Steven Reid (The Absolute LEGEND!)

[Matt]

I usually take interest in your posts and find them informed and considered. This one couldn't be any further from that.

With regards to BAME you state, "There isn’t equality of opportunity for BAME managers". Based upon what? What evidence is there to support that the opportunities haven't been made for those that wish be considered?

Unless you have the figures of what has been offered, what has been applied for you have no idea. Not to mention that you have to consider there might just be an actual lack of interest from BAME people to pursue these roles.

You clearly have a distinct lack of knowledge of what Jordan Peterson is all about. He became infamous for standing up against a bill that they tried to pass in Canada call C16 because the consequences were far reaching and had serious consequences against freedom of speech enshrined in law.

I've had a keen interest in Psychology for 20 years and I've followed Peterson for many, many years now and there are many misinformed accusations thrown towards him, this is another. There are legimate concerns and discussions regarding the huge spike in trans.

A huge is problem in today's society is people aren't allowed to have discussions without being labelled as phobic etc.

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I’m happy to discuss this outside of the forum as I feel, being honest, that this kind of discussion generally doesn’t contribute to the overall value of the forum and can get bogged down in nuance, semantics and the like. The percentage of BAME players vs BAME coaches is not up for debate tho - the funnel does not work the same for black players as it does for white ones. I do not know why that is, but it is a fact.

Generally speaking I have had a just below surface level dig into Jordan Peterson - listened to a few podcasts and read a few bits and pieces from him and on him and found him generally distasteful. I find his debating style aggressive and dismissive, his viewpoints generally on the side of populism than pragmatism and whilst I agree that someone needs to check and balance against the overarching compelled speech argument, some (perhaps most) of his views on and statements against feminism and trans-activism are inflammatory at best and phobic at worst.

Having said I didn’t want to debate publicly I appear to have done exactly that and don’t want to waste my post. But I support a club and a city with a long history of social activism and believe strongly that it should be upheld and continually promoted throughout the fan base.

 

[Matt]

I just meant I think it's probably best to keep this discussion to Steven Reid himself rather than the wider issue of BAME managers in football, for which I'm sure this forum has a separate thread?

Who needs a separate thread on LTLF when you can discuss everything and nothing on the same one?!

 

[Statto]

The article is ridiculous. If he was sacked because he was BAME, why was he hired? He was sacked because he failed at his job. He replaced a BAME employee and, as of now had been replaced by one.

As for equal opportunities, while it's obvious the percentage of BAME players entering is lower, I'd like to see how it takes in account BAME players taking their badges, wanting to go into coaching/management etc etc.

The trouble with most arguments is their side or point is reduced to the banal.

Exactly. And they look for points where there isn't one.

I have to admit that I don't really care about skin colour at all. It doesn't really seem relevant to me if someone is black or white or whatever, because overall I care about their personality and other characteristics than that.

And it really does become tiresome when some people try and score cheap points out of it. It's maybe a discussion more for elsewhere, but not sure who on here saw the documentaries a while back, think it was on 4, about the school and racism, they basically went and tried to make a whole load of year 7s think they were unconsciously racist.

Whilst some of the exercises were clearly thought-provoking by themselves, the two which were immediately memorable were where they split the class into white and ethnic minority (so a mixed race girl was like "which one am I then" before settling on the latter), and the other being a staged race where everyone started at the same point but then those who had been subject to racist or other similar abuses having to step back; irony being a posh ginger lad ended up still on the line.

Not sure if they're still on catch up.

But I don't really think this argument applies to BAME managers.

 

[siforest65]

All I know is this guy has played a huge part in getting us 3 much needed points. I remember an undisciplined shit show at Reading under another caretaker manager after Karanka left where we finished the game with 9 players

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Bringing it back to Steven Reid - I think it was apparent to everyone how we needed to play and in particular that certain players were playing in roles they simply weren't suited to.

I know today was a free hit for him but Reid set us up how we should've been for at least a season now and not only got the result that we can start to build off but also sent a message to whoever does come in that Hughton's way was absolutely the wrong way.

You've done a great job over the last few days Steven and given us something to cheer, so thank you.

 

[Statto]

I’m happy to discuss this outside of the forum as I feel, being honest, that this kind of discussion generally doesn’t contribute to the overall value of the forum and can get bogged down in nuance, semantics and the like. The percentage of BAME players vs BAME coaches is not up for debate tho - the funnel does not work the same for black players as it does for white ones. I do not know why that is, but it is a fact.

it could be obvious.

