Jorge Grant

[Mr Fox]

Jamie Paterson. Scored more goals in 13 games than any players Dougie bought to the club have in an entire season.

Paterson has talent but the problem is he thinks he’s better than he is. In the last couple of years he’s been no more than average at best. This season he has scored 3 goals. For an attacking midfield player that is nowhere near enough. But he is still under contract and I guess it will be up to he new manager to decide if he wants him to be part of his plans.

And sorry but that's utter garbage mate, there's more than just a few exceptions. Marco Materazzi made his Deria A debut aged 24, Drogba was a no-one at Guingamp aged 25, Ricky Lambertin League one aged 29, Fabio Grosso made his Serie A debut in 2001 at the age of 24, and in 2004, aged 27, he returned to Serie B. He was promoted from Serie B at the age of 28 and went on to win 48 caps for Italy. Luca Toni got his first taste of Serie A football at the age of 23 but found himself back in Serie B with Palermo at the age of 26. they are just a few examples..

I said top quality midfield players. You listed forwards and a couple of defenders. There is a history of forwards being late developers but I can’t think of many midfield players off the top of my head.

One thing Grant has got is a good mentality, have you actually watched him play? His body language and head are bang on. he just needs a bit more physical development and a run in the side, not 3 bloody starts.

Honestly some of you are flat out nutballs to be writing a 22 y/o off after 3 starts. He may not make it, but to see that an age & amount of chances as which to write someone off? Utterly mental..

I’ve seen Grant from the bench a number of times. I agree he should have been given a lot more game time this season. It just so happens that when he was becoming more involved in the first team picture Dougie was sacked. Since Williams took over he’s not had a look in.

Mentality might not have been the right word I was looking for. I was thinking more about desire I guess. I see him as a neat footballer. He will never be a commanding player that can dominate a game. That is not a criticism of him some players just don’t have that in their game. I am definitely not writing him off. I think he has talent but talent alone is not enough. You can get away with it more in the lower divisions but not the higher up you go. One of the most naturally gifted English players to have come through the system in recent years is Josh McEachran, now at Brentford. There is an example of a player who has all the talent but is struggling to put it together in a game. To play at the highest level you need more than talent.

 

[Hermz]

Sorry but some players just don't make it at a certain time. As much as we'd all love Tyler Walker to succeed, he hasn't quite got the physicality to be a striker currently. He spent all game warming up on Tuesday, just before he was due to come on, Burton were knocking on the door, but the physicality and rough and tumble of wigans defence changed Clough's mind and he never bought him on. Could it be the same for Grant?

Walker's got time on his side. He's still young, look at Harry Kane, he only really came through properly when he turned 21.

 

[Carlos]

Walker's got time on his side. He's still young, look at Harry Kane, he only really came through properly when he turned 21.

You could see Kane had it. Walker hasn't. I've seen him play for two sides now, he's just not up to it. Which is disappointing.

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

You could see Kane had it

He was derided by the fans everywhere he went on loan and was often accused of caring more about his hair than the game. He only got into the Spurs squad through injuries and wasn't expected to be anything spectacular as they were looking for another striker. If you could see he had "it", we need to get you on the scouting staff.

 

[Carlos]

He was derided by the fans everywhere he went on loan and was often accused of caring more about his hair than the game. He only got into the Spurs squad through injuries and wasn't expected to be anything spectacular as they were looking for another striker. If you could see he had "it", we need to get you on the scouting staff.

Lead Buxton to the treble on football manager.. Twice

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

The thing is that for whatever reason those players were around teams but for some reason didn't make it. Lambert started off at Liverpool, and then went down the divisions for first team football as a lot do, and worked his way back up.

You could look at Jamie Vardy who started off at Sheffield Weds before being released and having to play non league. I think Garath McCleary was on Oxford's books as well before having to play for Bromley. It's quite common for players to have to drop down.

As for Materazzi, he played in mainly Serie B at Perugia before going to play for Everton in 1998-9 at the age of 25, sooner than his Serie A debut, so you are fiddling stats a bit there.

