Cloughie1975
John Robertson
I think a lot a fans are starting to think that.
The Premier League model means that all the top players end up at the top clubs.
Even bigger clubs than Forest (like Villa) are required to sell their top talent to comply.
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Financial Fair Play (FFP)
- Thread starter Hawkeye1947
- Start date
The Premier League model means that all the top players end up at the top clubs.
Even bigger clubs than Forest (like Villa) are required to sell their top talent to comply.
Cloughie1975
John Robertson
Thanks.
Is the Mangala transfer definite?
Bobby The Brain
Weasel
23 years scrimping and saving, wheeling and dealing in the lower leagues and for what?
This was supposed to be it, a ticket to the land of milk and honey. Just for some f***ing Norman to attack us with a spreadsheet.
Oh goody. We get to do all this again next year.
I can't wait.
And thank you for clarifying.
andover red
Geoff Thomas
I think the truth about 23/24 figures is that (like with 22/23) nobody really knows - except hopefully club insiders this time round!. Anything you read is pure guesswork.
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Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
It is a land of milk and honey.
Just that we've been stung by the bees and a cow has shit on our picnic.
Robertson
Viv Anderson
The reporting at the time said so, but the report yesterday said “£15m option”.
But, option or not, given Lyon have already invested £10m for four months service, surely they will complete the deal?
andover red
Geoff Thomas
It's probably better for us if the current rules apply for a further year. I suspect the new rules will disadvantage us even further.Oh goody. We get to do all this again next year.
I can't wait.
And thank you for clarifying.
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Cloughie1975
John Robertson
As has been said many times on here-the rules are designed to protect the cartel at the
top of the game.
Even a genius like Clough wouldn’t be able to take medium sized clubs such as Derby
and Forest to the top anymore.
It’s very sad and anti competition.
Redemption
Chief Eye Roller
Yes.
But its easy to see the £48m eaten away.
to avoid FFP again, we'd still have to cover the £10m difference hanging over from last season.
We paid off some some players, so let's for arguments sake say another £10m.
Costs for incoming players such as Sangarè, Murillo, Dominguez, Aina, Montiel, Tavarez, Turner, Vlacahdemos, Origi, Sels, Reyna, etc - in some combination of 1 Yr amortisations plus loan costs on the others. If that £30m there's your Johnno money gone.
That's before we think that wages alone is like be massively over income. Someone on a podcast said in the EPL, wages are already at 120% of income.
You can change these numbers to taste butbits easy to see how we still run up against the buffers.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
That's exactly what they're doing by making it about a percentage of turnover.
magicwoand
It tizwas it is
You can see why we're pushing for a new stadium or new stands. To stay in the Premier League you really need more revenue than we generate. Annoying that we appear to have the money but are not allowed to spend it. 
It's Baggio
John Robertson
I'd imagine it will happen, as Robertson said - I doubt they'd pay such a huge loan fee if they didn't want him permanently. It was probably just dependent on Lyon staying up, which they will do.
My only question was whether that extra £15m for the permanent deal was included in the forecast's Forest reported yesterday
isaacs
Viv Anderson
Worth remembering that Chris Woods 15mil fee falls under this window as well.
I did think out loud that our forecast of 12-17m loss for this year (so 17m then) by the club to the commission would mean that we have to sell, and sell one of the jewels at that to get the ship back on course. I'm assuming Brennans sale was included within that forecast because had it not been then we essentially went to the commission offering up his sale under two different financial windows (22/23, but if they didn't accept that as mitigation then its 23/24)
Prediction, Murillo leaves for 45mil in early June whether we stay up or not
I did think out loud that our forecast of 12-17m loss for this year (so 17m then) by the club to the commission would mean that we have to sell, and sell one of the jewels at that to get the ship back on course. I'm assuming Brennans sale was included within that forecast because had it not been then we essentially went to the commission offering up his sale under two different financial windows (22/23, but if they didn't accept that as mitigation then its 23/24)
Prediction, Murillo leaves for 45mil in early June whether we stay up or not
Haych
John Robertson
Oh I know we signed a few stinkers but Navas and Felipe kept us up IMO.
