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The Rise and Fall of Aitor Karanka

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
It's all conjecture in any case. Unless EM was that intent on getting into bed with Mendes, then i can't really think JC was brought in totally against the manager's wishes, even if he wasn't wholly in favour of the signing, which is still guess work.

Tomlin (who I think AK had at Boro) wasn't ever ours, he was onloan from Cardiff, who went up that year, so maybe he wanted the chance of PL and didn't want to come here anyway.

Its conjecture to say that the manager also wanted the players. So thats all we have to work with. From the evidence of how many Olympiakos signings and Mendes signings were brought in under different managers.

Tomlin came in on loan and maybe didnt want to come in Summer but maybe he did.

Also Daniel Taylor has written about it before and I have subscription to the athletic so I can relay

Those supporters were even more perplexed by the idea that he would decide to walk away, especially when Forest had beaten Leeds United, then the Championship leaders, in their previous league match. Forest won 4-2 and a sold-out City Ground made it clear they wanted Karanka to stay. The team were one place outside the play-offs and the transfer window had just opened. So why would any manager in that position just walk away?
The answer is that, by that stage, Karanka was so worn down by the politics and unpleasantness behind the scenes that he did not have the stomach to carry on any longer.

Karanka was emotionally drained. He had been unhappy for some time. His wife, Ana, had stopped going to games because she did not want to see the people he blamed for making him so miserable. One person in particular: chief executive Ioannis Vrentzos.
That was the season Forest had allied with the “super-agent” Jorge Mendes. The Greeks wanted Mendes to have the same kind of positive influence for Forest that he did for Wolves in their 2017-18 promotion season. But Karanka started to feel under pressure from Vrentzos to pick certain players.
Key figures have told The Athletic that Karanka felt there was interference from above on team selection and that he worked for months in the belief that, if he did not do as they wanted, his job was increasingly in danger. It is understood Forest say the allegations of interference are incorrect and unfair.
One issue related to Arvin Appiah, one of the players to come through the club’s academy.

Forest’s hierarchy wanted Appiah to be involved with the first-team squad because the club intended to sell the player and thought it would bump up his valuation. Mendes had links to potential buyers and the club’s information was that Manchester United might be keen. Forest thought they could raise the kind of transfer fee that would help the club keep within the financial fair play regulations.
Karanka saw it differently. Appiah was talented but raw and Karanka had considerable doubts about whether a boy of 17 was ready for the Championship.

Insiders say Karanka’s relationship with Vrentzos had soured within a few months of taking the job and that he resented the way the chief executive behaved towards him. The issue with Appiah made it considerably worse. Nor did it help that Vrentzos had a habit of turning up to watch training after bad results, creating more pressure simply because of his presence.
One colleague recalls seeing Karanka’s shoulders sag and his entire body language change for the worse when he came off the training pitch, with a game the next day, to be told Vrentzos wanted to speak to him.

As everything came to a head, Karanka’s mentality was: you are going to sack me at some point, so I would rather be sacked picking the team I want.

On Boxing Day, 2018, Forest went to Norwich City and took a 3-0 lead after 74 minutes. Norwich then scored three of their own to salvage an almost implausible draw. The equaliser came in the eighth minute of stoppage time and journalists were told directly after the game that Karanka was close to being sacked. The story was out. Everyone knew Karanka was a dead man walking from that point onwards and for the next three weeks, the headlines created a whirl of pressure and uncertainty around him.
It was even leaked at one point that O’Neill had been identified as the choice of replacement.

Forest lost their next match at Millwall and, in the build-up to the game, the players noticed how detached Karanka was on the training ground. What they did not realise was that he had been close to resigning two months earlier. Karanka had accepted his relationship with Vrentzos was broken and blamed him for what had gone wrong.
Towards the end of Karanka’s reign, Vrentzos was turning up at the training ground on a near-daily basis. Not all the players were happy to see him and, noting the subdued atmosphere, it did not go down well when he told a member of medical staff to “get them all some laughing gas”. Vrentzos didn’t seem to realise that one of the reasons why the mood was so sombre was because of him.
Karanka was used to club politics and dealing with difficult bosses. He had been a player at Real Madrid and was part of the coaching staff at the Bernabeu when Jose Mourinho was manager. Yet he was shocked by his alleged treatment at Forest when, in his mind, it could have been the start of something special.
When Forest won one game against Ipswich Town, six weeks before his resignation, he looked so downbeat during the post-match press conference the BBC Radio Nottingham interviewer asked him, “You seem a bit flat, are you OK?”
“I’m very flat,” Karanka replied.

