RedDogChris
RedDogChris
That went under the radar with me too, good luck to the man. One of the better recent managers until Mr Cooper came along of course
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The Rise and Fall of Aitor Karanka
- Thread starter Alf-engelos Mindminackers
- Start date
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Grenville Morris
I hope he does well too.
For me he was the last 1/2 decent manger we had before Coops.
He had his "issues" of course but I always felt there was a fierce competitive core there and I could see what he was trying to do with the team even though he was a bit profligate with money.
I wonder what might have happened if we hadn't had the meltdown and he'd been with us for a couple more seasons, perhaps with Marinakis at his back?
For me he was the last 1/2 decent manger we had before Coops.
He had his "issues" of course but I always felt there was a fierce competitive core there and I could see what he was trying to do with the team even though he was a bit profligate with money.
I wonder what might have happened if we hadn't had the meltdown and he'd been with us for a couple more seasons, perhaps with Marinakis at his back?
Senior Flange Technician
Andy!
Mardy.
Thomas
AMERICAN IDIOT
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
We'd have spent a lot of money, and had an even more massive squad.
RedDogChris
RedDogChris
He was a good guy but he had no answer when Plan A started to fail. I feel Kranky was the better manager and would have finished top 6 in the same season where O'Neil came in and fell short.
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Grenville Morris
Yes, he was a handsome man…
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
We would have been in the playoffs at the least. His players played for him.
If we'd only given him that extra £30m he wanted we would have been.
We shoot ourselves in the foot sometimes.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Possibly, but AK had us finish 17th in his first season here.
In his last run of games we were placed 7th, 7th, 7th, 10th, 10th, 7th
And then I look at his time at Birmingham.
I'm not seeing anything there which says playoffs would have been assured at all.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
I think it was the 3-3 at Norwich which took the wheels off though. Before that we were doing reasonably well and then it appeared something happened, though he only had a couple more matches after then.
Karanka did a lot to make us much more solid and harder to beat or concede (though we did draw 5-5 with Villa) which was progress from a more free-scoring (and free-conceding) Warburton side, and took a while to get going, when a manager comes in midseason like that they normally have to spend a while sorting out the reasons why the other one got sacked...
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
I think if he had stayed and had his way with spending, we may well have found ourselves either getting promoted or in FFP Pooh for several seasons.
He spent 26m, more than any manager we've had in recent years and more than most clubs in this league. We should have been in the playoffs all season at that amount of money.
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Ashley
Steve Chettle
Thought he did an alright job, though I am happy that we eventually got to the current set up we have now with Murphy and Cooper rather than continue to spend at the levels we did that summer. Without promotion, that approach just wasn't sustainable.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
I don't think the amount he spent was too much really. It was showing signs of clicking as we were flirting with the top 6 most of that season before he quit, and probably would have had enough to get through.
The issue we had was that we'd gone from a manager who still has a total lack of defensive organisation to one who based his teams on it. It was the right move but needed a shift on the playing side as MW couldn't spot a defender or organise a defence (who found Rob Dickie for him?).
That first deadline day was crazy, I think that day we brought in Pantilimon, Lolley, Watson, Colback, Tomlin, a few others who didn't do much, and I think we were close to getting Dawson as well (as opposed to when he did eventually come in).
I think most of those were free or loans so didn't cost us a lot, the window after we got Carvalho in for 13m (enough has been said about that fee), and Grabban 6m would have taken up a lot of the 26m you mentioned on 2 players (which really did include the two lads on loan as well as it was mooted as a Mendes fee).
But ultimately either way the squad needed replacing as at that point it was still full of rubbish brought in 2016 summer and a lot of MW's signings were terrible too.
The issue was then that rather than sticking straight off with a replacement similar to AK we then went for O'Neill who was still preferring 4-4-2 when most of the league moved away from it, and not heading for a more similar replacement (which admittedly we did in the summer, I don't think he was available in January)... and if we had been under a similar setup to the one with the CEO in charge rather than just appointing random managers when AK did leave we probably would have made the play offs.
