Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
Hasn't improved things and has ruined the best part of football - bin it off.
VAR
- Thread starter Finding Remo
- Start date
weejockmcplop
Geoff Thomas
Its going nowhere. People can keep saying to get rid, but they won't.
It can be made good but they've taken totally the wrong direction with it by overlegislating and trying to anticipate every possible situation and create a rule for it.
This is stupid and is leading to alot of the mistakes we are seeing.
They need to allow the VAR to use his noggin and just give things that are obvious and then sack off all these obscure stupid specific rules they've put in place, or at least give leeway for the VAR to give a decision despite the stupid rules.
For example, the handball against Chelsea that wasn't given the other day. Yes, the hand that saved the shot was his supporting arm, but he also clearly used it deliberately to save the shot, so basic common sense says its a penalty.
Now I get the feeling Webb will want to add stipulations to the rules to cover situations like this, but again that's completely the wrong idea. Simply say that the VAR, and then the referee have ultimate say on whether or not a particular rule should be applied in a particular situation.
valspoodle
Steve Chettle
Of course, we could have something like the NFL. A large squad of refs running around on the pitch, then have rules so dense that they have to go to the 53 camera angles they use, then spend about 5 minutes working out if there actually is a contravention of the rules or not. All sorted.
Timothy Pope
I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
Offside can be automated.
All of the players wear vests nowadays with performance trackers on. If the vests also had positional trackers then the relative position of defenders & attackers can be determined at the point of which the ball gains velocity (also possible with a tracker inserted). No fannying about with whether attackers left big toe was being played on by defenders right bollock. Tracker says they were level or offside - job done.
All of the players wear vests nowadays with performance trackers on. If the vests also had positional trackers then the relative position of defenders & attackers can be determined at the point of which the ball gains velocity (also possible with a tracker inserted). No fannying about with whether attackers left big toe was being played on by defenders right bollock. Tracker says they were level or offside - job done.
Morpeth
John Robertson
Until one breaks or doesn't connect instantly. Just give a man a little flag i say.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
That's a really good idea. If a tracker could be pinned onto their shirt or sports vest or something in the same place and was reliable enough not to break down, then it would be in the same place on each player and it would avoid the "is his knee hair 2mm behind the defender's peen" that we get when the nit picking lines are drawn.
Even asking "if there's daylight between" is a bit subjective really as it depends where you measure it. If the ball had a tracker in it too (as I think they are), you could get this from the instant the ball was kicked as well. If this happens at any point and there is an attacker ahead of the last defender in the opponent's half, then it beeps the ref to the offside.
Morpeth
John Robertson
All accurate to the nearest millimetre - won't work.
It's a game of football - not landing a spaceship blind on a different planet.
Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut doesn't even convey how ridiculous it's all getting and the fact i made an albeit crap joke earlier in this thread and it wasn't blatantly obvious, shows that we're entering the endgame for the game i love.
"Why can’t we have three VAR officials watch a single camera angle in real time. Then another three watching another camera and so on. All you need really is 12 cameras, needing 36 extra VAR officials and for every camera angle each time they see something against the laws they press a button. If two officials on the same camera angle press within 0.1 seconds of each other then that angle counts as a foul. Then you use all twelve angles to determine if its an overall foul and the ref on the field can be told instantly in his ear. If the twelve angles are split evenly at 6-6 then let the on field referee decide. Piece of piss."
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Yes, that was quite funny
I still think unless the ref has basically f**ked it up the decision needs to stand. But if we were going to extend the idea of basically automated calls for offside (as well as out of play/goal line decisions) then that idea (which was building on something someone else suggested anyway) would probably make it work.
It really doesn't need all the poking around with stills and lines and what have you which goes on whenever a goal is given (except when we concede) or when anything mildly controversial happens. If it could have been seen at the time but was missed VAR should take a look. If it couldn't then let the ref decide.
Otherwise if Livarpool went away to somewhere like Oxford in the FA cup and let a goal in the ref would have to allow it...
Even Mil-spec GPS isn't that accurate
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
According to an article in the Yorkshire Post, Forest would be in 10th without VAR - Premier League table without VAR
Grenville 1898
Nicolás Domínguez - King of the Press
Agree. Can you imagine the Agueroooooo goal or Troy Denney play-off semi-final goal with VAR in place.