That went down badly with the club. The club are believed to feel that Karanka was putting on an act, hamming up his alleged unhappiness, and to claim that he had been celebrating the result in his office a few minutes earlier.
Marinakis flew in at one point to see if there was any way of fixing the relationship between Karanka and Vrentzos. But Karanka, regarded by colleagues as an intense yet honourable man, could not take any more. He had decided it was impossible to work with Vrentzos any more and concluded that Forest’s FA Cup tie at Chelsea would be his final match.
Karanka asked to be released from his contract and, as well as arranging a farewell meal for his closest staff at a nearby Gusto restaurant, he went to the stadium to say goodbye to everyone in the offices. Once that was done, he returned to the training ground to collect his belongings and say goodbye to all the relevant people there, too.
At the top of the club, they were annoyed that he was, in their eyes, still hanging around.

The club said they would not pay for some plastic boxes that had been bought by another member of staff, out of his own pocket, to help Karanka’s coaches pack up their belongings with a bit more dignity than having to use bin bags.
Appiah, now 19, was sold for £8 million eight months later. Yet it was not Manchester United who came in for him. It was Almeria — one of the clubs where Mendes has his strongest influence — in Spain’s second division. And by that stage, Forest had already moved out another manager.



I think the club fecked Karanka over royaly, not to mention Soudani a complete waste of money.
 

gamble

Stuart Pearce
Its conjecture to say that the manager also wanted the players. So thats all we have to work with. From the evidence of how many Olympiakos signings and Mendes signings were brought in under different managers.

Tomlin came in on loan and maybe didnt want to come in Summer but maybe he did.

Also Daniel Taylor has written about it before and I have subscription to the athletic so I can relay

Those supporters were even more perplexed by the idea that he would decide to walk away, especially when Forest had beaten Leeds United, then the Championship leaders, in their previous league match. Forest won 4-2 and a sold-out City Ground made it clear they wanted Karanka to stay. The team were one place outside the play-offs and the transfer window had just opened. So why would any manager in that position just walk away?
The answer is that, by that stage, Karanka was so worn down by the politics and unpleasantness behind the scenes that he did not have the stomach to carry on any longer.

Karanka was emotionally drained. He had been unhappy for some time. His wife, Ana, had stopped going to games because she did not want to see the people he blamed for making him so miserable. One person in particular: chief executive Ioannis Vrentzos.
That was the season Forest had allied with the “super-agent” Jorge Mendes. The Greeks wanted Mendes to have the same kind of positive influence for Forest that he did for Wolves in their 2017-18 promotion season. But Karanka started to feel under pressure from Vrentzos to pick certain players.
Key figures have told The Athletic that Karanka felt there was interference from above on team selection and that he worked for months in the belief that, if he did not do as they wanted, his job was increasingly in danger. It is understood Forest say the allegations of interference are incorrect and unfair.
One issue related to Arvin Appiah, one of the players to come through the club’s academy.

Forest’s hierarchy wanted Appiah to be involved with the first-team squad because the club intended to sell the player and thought it would bump up his valuation. Mendes had links to potential buyers and the club’s information was that Manchester United might be keen. Forest thought they could raise the kind of transfer fee that would help the club keep within the financial fair play regulations.
Karanka saw it differently. Appiah was talented but raw and Karanka had considerable doubts about whether a boy of 17 was ready for the Championship.

Insiders say Karanka’s relationship with Vrentzos had soured within a few months of taking the job and that he resented the way the chief executive behaved towards him. The issue with Appiah made it considerably worse. Nor did it help that Vrentzos had a habit of turning up to watch training after bad results, creating more pressure simply because of his presence.
One colleague recalls seeing Karanka’s shoulders sag and his entire body language change for the worse when he came off the training pitch, with a game the next day, to be told Vrentzos wanted to speak to him.

As everything came to a head, Karanka’s mentality was: you are going to sack me at some point, so I would rather be sacked picking the team I want.

On Boxing Day, 2018, Forest went to Norwich City and took a 3-0 lead after 74 minutes. Norwich then scored three of their own to salvage an almost implausible draw. The equaliser came in the eighth minute of stoppage time and journalists were told directly after the game that Karanka was close to being sacked. The story was out. Everyone knew Karanka was a dead man walking from that point onwards and for the next three weeks, the headlines created a whirl of pressure and uncertainty around him.
It was even leaked at one point that O’Neill had been identified as the choice of replacement.

