marcus McGuane

We will have scouts for the U23s and scouts for the main squad. I don't think one effects the other.

Fair point, but I was also referring to this......


Highly-rated midfielder Marcus McGuane arrived at Nottingham Forest earlier this year after something of a long-winded transfer saga.

Having made the move from Barcelona, and previously been at Arsenal, big things are expected of the youngster.

The Reds had been working on a move for some time, with the deal proving complicated due to the player having been on loan at Dutch side Telstar.

......it seems the club dedicated resources to signing him at a key time when they could have been focused on getting us better players for the push.

For example, we missed out on Grosicki despite offering him more money because WBA was a more attractive club. Well an aggressive, successful club would be wining & dining said players to make us more attractive, just like any good sales team.

Won't always work, but when having to faff about with U23 player contract complications, you hinder the resources available to do that.

I'm sure many of us work for firms where their jobs overlap with other departments. Ultimately we have a finite amount of staff & hours available, and when going for promotion & in a strong position, I's sooner that have full focus tbh.

 

[Liaminho]

Re: Marcus McGuane

Fair point, but I was also referring to this......


Highly-rated midfielder Marcus McGuane arrived at Nottingham Forest earlier this year after something of a long-winded transfer saga.

Having made the move from Barcelona, and previously been at Arsenal, big things are expected of the youngster.

The Reds had been working on a move for some time, with the deal proving complicated due to the player having been on loan at Dutch side Telstar.

......it seems the club dedicated resources to signing him at a key time when they could have been focused on getting us better players for the push.

For example, we missed out on Grosicki despite offering him more money because WBA was a more attractive club. Well an aggressive, successful club would be wining & dining said players to make us more attractive, just like any good sales team.

Won't always work, but when having to faff about with U23 player contract complications, you deprive yourself of resource to at least try.

Oh dear Alf

I really highly doubt we missed out on Grosicki due to us trying to sign Mcguane. Like Mckenzie said we have different scouts scouting for different parts of the club.

The bloke that goes to watch Clifton All-whites u11s isn't the same bloke that's going to the Netherlands to have a look at McGuane.