Grant is a technically good player, but he has had the extreme disadvantage of up until joining us having not been a professional. He is several years behind even Osborn in his physical development as a pro, because Osborn has been with the club for longer and from a younger age. In the midfield roles you do need some physical presence to use your talent or else you'll simply get pushed off the ball all the time so it won't matter what you could theoretically do with it, and the championship is still quite a physical division.

You look at someone like Ollie Burke and Antonio and they do at least not have this physical disadvantage. He needs to strengthen up before he will make it. There are very few players who are physically weak - even the small players have something else.

Time will tell, I'm just absolutely gobsmacked that a club under umbongo would write off one of their own players aged 22 after 3 starts.

Wow, just wow.

Paterson has talent but the problem is he thinks he’s better than he is. In the last couple of years he’s been no more than average at best. This season he has scored 3 goals. For an attacking midfield player that is nowhere near enough. But he is still under contract and I guess it will be up to he new manager to decide if he wants him to be part of his plans.

I said top quality midfield players. You listed forwards and a couple of defenders. There is a history of forwards being late developers but I can’t think of many midfield players off the top of my head.



I’ve seen Grant from the bench a number of times. I agree he should have been given a lot more game time this season. It just so happens that when he was becoming more involved in the first team picture Dougie was sacked. Since Williams took over he’s not had a look in.

Mentality might not have been the right word I was looking for. I was thinking more about desire I guess. I see him as a neat footballer. He will never be a commanding player that can dominate a game. That is not a criticism of him some players just don’t have that in their game. I am definitely not writing him off. I think he has talent but talent alone is not enough. You can get away with it more in the lower divisions but not the higher up you go. One of the most naturally gifted English players to have come through the system in recent years is Josh McEachran, now at Brentford. There is an example of a player who has all the talent but is struggling to put it together in a game. To play at the highest level you need more than talent.

Get your facts right for starters, 3 goals? Paterson has scored 7 goals in 22 starts, 11 subs.

The rest of your opinion doesn't interest me after that start chap, as you're preception of "facts" will make it invalid anyway.

 

[Mr Fox]

Time will tell, I'm just absolutely gobsmacked that a club under umbongo would write off one of their own players aged 22 after 3 starts.

Wow, just wow.



Get your facts right for starters, 3 goals? Paterson has scored 7 goals in 22 starts, 11 subs.

The rest of your opinion doesn't interest me after that start chap, as you're preception of "facts" will make it invalid anyway.

You are right. 7 in total. 5 in the League and 2 in the cup. Three goals this year in the league.

Opinions are opinions.
Facts are facts. And as someone once said and that’s a fact.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

You are right. 7 in total. 5 in the League and 2 in the cup. Three goals this year in the league.

Opinions are opinions.
Facts are facts. And as someone once said and that’s a fact.

Yes, I am right He's scored 7 goals in 22 starts, 11 subs.

To try and skew that to show only 3 goals, and then state "for an attacking midfield player that is nowhere near enough." on the back of that is a supreme example of you selective choose "facts" to suit you're own Dougie bias, and poor all round.

The fact you choose to look at in no way reflect's Paterson's performance this year. If you actually look at that in more depth, he's played 2027min this year, scoring every 290 - a goal every 3.2 games, which is a great record for a midfielder - especially one who wouldn't cost us a penny.

You're hero Dougie didn't want a 1 in 3 midfielder here, instead he wanted Liam f***ing Trotter

 

[Mr Fox]

Yes, I am right. He's scored 7 goals in 22 starts, 11 subs.

To try and skew that to show only 3 goals, and then state "for an attacking midfield player that is nowhere near enough." on the back of that is a supreme example of you selective choose "facts" to suit you're own Dougie bias, and poor all round.

The fact you choose to look at in no way reflect's Paterson's performance this year. If you actually look at that in more depth, he's played 2027min this year, scoring every 290 - a goal every 3.2 games, which is a great record for a midfielder - especially one who wouldn't cost us a penny.

You're hero Dougie didn't want a 1 in 3 midfielder here, instead he wanted Liam f***ing Trotter

Alf, I wasn’t trying to skew anything. It was late, I looked up his stats and got it wrong. You have clearly looked into his performances more than me and he seems to have done well based on what you say. If he has got his head right then that can only be good for us when he comes back. As you say Dougie is no longer here so all should be well. I don’t think Dougie got everything right, far from it but by the same token he didn’t get everything wrong either.