Forest lost their next match at Millwall and, in the build-up to the game, the players noticed how detached Karanka was on the training ground. What they did not realise was that he had been close to resigning two months earlier. Karanka had accepted his relationship with Vrentzos was broken and blamed him for what had gone wrong.
Towards the end of Karanka’s reign, Vrentzos was turning up at the training ground on a near-daily basis. Not all the players were happy to see him and, noting the subdued atmosphere, it did not go down well when he told a member of medical staff to “get them all some laughing gas”. Vrentzos didn’t seem to realise that one of the reasons why the mood was so sombre was because of him.
Karanka was used to club politics and dealing with difficult bosses. He had been a player at Real Madrid and was part of the coaching staff at the Bernabeu when Jose Mourinho was manager. Yet he was shocked by his alleged treatment at Forest when, in his mind, it could have been the start of something special.
When Forest won one game against Ipswich Town, six weeks before his resignation, he looked so downbeat during the post-match press conference the BBC Radio Nottingham interviewer asked him, “You seem a bit flat, are you OK?”
“I’m very flat,” Karanka replied.

That went down badly with the club. The club are believed to feel that Karanka was putting on an act, hamming up his alleged unhappiness, and to claim that he had been celebrating the result in his office a few minutes earlier.
Marinakis flew in at one point to see if there was any way of fixing the relationship between Karanka and Vrentzos. But Karanka, regarded by colleagues as an intense yet honourable man, could not take any more. He had decided it was impossible to work with Vrentzos any more and concluded that Forest’s FA Cup tie at Chelsea would be his final match.
Karanka asked to be released from his contract and, as well as arranging a farewell meal for his closest staff at a nearby Gusto restaurant, he went to the stadium to say goodbye to everyone in the offices. Once that was done, he returned to the training ground to collect his belongings and say goodbye to all the relevant people there, too.
At the top of the club, they were annoyed that he was, in their eyes, still hanging around.

The club said they would not pay for some plastic boxes that had been bought by another member of staff, out of his own pocket, to help Karanka’s coaches pack up their belongings with a bit more dignity than having to use bin bags.
Appiah, now 19, was sold for £8 million eight months later. Yet it was not Manchester United who came in for him. It was Almeria — one of the clubs where Mendes has his strongest influence — in Spain’s second division. And by that stage, Forest had already moved out another manager.



I think the club fecked Karanka over royaly, not to mention Soudani a complete waste of money.
Why would AK walk away, the same reason he did at Boro. The guys got form for walking when he doesn't get what he wants.

He spent millions at Boro with a huge squad and walked, did the same here, only difference is the Boro board went back and begged him to return we didn't.

He was dogshit at Birmingham.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
 

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
Why would AK walk away, the same reason he did at Boro. The guys got form for walking when he doesn't get what he wants.

He spent millions at Boro with a huge squad and walked, did the same here, only difference is the Boro board went back and begged him to return we didn't.

He was dogshit at Birmingham.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

He was shite Birmingham but I honestly think you are not being fair if you are making Karanka responsible for the transfer window we had. If he were in charge of transfers with a budget he would not have done a worse job than Vrentzos a non football man sticking he 20 pence in.

However its not just Karanka that suffered O'Neil and Lamouchi suffered from poor transfer decisions from Vrentzos. The Mendes link I think was evident and it turned out to be really poor for us.

However as I said fair play to the club for recognising this and changing it and they deserve credit but there is no need to throw Karanka under the bus.
 

Rzar

Bob McKinlay
We will never know how good or bad he would have done, anything is just guesswork.

For me he rates as one of our better managers in recent times, he had enough about him to do a good job and was doing a good job in my opinion. We backed him too much to not allow it to work, I think both him & the club are to blame but mainly the club. If you spend that much on a manager you simply have to persist but I think EM did come over and try to fix things with him. Looking back Vrentzos made an awful mess for EM didn't he.

Karanka had a lot of players playing to their potential, he got a lot out of specific players. But he will be like marmite because his methods cost a lot of money. For me he is more suited to one of the parachute clubs like West Brom than a Forest or Birmingham.
 

Ashley

Steve Chettle
We will never know how good or bad he would have done, anything is just guesswork.

For me he rates as one of our better managers in recent times, he had enough about him to do a good job and was doing a good job in my opinion. We backed him too much to not allow it to work, I think both him & the club are to blame but mainly the club. If you spend that much on a manager you simply have to persist but I think EM did come over and try to fix things with him. Looking back Vrentzos made an awful mess for EM didn't he.

Karanka had a lot of players playing to their potential, he got a lot out of specific players. But he will be like marmite because his methods cost a lot of money. For me he is more suited to one of the parachute clubs like West Brom than a Forest or Birmingham.