For all his status and track record I'd say MO'N is the manager appointed under EM who has progressed the club the least. Hughton is close, but did start the defensive solidity we have now, certainly under Lamouchi we were still a bit fragile at the back...
Haych
John Robertson
If we spent the same amount of money on the current 11 as we did under Karanka we would of won this league by Christmas.
valspoodle
Steve Chettle
Like decisions in football games, you never know what would happen later if different decisions were made at that time.
Fortunately, the dice fell so that SC came here and things improved dramatically. If things had gone another way, we might have gone another way, too.
Fortunately, the dice fell so that SC came here and things improved dramatically. If things had gone another way, we might have gone another way, too.
EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Did Aitor spend that though? We all know Aitor was fecked over by the club with Transfers. Most of the players he didnt want. Besides Grabban I would say Aitor didnt want any of those players.
EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Look who was signed Statto, the club did not get Aitor signings in the main. carvalho wasnt an Aitor signing he would have been happy with Tomlin although Kranks did get the best out of him.
Look at all the managers who have failed under EM and the common denominator is the Vrentzos poor signings. Imagine if Cooper and Murphy had that money what a pissing waste.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
I think it's a slight misconception to suggest the current team is cheaply assembled though - it isn't.
Admittedly a fair amount of fees are undisclosed these days and it's difficult to value players who haven't moved for a fee, so that's the likes of Worrall, Spence, Garner, Yates, Johnson... All of those are probably worth at least 5m and some a lot more.
Samba and McKenna apparently cost a few million each and Surridge was what, 2/3m, Grabban 6m.
Most of our first team players will be in at least the 5-10m bracket in terms of current value, though obviously these are usually guesses.
We don't have the resources of a parachute club but it isn't as though we're cobbling together free transfers and players from Accrington and Morecambe into a top 6 side. We have several PL loans and top academy prospects linked with the PL playing every week in addition to the signings we bought in.
In terms of valuation probably worth more than that AK side considering JC was never a 13m player.
How do we know that? Carvalho had his best form under Karanka who built a fair amount of the system around his strengths, so it's a bit far fetched to suggest he might not have wanted him.
Whether he wanted them or not his squad cost £26m plus loan fees and high earning players like Pantillimon, he also signed around 40 players in 2 windows.
Even 6m on Grabban is more than Warburton, Copper, Sabri, Hughton spent (i think).
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EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Aitor was the manager with his particular MO. Unless Aitor accepted he wasnt going to be in charge of transfers I cant see how you can lay those at his door. I will concede that you will never know for sure however on the evidence we know surely its far more likely they werent his signings.
As for your second point not sure who the managers exactly but 19/20 season we spent 7.2 million and the 20/21 season we spent 13.5 million.
Man United's squad is the second most expensive in the World dosent mean its any good.
Here is that seasons transfers and what we know about our relationship with Mendes I struggle to see how Aitor wanted these players, even o'Neil was fecked over.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/not...703/plus/?saison_id=2018&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=
There's no way we spent 5m on Arter and 38k in wages.. The fee for Soh is also not going to be right.
Fair enough about 19/20 we spent 7m mainly in the January window, when we missed out on the playoffs marginally, so spent around 1/3 to 1/4 of what AK did to match/beat him.
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Fair enough about 19/20 we spent 7m mainly in the January window, when we missed out on the playoffs marginally, so spent around 1/3 to 1/4 of what AK did to match/beat him.
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EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
Still though just because money is spent it dosent mean it's a better side. Carvalho was not worth 13.5 million and Aitor I can not for life of me think that he wanted him for that much. Especially as he was a Tomlin fan boy.
Honestly seeing how we used Mendes for a few managers to get players I can't lay that spend catastophe at Karanka's door. In fact his favs were Colback, Tomlin and Grabban were all great value. We just have to agree to disagree.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
It's all conjecture in any case. Unless EM was that intent on getting into bed with Mendes, then i can't really think JC was brought in totally against the manager's wishes, even if he wasn't wholly in favour of the signing, which is still guess work.
Tomlin (who I think AK had at Boro) wasn't ever ours, he was onloan from Cardiff, who went up that year, so maybe he wanted the chance of PL and didn't want to come here anyway.