There is a much easier solution to all this if only the football authorities were prepared to admit they got it wrong and bowed to pressure from outside, mostly the TV companies. and have ended up with an impractical product and over complicated rules which render the whole thing unworkable.
Simplify the rules and also change the wording to 'If in the opinion of the referee' and let everyone get on with it.
Then if you want to use VAR let them analyse all the footage to their hearts content for 3 days after the game and if they find any infringement missed by the referee, or any simulation or misdeed by a player then they can ban the player by up to 5 games. Similarly, if a referee keeps getting things wrong they can be suspended for 2 weeks whilst they go on an intensive course to learn how to do it properly.
Then we can all get on with enjoying the game and the emotional rollercoaster it brings and they can dick around all they want with analysis afterwards.
A few 5 game bans for Grealish and he'll learn to stop diving.
Simplify the rules and also change the wording to 'If in the opinion of the referee' and let everyone get on with it.
Then if you want to use VAR let them analyse all the footage to their hearts content for 3 days after the game and if they find any infringement missed by the referee, or any simulation or misdeed by a player then they can ban the player by up to 5 games. Similarly, if a referee keeps getting things wrong they can be suspended for 2 weeks whilst they go on an intensive course to learn how to do it properly.
Then we can all get on with enjoying the game and the emotional rollercoaster it brings and they can dick around all they want with analysis afterwards.
A few 5 game bans for Grealish and he'll learn to stop diving.
Morpeth
John Robertson
Seems easy eh.
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
Don't see why it has to take so long sometimes. I'd give it a 20 second time limit, if it's a clear and obvious error then you can see it within 20 seconds. If not time's up and it just goes with the referee's decision.
I think that also puts some responsibility back on the officials again as for me they've slowly started to bottle decisions knowing that VAR will bail them out.
I think that also puts some responsibility back on the officials again as for me they've slowly started to bottle decisions knowing that VAR will bail them out.
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
Hard to say it eliminates the howlers after this weekend
EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Agreed but it does eliminate much more howlers. It does make me laugh though as what to people more wrong decisions? Thats what getting rid of VAR means. I hope people don't moan about refs if they decide they dont want it.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
It doesn't, it just introduces its own things which the VAR can mess up as opposed to the actual officials at the match.
The mistakes we saw were when the VAR didn't draw the lines or didn't spot a player so they thought the match decision was wrong. I guess that can happen at any time.
I think it's been rare we have benefited from having VAR compared to the times we haven't. The Leics game was probably the only one really, but that is mainly because of how an offside works - you need to look at the positions of the attackers and the defenders when the ball is played meaning you might need eyes in two distant places at once. When you also have a player like Brennan Johnson who is lightning quick and a direct runner to go with it, he could very easily (and was there) be on the last man at that point but look well offside when you have looked around a second or so later. I would have said with that one that it looked like it could have been either way without looking at a replay or another camera angle which to be fair is all it needs.
Ashley
Steve Chettle
VAR in it's current state is causing just as many new problems as it solves, whilst also sucking the life out of matches with ridiculous lengthy stoppages.
As I've said before, I think it should only be used to correct clear and obvious errors. If it takes more than 30 seconds, then the decision isn't clear and obvious and they should go with the referee's initial decision.
It feels like sometimes they spend too much time looking for excuses to change a decision to justify its use.
As I've said before, I think it should only be used to correct clear and obvious errors. If it takes more than 30 seconds, then the decision isn't clear and obvious and they should go with the referee's initial decision.
It feels like sometimes they spend too much time looking for excuses to change a decision to justify its use.
Morpeth
John Robertson
I am very happy to have more wrong decisions if it makes the game better overall.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
The problem is the second Keith Stroud rocks up to a game after his pre-match meal of Magic Mushrooms & 10 pints, we will instantly want VAR back just for those 1 or 2 moments it massively costs you over a season.
At the end of the day, the technology is being implemented by morons and being used by morons. The teething problems won't go away until the rules are stripped back & most of it is automated.
My biggest complaint has always been the amount of time it takes, not the decisions or getting them wrong. To have so many stoppages for stuff you can see within the first replay is quite frankly unacceptable - and anybody that has actually watched a football match for the past 150 years will be able to tell you how much of an impact stoppages can disrupt the flow of a game. That is why people time waste at points in a game, not to run down the clock but the kill momentum.