Think that's a pretty good summary really. Will do a job for clubs who have resources and want quick success, but not really suited to clubs where building a side on a budget and developing players is required (hence why someone like Cooper is far more suited to us than Karanka).
 

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
We will never know how good or bad he would have done, anything is just guesswork.

For me he rates as one of our better managers in recent times, he had enough about him to do a good job and was doing a good job in my opinion. We backed him too much to not allow it to work, I think both him & the club are to blame but mainly the club. If you spend that much on a manager you simply have to persist but I think EM did come over and try to fix things with him. Looking back Vrentzos made an awful mess for EM didn't he.

Karanka had a lot of players playing to their potential, he got a lot out of specific players. But he will be like marmite because his methods cost a lot of money. For me he is more suited to one of the parachute clubs like West Brom than a Forest or Birmingham.

You see I think if you gave Karanka the loans back for Dias and goncalves and the money spent on Carvlaho, Soudani and Toby. He would have used that more wisely and done even better with us. I also dont think he wanted any of those players bar Figgy probably.

Soudani, Figgy and Carvlaho is 18 mill together.
 

Rzar

Bob McKinlay
You see I think if you gave Karanka the loans back for Dias and goncalves and the money spent on Carvlaho, Soudani and Toby. He would have used that more wisely and done even better with us. I also dont think he wanted any of those players bar Figgy probably.

Soudani, Figgy and Carvlaho is 18 mill together.

Most of his signings were cheap but I think the wages were the big thing rather than the fees. We signed a lot of ex-PL players on big money.

The elephant in the room was the Carvalho transfer but he was the only manager to make him look a top player anyway. It does inflate his transfer spending.

Players like Lolley, Toby, Grabban, Colback were all very good value signings and have featured regularly ever since.

Like I say, transfers were very hit and miss but there was some good ones in there but probably too many not so good ones for a club without parachute payments.
 
He's mardy and nowhere near as good as Cooper. Why the f*** are you arguing about him?
 

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
He's mardy and nowhere near as good as Cooper. Why the f*** are you arguing about him?

Now this I do find weird.

I mean, I had many a debate over Davies, but every time we weren't in a playoff place, in fact we were usually fighting relegation.

Coops has just made almost every manager since Clark look second rate by turning around a relegation fight into a 4th finish, on a modest budget, with a young squad, and all in the same season.

Who gives a shit about mediocre cheque-book managers compared to Cooperman? :dunno:
 

Ashley

Steve Chettle
Chris Hughton is apparently on the shortlist for Blackburn manager. It's a crazy world out there.

Poor Blackburn (if it happens). Imagine wanting Mowbray gone hoping for someone fresh and progressive, only to end up with Chris bloody Hughton. :LOL:
 

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Poor Blackburn (if it happens). Imagine wanting Mowbray gone hoping for someone fresh and progressive, only to end up with Chris bloody Hughton. :LOL:

It’s a bit like that bit in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, where Indy thinks he’s clever because he’s escaped the goons of the evil Chinese gangster, Lao Che, only to unfortunately complete his escape on an aeroplane owned by Lao Che Shipping.

Rookie mistake, and one he had to escape by jumping out the plane without a parachute, after the pilots bailed-out whilst he was asleep.

Let’s hope Blackburn aren’t as unlucky.
 

Erik

oopsy daisy!
LTLF Minion
We will never know how good or bad he would have done, anything is just guesswork.

No it isn't.

He failed. Harsh, but true.

He was a failure. Like all the others - Pearce, Freedman, O'Driscoll, Warburton and O'Neil. He's no better than any of them, and no worse.

Another managerial casualty at Forest because they weren't up to the task.

Amazing how many allowances and excuses a failure can get given.
 

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
I can see your POV. Both left us clear of the relegation zone, both didn't have us in the playoffs either, but one spent a fortune and the other was under umbongo.

Both aren't for to lace Cooperman's boots.

I dont know why people are bringing Cooper into this. We all agree Cooper is better its not a contest. All I am saying and has been my argument is you can't lay the transfer spend in my view at Karanka's door. Look at the players signed as well I do not think they were Kranks.

Goncalves, Dias, Toby and Carvalho all Mendes. Than Soudani, Yanko and Ansarfarid is Vrentzos. Than look what happened to O'Neil with transfers after, I do not think its fair to lay that transfer spend at Karanka's door.

By all means question his management especially if you think the players he had were good but the if you dont make the club responsible for the transfers that would be misdiagnosing the problem.
 
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