Steven Reid (The Absolute LEGEND!)

[Notcher]

Here we go, Tom White apparently

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/chris-hughton-sacking-continues-concerning-114440346.html

WTF??? What has "equal representation in the dugout"got to do with anything. You're either good enough or your not.

These fuckwits actually think equality of outcome should exist. Equality of opportunity, absolutely, yes. Equality of outcome, no, never. The best candidate for a job should always get it. End of story.

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[Notcher]

What needs to be asked is we had 29% possession to 71% possession, stats would suggest we were still defensive. Question is does a win change the way we perceived a match?

This is again is one of those occasions where the stats don't tell the story. So much of that possession was in none threatening areas where we were happy to let them have the ball. It went back to their centre backs and sideways on halfway for the majority, they were also very pedestrian with it so we just sat back in our shape.

Stats don't give context when it comes to possession

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[Mr. Blonde]

WTF??? What has "equal representation in the dugout"got to do with anything. You're either good enough or your not.

These fuckwits actually think equality of outcome should exist. Equality of opportunity, absolutely, yes. Equality of outcome, no, never. The best candidate for a job should always get it. End of story.

You must be familiar with Jordan Peterson by the sounds of that? I am a fan of his.

 

[Harry1982]

How are stats like this actually calculated? Because from what I saw this looks like bollocks.

Also it's not how much you have the ball it's what you do with it.

To be fair I agree with you, one thing I noticed we were playing it into the box rather the shooting from ridiculous distances from outside the box. I don't necessarily think Hughton made players do that.

 

[Notcher]

You must be familiar with Jordan Peterson by the sounds of that? I am a fan of his.

The worlds leading clinical psychologist...... absolutely I am. He's so much more than that though, intertwined with his perception of social dynamics he's one of the modern day leading minds and thinkers.

Douglas Murray is fantastic too, if you love Peterson you'll equally love Murray

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[Bungle]

Just listened to his post match interview. What a gent! Lovely words about CH, you can also tell he’s loved the experience.

Good eggs are quite rare, I’d love for the next regime to find room for him in some capacity.


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[valspoodle]

In any sort of competition, you must always do something that keeps the opposition guessing, do the unexpected.

Have a plan which keeps the other side slightly off-balance.

Something that CH never did; the other side always knew exactly what was going to happen when we took the field.

Today, the Huddersfield staff must, initially, have been completely thrown by our setup and style of play.

 

[Any Time Now]

This is again is one of those occasions where the stats don't tell the story. So much of that possession was in none threatening areas where we were happy to let them have the ball. It went back to there centre backs and sideways on halfway for the majority, they were also very pedestrian with it so we just sat back in our shape.

Stats don't give context when it comes to possession

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Possession in general is a very raw statistic without additional context (heat maps being a key example). Of course the raw statistic lets you know they had more of the ball, but in what areas? As you rightly point out, today we kept them contained and they struggled to get into positions where they could threaten us

One of the perks to getting the first goal is that it allows you the option to control a game even while out of possession, if you have the lead and the opposition are only keeping hold of the ball in areas where they can't hurt you then leave them to it. Hold your shape, defend as a unit and watch them frustratingly try and find a way to break you down

Besides a ~10 minute period towards the end of the first half I thought we did a great job of letting them enjoy most of the ball while we kept them exactly where we wanted them (dead zones). Meanwhile we saw only 30% of the ball but scored 2 goals and matched them with chances created, not unreasonable to say we were a convincingly bigger threat

Arguments can be made both ways when it comes to possession. Of course the more time you spend with the ball means the less chance the opposition has to hurt you, but generally speaking the most relevant form of possession is possession with intent

 

[Bungle]

Possession in general is a very raw statistic without additional context (heat maps being a key example). Of course the raw statistic lets you know they had more of the ball, but in what areas? As you rightly point out, today we kept them contained and they struggled to get into positions where they could threaten us

One of the perks to getting the first goal is that it allows you the option to control a game even while out of possession, if you have the lead and the opposition are only keeping hold of the ball in areas where they can't hurt you then leave them to it. Hold your shape, defend as a unit and watch them frustratingly try and find a way to break you down

Besides a ~10 minute period towards the end of the first half I thought we did a great job of letting them enjoy most of the ball while we kept them exactly where we wanted them (dead zones). Meanwhile we saw only 30% of the ball but scored 2 goals and matched them with chances created, not unreasonable to say we were a convincingly bigger threat

Arguments can be made both ways when it comes to possession. Of course the more time you spend with the ball means the less chance the opposition has to hurt you, but generally speaking the most relevant form of possession is possession with intent

You’re bang on, something we did so well under Sabri. When we had more of the ball we invariably struggled. Stats on their own can be so misleading.

Just like “put two up front” does not mean you’ll carry more threat.


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[Matt]

You must be familiar with Jordan Peterson by the sounds of that? I am a fan of his.

WTF??? What has "equal representation in the dugout"got to do with anything. You're either good enough or your not.

These fuckwits actually think equality of outcome should exist. Equality of opportunity, absolutely, yes. Equality of outcome, no, never. The best candidate for a job should always get it. End of story.

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There isn’t equality of opportunity for BAME managers and that’s the point. The % of BAME players that move into coaching and/or management is smaller than that of white players. There will be reasons for that, clearly.