 

[RedEd]

Yes, I am right You're hero Dougie didn't want a 1 in 3 midfielder here, instead he wanted Liam f***ing Trotter

I dunno who Trotter is, but sounds like Dougie was into the kinky stuff

 

[Barry]

I dunno who Trotter is, but sounds like Dougie was into the kinky stuff

Hes very effective playing in a bank of 6 midfielders on an 18 yard line

 

[BryanRoy]

He was derided by the fans everywhere he went on loan and was often accused of caring more about his hair than the game. He only got into the Spurs squad through injuries and wasn't expected to be anything spectacular as they were looking for another striker. If you could see he had "it", we need to get you on the scouting staff.

Definitely this.

Spurs dished him around on loan in unwanted fashion and most of his loans were average to failure.

 

[Trickie Trees]

You could see Kane had it. Walker hasn't. I've seen him play for two sides now, he's just not up to it. Which is disappointing.

I haven't seen a lot apart from that goal against Brentford to be honest.

 

[BryanRoy]

Very good points.

He's only started 3 games though and neither Walker or Burke have really grabbed their chances either. They are obviously younger but Grants been stuck in a club who've chronically mismanaged the transition between the youth setup and first team for years.

3 starts isn't many at all, and I don't think they were all one after another to give him a run (unless they were) which is what these younger players need to get settled at this level. Just throwing them in for 10 minutes here, or the occasional start there doesn't let them get used to playing with this first team or at the pace of the championship.

The teams been terrible this season and so it's no surprise that young players aren't coming in and excelling from the off. It's got to be tough going into a struggling team, with low morale, a manager fixated on every player defending and a fanbase in meltdown and who will howl if you misplace one pass. Also the academy itself has changed personnel and direction several times over the last couple of years so they've had to deal with that.

I think our academy prospects are suffering from years of problems at the club so may longer to truly kick on than we'd maybe expect.

Grant is very talented and hopefully he'll get more chances between now and the end of the season and really begin to progress. If not then the new manager will probably ship him out anyway but I do believe there's a lot of potential there that a club like ours is crying out to do something with.

At least until the whole structure is ripped up and started again.

For me Dougie has loaned out a young player who scored 9 in 13, another who's done great in a top European League, he could have played Osborn more early season but chose to bring in a load of wank CM loans, and he's played the likes of Akpom ahead of Walker & Grant last season when they needed game time.

It's a miracle Burke has flourised as much as he has with Freedman in charge, and I pesonally tink that Grant's age is a red herring, as he hasn't been given anywhere near the amount of game time or run in the side a decent manager would have given him.

Let's not forget the God-awful way he's been played too, having "defend, defend, defend" the mindset throughout the team.

As Hulk says 3 starts, for me Grants worth sticking with. The most exciting part of the season still remains watching our young crop get at Charlton.

Fair play lads. I am not leaning one way or the other but just asking the question.

What I have seen from his development isn't something that has excited me. I do think he needs more hunger to his game particularly in the tackle and along with getting the finer details right in the final third with assists and goals.

At 22 I say to myself, if he isn't getting on the bench and involved very soon his time at Forest may be trickling to a quiet end.

Pre-season is huge for him and other midfielders. I think we quite pedestrian at times because options may be lacking. More urgency, creativity and clever running is required.

Lansbury
Vaughan
Osborn
Cohen
Paterson
Ward

the only real midfielders or wide-players who believe they can play through the middle like Ward/Paterson/Osborn are contracted.

Personally I think midfield is the weakest set of young players behind goalkeepers, defenders and forwards so we got to ask after Osborn will we see a Grant, Cash, Crookes, Otim, Edser, Yates become a regular first teamer ? First of all we need a good coach who encourages young talent and the rest is down to them.

 

[BryanRoy]

Where is his career going ?

http://www.nottinghampost.com/jorge...l-come-again/story-29883916-detail/story.html

"I think you always want more. I always want to play," he said.

"It's frustrating for me not to get as much game time as I want, but that's the gaffer's decision.

"When I do play, I'll do whatever I can to help the team. When I'm called upon, I'll help out as much as I can.