The marginal decisions, they HAVE to back the referee more often. It's these little nitpicky stuff that most people get annoyed about, whether it's for or against you. Football is the only sport to actively look for irrelevant reasons to disallow goals.
At the end of the day, the technology is being implemented by morons and being used by morons. The teething problems won't go away until the rules are stripped back & most of it is automated.
My biggest complaint has always been the amount of time it takes, not the decisions or getting them wrong. To have so many stoppages for stuff you can see within the first replay is quite frankly unacceptable - and anybody that has actually watched a football match for the past 150 years will be able to tell you how much of an impact stoppages can disrupt the flow of a game. That is why people time waste at points in a game, not to run down the clock but the kill momentum.
The marginal decisions, they HAVE to back the referee more often. It's these little nitpicky stuff that most people get annoyed about, whether it's for or against you. Football is the only sport to actively look for irrelevant reasons to disallow goals.
VAR is here to stay but we now have Howard Webb in control.
Already he is taking responsibility for poor decisions, and apologising to clubs, whilst reviewing the process.
It is clear that his intention is to ensure that the system is properly applied, and to ensure that those involved in decisions are accountable. I also hope that he addresses the lazy refs who ‘leave it to VAR’ rather then make a decision.
I expect to see better monitoring of referee performances (including the VAR referee) which will have consequences. Also we should see decisions in a more timely fashion.
A discussion on the use of AI, especially for offsides, is likely, and hopefully the technology will develop.
Interestingly Webb will also meet with representatives of the Football Supporters Association in the near future.
One other important aspect is the poor behaviour of too many players at Elite level. Sadly this behaviour is copied throughout football causing huge difficulty in recruiting and retaining new referees. Over time this will have serious consequences for elite levels of the game - the great majority of PL & EFL referees come through the grass roots system.
During my years as player and spectator I’ve witnessed a wide range of refereeing styles but at local level the worst games were those with no official referee and a ‘volunteer’ replacement.
Already he is taking responsibility for poor decisions, and apologising to clubs, whilst reviewing the process.
It is clear that his intention is to ensure that the system is properly applied, and to ensure that those involved in decisions are accountable. I also hope that he addresses the lazy refs who ‘leave it to VAR’ rather then make a decision.
I expect to see better monitoring of referee performances (including the VAR referee) which will have consequences. Also we should see decisions in a more timely fashion.
A discussion on the use of AI, especially for offsides, is likely, and hopefully the technology will develop.
Interestingly Webb will also meet with representatives of the Football Supporters Association in the near future.
One other important aspect is the poor behaviour of too many players at Elite level. Sadly this behaviour is copied throughout football causing huge difficulty in recruiting and retaining new referees. Over time this will have serious consequences for elite levels of the game - the great majority of PL & EFL referees come through the grass roots system.
During my years as player and spectator I’ve witnessed a wide range of refereeing styles but at local level the worst games were those with no official referee and a ‘volunteer’ replacement.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
Yep Howard Webb will hopefully be a big improvement.
He's already taken Lee Mason & Brooks off VAR duties for the next 2 weeks. That never happened pior to him being there.
The jobs for the boys culture has to change amongst English referees. The fact Mason got a job as a VAR operator after packing in refereeing says it all to begin with. VAR operators should act as teams with specific referees just like linos do. I have never understood why they don't.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
What I would also add to the "things they should do" which you hint on there but don't suggest quite as far, is - if VAR has to overturn a decision by the ref and assistants at the game, this is a reportable incident. For all of these cases, there needs to be a discussion with HW (or someone similar who oversees the refs), the ref, assistants and the VAR officials discussing why the decision was wrong and to put steps in place to make sure the same thing doesn't happen next time, or has less chance of this. The outcome is then shared with all of the other officials so everyone is on the same page.
EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Thats fair! I think I just get upset is when people dont liek VAR than moan about referee peformance without it. In fact id have more sympathy if people moaned at refs who have the joy of VAR. Not defending teh weekend decisions becuase of course they were bad
Just saying from my persepctive VAR has enhanced my football experince because I have noticed by quite a bit diving in thebox especially has descreased loads. I love how footy is being played with refs letting things go more becuase they have the comfort of VAR. Thats my 2 penneth
adam09
Super Koopa
8 Man City players around the ref trying to get Douglas Luis a second yellow.To be fair, Mahrez was just getting the ball to take a free kick.