FWIW Jordan Peterson is a populist riding on the back of transphobia and a redux of the reds under the bed fear painted as ‘neo-marxism’ and socialism.

 

[Rockabilly]

How are stats like this actually calculated? Because from what I saw this looks like bollocks.

Also it's not how much you have the ball it's what you do with it.

Or as my misses once said to me "It's not the size of the gun... it's the bullet it fires!"

 

[Mr. Blonde]

There isn’t equality of opportunity for BAME managers and that’s the point. The % of BAME players that move into coaching and/or management is smaller than that of white players.

Shame that point wasn't made in that article then, instead of the absurd generalisations that were

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Anyway this thread is about Steven Reid not the wider discussion of BAME managers in football so probably best to leave it

 

[Matt]

Interesting the article doesn’t note that Hughton was replaced, at least on an interim basis, by another BAME manager in Reid.

 

[Thomas]

Let’s also leave Peterson out of it as well, I was half expecting the bogeyman “post modernist” to come out.

 

[Notcher]

There isn’t equality of opportunity for BAME managers and that’s the point. The % of BAME players that move into coaching and/or management is smaller than that of white players. There will be reasons for that, clearly.

FWIW Jordan Peterson is a populist riding on the back of transphobia and a redux of the reds under the bed fear painted as ‘neo-marxism’ and socialism.

I usually take interest in your posts and find them informed and considered. This one couldn't be any further from that.

With regards to BAME you state, "There isn’t equality of opportunity for BAME managers". Based upon what? What evidence is there to support that the opportunities haven't been made for those that wish be considered?

Unless you have the figures of what has been offered, what has been applied for you have no idea. Not to mention that you have to consider there might just be an actual lack of interest from BAME people to pursue these roles.

You clearly have a distinct lack of knowledge of what Jordan Peterson is all about. He became infamous for standing up against a bill that they tried to pass in Canada call C16 because the consequences were far reaching and had serious consequences against freedom of speech enshrined in law.

I've had a keen interest in Psychology for 20 years and I've followed Peterson for many, many years now and there are many misinformed accusations thrown towards him, this is another. There are legimate concerns and discussions regarding the huge spike in trans.

A huge is problem in today's society is people aren't allowed to have discussions without being labelled as phobic etc.

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[RichardKeysLovesLingard]

This is again is one of those occasions where the stats don't tell the story. So much of that possession was in none threatening areas where we were happy to let them have the ball. It went back to their centre backs and sideways on halfway for the majority, they were also very pedestrian with it so we just sat back in our shape.

Stats don't give context when it comes to possession

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Exactly, they never looked like doing anything when they had the ball. As opposed to when we had possession it was for the vast majority attacking. We didn’t look overly defensive, and when we were defensive it was very well organised.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Let’s also leave Peterson out of it as well.

Yes. I only mentioned him because Notcher seemed to be quoting some the principles he expounds. He has nothing to do with Steven Reid either.

 

[Thomas]

Bollocks, too late.

 

[Notcher]

Let’s also leave Peterson out of it as well.

Already made my post beforehand. I've made my point now anyway but probably better to leave it at that before it decends into a ticking political bomb.

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[Thomas]

Already made my post beforehand. I've made my point now anyway but probably better to leave it at that before it decends into a ticking political bomb.

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We have a whole ‘nother portion of the forum for that lads, let’s just be happy we won and keep this side clean of political debate.


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[Statto]

I have to admit I don't get this "BAME managers aren't as prevalent so football must be racist" argument.

You would assume that the clubs would choose the best candidate for the role. And that any managers who are good enough or the best available will be appointed.

So yes, there are probably fewer BAME managers and coaches around, especially in regard to the proportion of players. But that discards the possibility they may not want to do it, might be happy with media appearances, working grassroots, doing something else?

It's clear if they are good enough they will get a job. It's just cheap point scoring.

 

[Notcher]

We have a whole ‘nother portion of the forum for that lads, let’s just be happy we won and keep this side clean of political debate.


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Fair comments. Mods feel free to delete my posts in respect of that if you feel it will prevent the thread spinning off

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[Senior Flange Technician]

Anyway this thread is about Steven Reid not the wider discussion of BAME managers in football so probably best to leave it

The article is ridiculous. If he was sacked because he was BAME, why was he hired? He was sacked because he failed at his job. He replaced a BAME employee and, as of now had been replaced by one.

As for equal opportunities, while it's obvious the percentage of BAME players entering is lower, I'd like to see how it takes in account BAME players taking their badges, wanting to go into coaching/management etc etc.

The trouble with most arguments is their side or point is reduced to the banal.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

The article is ridiculous. If he was sacked because he was BAME, why was he hired? He was sacked because he failed at his job. He replaced a BAME employee and, as of now had been replaced by one.

As for equal opportunities, while it's obvious the percentage of BAME players entering is lower, I'd like to see how it takes in account BAME players taking their badges, wanting to go into coaching/management etc etc.

The trouble with most arguments is their side or point is reduced to the banal.

I just meant I think it's probably best to keep this discussion to Steven Reid himself rather than the wider issue of BAME managers in football, for which I'm sure this forum has a separate thread?