"With Matty coming in this season and Joe starting at Reading, 100 per cent it gives you hope that you will keep getting a chance.

"And we've always got young players training with us.

"It's great for everyone at the club. To keep bringing through young players is massive.

"That's the aim, really, playing week in, week out for Forest.

"It's a massive club and you don't want to be here just for the ride; you want to be playing every week.

"That's my aim and once that happens I'll be a very, very happy boy."

"I wouldn't say we're down about it. Obviously we're disappointed with the results but the performances are near enough there," said Grant.

"We just need to take our chances and we need to stop conceding goals.

"I think once we do that we will fly.

"We just need to get that win. The momentum needs to change. Once we get that change, then we'll start flying again."


"The gaffer is a great guy. He's really great with everyone," Grant added.

"I don't think the players want anything to happen to the gaffer.

"We've just got to take each day as it comes and start winning games. At the end of the day, we've got to perform for the manager.

"We've got to take responsibility for our own performances, as well as the gaffer.

"We just need to start winning games."


Read more at http://www.nottinghampost.com/jorge...9883916-detail/story.html#3hqrZolAZY52qq8y.99

 

[Barry]

Got to admit he's never really impressed me

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

 

[BryanRoy]

Got to admit he's never really impressed me

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

He just never seems to grab games by the scruff of the neck. Even if it isn't working on the ball, he needs to try and win tackles and make interceptions.

With Osborn the same age and with 100+ games and the young er brigade of Cash, Yates, Edser, Ahemdhodzic coming through his chances are looking slim.

 

[MASE]

Id swap Kasami for Grant in a heartbeat. Similar end products, but Grants movement is better, he's busier & he'll improve with games under his belt.

Dont sense this a lull with Kasami, played alongside Lansbury we've got one of the Championships most pedestrian midfields.

The more kids the better if we're just going to tread water.

 

[Frank Clark’s Tash]

I don't think Grant currently offers enough to be considered for regular selection. Then again who in our midfield does?

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Id swap Kasami for Grant in a heartbeat. Similar end products, but Grants movement is better, he's busier & he'll improve with games under his belt.

Dont sense this a lull with Kasami, played alongside Lansbury we've got one of the Championships most pedestrian midfields.

The more kids the better if we're just going to tread water.

I think Kasami's still too young to write off, but seeing as he's a loan and Jorge is contracted to the club plus 2 years younger, I make you right.

I'm surprized how many folk don't rate Grant, I think he's shown some good stuff in patches, and would be more than happy to see if game time turned those patches into more perminant spells.

 

[MASE]

I don't think Grant currently offers enough to be considered for regular selection. Then again who in our midfield does?

Surely if whats in the first team can be at least matched by whats in the Academy, then you opt for the young un on the grounds he'll improve in time.

Our more seasoned midfielders have found their level, unfortunately its not good enough. What better time to give the kids some valuable experience.

 

[Trickie Trees]

I don't think Grant currently offers enough to be considered for regular selection. Then again who in our midfield does?

Cash > Grant > Kasami

Cash looked really promising before being injured. He is a better bet than Kasami and Grant once he's back fit.

 

[Barry]

I think Kasami's still too young to write off, but seeing as he's a loan and Jorge is contracted to the club plus 2 years younger, I make you right.

I'm surprized how many folk don't rate Grant, I think he's shown some good stuff in patches, and would be more than happy to see if game time turned those patches into more perminant spells.

I just don't see where he fits in now with the competition he has in relation to the lack of competition he genuinely had this time last year?

 

[Mr Fox]

Our more seasoned midfielders have found their level, unfortunately its not good enough. What better time to give the kids some valuable experience.

I agree and I hope Montanier continues to have confidence in the young players. Time to move on players that will not move this club forward.

 

[BryanRoy]

Only problem is he probably isn't the one that will be here at the end of the season.

Chance v Burton : Subbed off on 45 + other starts as well.
He is the young player around the first team that is always there but never backed.

The midfield has major issues. Probably best that Kasami, Vaughan, Lansbury & Cohen may not be here at the end of the season to give us a chance of re-building it. Problem is, I don't think I want too many new signings as I don't really trust our recruitment policy at this point.

Been bored of actually signing players on transfers for quite some time now.