Without wishing to generalise, you would think that the likes of Sterling for example, they grow up wanting to be a footballer, spend every waking moment on the streets or the park honing their skills, care about nothing else but being as skilful with a ball as they can. It works, they're amazing players but got there literally through working their socks off at being good on the ball and with no less degree of talent to go with it. Similar to how you see the people from Brazil or other areas just playing street footy until they're amazing at it. It makes them good players but how much does it enhance their intelligence or ability to teach this to others, or their tactical understanding? I've mentioned Sterling, but you could also look at someone like Ollie Burke who is white and has the skill and attributes to be a good player technically but not the tactical intelligence. The issue is the same.

If you're a coach, you don't need to know how to play the game and have done so yourself; the fact a fair number of good coaches who have had a minimal playing career at best shows this. But you do need the tactical awareness to set a team up, train the players and make them better, etc. Could your Sterling/Burke types do that?

Given that actually a lot of top players are BAME, and that a fair amount of top players don't make good coaches (Platt...) the link isn't always there. And this is because they aren't the same job. The progression from player to coach to manager means you need to learn new skills.

 

[Notcher]

I’m happy to discuss this outside of the forum as I feel, being honest, that this kind of discussion generally doesn’t contribute to the overall value of the forum and can get bogged down in nuance, semantics and the like. The percentage of BAME players vs BAME coaches is not up for debate tho - the funnel does not work the same for black players as it does for white ones. I do not know why that is, but it is a fact.

Generally speaking I have had a just below surface level dig into Jordan Peterson - listened to a few podcasts and read a few bits and pieces from him and on him and found him generally distasteful. I find his debating style aggressive and dismissive, his viewpoints generally on the side of populism than pragmatism and whilst I agree that someone needs to check and balance against the overarching compelled speech argument, some (perhaps most) of his views on and statements against feminism and trans-activism are inflammatory at best and phobic at worst.

Having said I didn’t want to debate publicly I appear to have done exactly that and don’t want to waste my post. But I support a club and a city with a long history of social activism and believe strongly that it should be upheld and continually promoted throughout the fan base.

You might be hearing what he's saying but you're not listening. You're massively wide of the mark.

You're obviously an intelligent guy hence why I thought it was worthy responding to you but there's so much confirmation bias in what you're saying. We've all been guilty of it and it's hard to consider information that challenges those beliefs but you're bright enough to expand upon that intelligence if you break free of those political and socialism shackles.

Anyway that's my last post on the matter. As I said usually like reading your posts on here so better to stick to the football.

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[Notcher]

Bringing it back to Steven Reid - I think it was apparent to everyone how we needed to play and in particular that certain players were playing in roles they simply weren't suited to.

I know today was a free hit for him but Reid set us up how we should've been for at least a season now and not only got the result that we can start to build off but also sent a message to whoever does come in that Hughton's way was absolutely the wrong way.

You've done a great job over the last few days Steven and given us something to cheer, so thank you.

I hope that when/if a new manager comes in that he listens to Reid in respect of this system and setup being the one that suits us.

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[Haych]

I really hope Reid stays on with us, from what’s reported the players like him and from today’s performance he seems to fit in with the clubs apparent ideals related to how football should be played.

I think modern football is missing coaches who remain at a club beyond one manager, of course an incoming manager should pick his own men but I do believe if you hire a coach with the same ideals of the club a familiar face will always help, in my opinion

In relation to that idiotic story wrote, Hughton was hired as we thought he was a good manager and sacked as he was a shit one, if anyone saw something other than that they should be disgusted with themselves, this country and the world in general does not need any more division and hatred amongst people.

In other news, felt good to win, didn’t it?

 

[GOBIAS]

All hail the Anal-Littlecle Satanists!!

Love it Alf

 

[GOBIAS]

Interesting the article doesn’t note that Hughton was replaced, at least on an interim basis, by another BAME manager in Reid.

He also replaced another bame manager.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Post match interview:

 

[cheapseats]

I really hope Reid stays on with us, from what’s reported the players like him and from today’s performance he seems to fit in with the clubs apparent ideals related to how football should be played.

I think modern football is missing coaches who remain at a club beyond one manager, of course an incoming manager should pick his own men but I do believe if you hire a coach with the same ideals of the club a familiar face will always help, in my opinion

In relation to that idiotic story wrote, Hughton was hired as we thought he was a good manager and sacked as he was a shit one, if anyone saw something other than that they should be disgusted with themselves, this country and the world in general does not need any more division and hatred amongst people.

In other news, felt good to win, didn’t it?