Wood has turned into a good signing and Danilo should hopefully keep improving.
4/7 good signings is decent for any club nevermind a club who signs players for the sake of it at times.
It would’ve been great not to sign Shelvey but we’re not perfect (far from it).
It's Baggio
John Robertson
If Forest vote for the suggested rule change to something similar to UEFA's squad cost model, then last nights "aspirant clubs" statement is essentially bollocks.
Agreed would represent a 35m profit puts us around 10m-15m under the 83m limit, Then you have the last championship season coming off the books next season which was 40m loss, Other players sales included next year too, Freuler 3.5m, Mangala 15m. We probably would then have a decent bit to play with in the next window should we stay up as the next limit would be 105m.
bearwood red
A. Trialist
The report (at 12.92) states that the current projection for 2023/24 is a loss of £12-17m. But, it is not clear if that is a PRS loss (ie after allowable deductions) or operating loss. Nor is it clear if that projection assumes Mangala is sold.
Anyway, if that is a PRS loss and already includes profit on assumed sale of Manga, we would still be in breach by about £25m. (Losses of £40m + £52 + £16m = £108m against limit of £83m). That would mean needing to realise a further £25m profit (not fees) in player sales by 30 June.
This is at odds with the statement later in the report that Forest are operating well within PRS limits in the current season. So who knows really!
However, our business model/PRS rules require us to buy players young and fairly cheap and sell on at a profit. So it should be no surprise to see our top players being sold every summer. It’s just a sad reality of elite football.
Redemption
Chief Eye Roller
There does appear to have been a shift recently in the football model overall.
Once upon a time top clubs never sold to each other.
But now, they also have to manage FFP (at a different level) by selling to each other. Also to avoid selling best assets abroad to revenue competitors.
Lower down the league, clubs have to sell upwards - as always happened - or across to Europe and other leagues.
Some clubs got this earlier than others. Brighton are the poster boys for this. So it can be done with a 30k stadium and little corporate revenue. But its needs patience and belief in the model.
Once upon a time top clubs never sold to each other.
But now, they also have to manage FFP (at a different level) by selling to each other. Also to avoid selling best assets abroad to revenue competitors.
Lower down the league, clubs have to sell upwards - as always happened - or across to Europe and other leagues.
Some clubs got this earlier than others. Brighton are the poster boys for this. So it can be done with a 30k stadium and little corporate revenue. But its needs patience and belief in the model.
Robertson
Viv Anderson
I’m guessing not as it’s listed as an option but who knows? There’s also options on Panzo, Worrall and maybe O’Brien and others (?) but hopefully not counting those as done deals either.
Joe Baker's Dog
Grenville Morris
There's a list in The Times today of the players we've signed/brought in on loan.
Summer 2022 - 23
January 2023 - 7
Summer 2023 - 13
Of those 43 players only 23 are still at NFFC in the PL squad. The rest have either been sold or loaned out. Of the 23 still at NFFC I'd suggest only 7 have been a clear success............MGW, Awoniyi (although his continuing battles with fitness might suggest he hasn't been a success), Williams, Elanga, Murillo, Dominquez, Hudson-Odoi.......so if we have to sell players to stay within FFP next season if we're still in the PL we will have to probably sell one or more of these 7.......a worrying thought.
Summer 2022 - 23
January 2023 - 7
Summer 2023 - 13
Of those 43 players only 23 are still at NFFC in the PL squad. The rest have either been sold or loaned out. Of the 23 still at NFFC I'd suggest only 7 have been a clear success............MGW, Awoniyi (although his continuing battles with fitness might suggest he hasn't been a success), Williams, Elanga, Murillo, Dominquez, Hudson-Odoi.......so if we have to sell players to stay within FFP next season if we're still in the PL we will have to probably sell one or more of these 7.......a worrying thought.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
Fortunately we can also get money for players not considered a success: Freuler for example.
Which one
Ah but remember, we are, in the words of PL Chief Richard Masters, "a small club."
#wanker
Not you, Erik, the idiot Masters.