Well it ought to fit with the so called Dane philosophy in that we are trying to build a wider structure rather than the old fashioned method of the new male lion coming in and killing all the cubs. In other words if Reid is a progressive, positive coach who shares the coaching and mentoring principles the club is trying to put in place and is prepared to work with (and importantly under) the new head coach why should he be worried about his job?.

On todays game-he clearly did a great job. It was a good day-3 points, 2 goals, clean sheet all away from home and no injuries.

Did anyone else think we yet again looked unfit?. All that pulling up with cramp on 70 minutes!!. Thanks something I can never understand, professional athletes by. this stage of the season cycle should be as fit as the proverbial butchers dog, there really can be no excuses and another black mark agains Hoots I'm afraid...

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

So much of that possession was in none threatening areas where we were happy to let them have the ball. It went back to their centre backs and sideways on halfway for the majority, they were also very pedestrian with it so we just sat back in our shape

Sounds like what every other team has done to us this year when they went ahead.

 

[Notcher]

Well it ought to fit with the so called Dane philosophy in that we are trying to build a wider structure rather than the old fashioned method of the new male lion coming in and killing all the cubs. In other words if Reid is a progressive, positive coach who shares the coaching and mentoring principles the club is trying to put in place and is prepared to work with (and importantly under) the new head coach why should he be worried about his job?.

On todays game-he clearly did a great job. It was a good day-3 points, 2 goals, clean sheet all away from home and no injuries.

Did anyone else think we yet again looked unfit?. All that pulling up with cramp on 70 minutes!!. Thanks something I can never understand, professional athletes by. this stage of the season cycle should be as fit as the proverbial butchers dog, there really can be no excuses and another black mark agains Hoots I'm afraid...

Possibly some "gamesmanship" although some were probably genuine. Interestingly I've noticed an upturn in cramping of players across other teams too this season and had wondered if there is more to this prior to today.

There is some correlation between certain types of training pitches and player injury in the past and this is something to consider too.

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[Mr. Blonde]

I blame the cramping on the kit

Clearly even the player's calves baulked at how shit it is

 

[Eddie Yates]

And, another BAME coach to add to Forest’s impressive record over recent years. I wonder if that’s been noticed by anyone, can only be a good thing to have such a reputation in today’s game.


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Couldn't give a toss about the managers skin colour to extent I haven't even noticed until you pointed it out

I'd rather have a successful White manager than a crap Black manager & obviously id rather have a successful Black manager than a crap White manager

Not sure why you think there is anything impressive about appointing a string of Black managers that have failed

 

[Eddie Yates]

Just listened to his post match interview. What a gent! Lovely words about CH, you can also tell he’s loved the experience.

Good eggs are quite rare, I’d love for the next regime to find room for him in some capacity.


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Yeah he came across really well, I hope he stays on board when Cooper comes in

 

[cheapseats]

Possibly some "gamesmanship" although some were probably genuine. Interestingly I've noticed an upturn in cramping of players across other teams too this season and had wondered if there is more to this prior to today.

There is some correlation between certain types of training pitches and player injury in the past and this is something to consider too.

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Maybe…

I just have a bit of a bug bear about fitness. There just aren’t any excuses. It’s nothing to do with tss as lent or football ability and if I were a professional manager I would insist on/do
Everything to have the fittest team in the league. It seems to me it’s a controllable there can be no hiding from…

 

[Listen 'ere young man]

Is it surprising players cramping up after playing football for the first time this season?

 

[Notcher]

I blame the cramping on the kit

Clearly even the player's calves baulked at how shit it is

What I can say about a kit such as that from experience is myself and many others I played with liked playing in very bright kits. It's much easier to catch a glimpse of teammates in your peripheral vision. When your head is down at points it was definitely advantageous to see that bright flash of colour

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[Mr. Blonde]

Is it surprising players cramping up after playing football for the first time this season?

No and I think Colin Fray made a similar point during commentary

Basically it's the first time in ages they've had to work hard, which is as much as an indictment of Hughton as anything else

 

[Mr. Blonde]

What I can say about a kit such as that from experience is myself and many others I played with liked playing in very bright kits. It's much easier to catch a glimpse of teammates in your peripheral vision. When your head is down at points it was definitely advantageous to see that bright flash of colour

The old Jimmy Hill Romania 1998 haircut argument!

You love to see it.

 

[Listen 'ere young man]

No and I think Colin Fray made a similar point during commentary

Basically it's the first time in ages they've had to work hard, which is as much as an indictment of Hughton as anything else

Yes most of the performances have seemed like pre season friendlies in terms of intensity.

 

[magicwoand]

Thank you Steven Reid, first time I’ve enjoyed listening to us on the radio for about 15 months.