Standard of Referees (Sponsored by Steven Reid)

[Chappers85]

Strangely - I think Grealish is the only player who has got worse playing under Pep.
I used to think he was a great player - given the freedom to roam around the pitch causing mayhem. Playing under pep - he has become more disciplined, very rarely takes on players - always looking to turn inside and taking the easy option of the pass.
Obviously a very good player - but not as good as he should be.

A bit like Joe Cole under Mourinho at Chlesea. Improved his fundamentals and work rate but seemed to lose a bit of that flair that made him special. I suppose the team is always more important than the individual, but it'd be nice to see Grealish trusted and indulged a bit more at City for England's sake (although then Southgate definitely won't pick him )

 

[GOBIAS]

Incompetency as recognized by UEFA, and not the PGMOL , nor the FA. Attwell, I understand your ire. But Taylor is an excellent referee. A few tough games here and there in the English Premier League do not denigrate all the well refereed games he has done over the years. Attwell is there because they have been partnered together throughout the season during UEFA competitions. So, unless you believe Taylor has some particular level of sway with UEFA (and given UEFA's attitude towards England, in general, I would question how this attitude develops in the first place) then the basis of any of you questioning his appointment to this game is extraordinarily tenuous. Taylor is an excellent referee, full stop.

The thing is I bet we revisit this again after that game and they will have made a stupid error. It certainly follows Atwell everywhere.

 

[GOBIAS]

Did Boly need to go down when he headed the KDB free kick away? Who knows? But it helped us out.

They all do it, unfortunately.

I think if KDB smacks a football directly at you from ten yards and rather than ducking out the way, or readjusting your body to take the hit you stare it down and head at it directly on your forehead I’m saying it probably confused him for a few seconds.

 

[PynchonForest]

On what basis did he deny Cody Gakpo a goalscoring opportunity on Saturday?

Pure incompetence from someone who thinks it's all about him.

On the basis of understanding what was happening, and avoiding the headlines for the next three days because of it. There are plenty of local referees around here in Edmonton (all terrible, I might add) who would not recognize what happened in that instance, and allow the goal, and watch their game go to hell afterwards. I explained what Taylor did in that moment, and it was very astute, and whether you understand it or not is really not my concern. Smart referees try and avoid controversy, even though refereeing will place you in some unavoidable controversial moments because that is the nature of the position. As I stated in my earlier appraisal of that moment, NOBODY was talking about it post match. Take from that what you will.

 

[uredsuns]

On the basis of understanding what was happening, and avoiding the headlines for the next three days because of it. There are plenty of local referees around here in Edmonton (all terrible, I might add) who would not recognize what happened in that instance, and allow the goal, and watch their game go to hell afterwards. I explained what Taylor did in that moment, and it was very astute, and whether you understand it or not is really not my concern. Smart referees try and avoid controversy, even though refereeing will place you in some unavoidable controversial moments because that is the nature of the position. As I stated in my earlier appraisal of that moment, NOBODY was talking about it post match. Take from that what you will.

So please explain why the trainer needed to come on if at no time the keeper asked for them to come on. The ref f**ked up plain and simple.

 

[Berkshire Red]

So please explain why the trainer needed to come on if at no time the keeper asked for them to come on. The ref f**ked up plain and simple.

and wrongly denied Liverpool a goal.

 

[GOBIAS]

On the basis of understanding what was happening, and avoiding the headlines for the next three days because of it. There are plenty of local referees around here in Edmonton (all terrible, I might add) who would not recognize what happened in that instance, and allow the goal, and watch their game go to hell afterwards. I explained what Taylor did in that moment, and it was very astute, and whether you understand it or not is really not my concern. Smart referees try and avoid controversy, even though refereeing will place you in some unavoidable controversial moments because that is the nature of the position. As I stated in my earlier appraisal of that moment, NOBODY was talking about it post match. Take from that what you will.

I thought your explanation of it was good on Saturday and made sense. But I don’t know why Taylor seemed to be the one calling for the physio. That was quite odd.

 

[Berkshire Red]

But I don’t know why Taylor seemed to be the one calling for the physio. That was quite odd.

I do, to justify his decision to halt play when a forward was ready to score a goal.

 

[Chappers85]

On the basis of understanding what was happening, and avoiding the headlines for the next three days because of it. There are plenty of local referees around here in Edmonton (all terrible, I might add) who would not recognize what happened in that instance, and allow the goal, and watch their game go to hell afterwards. I explained what Taylor did in that moment, and it was very astute, and whether you understand it or not is really not my concern. Smart referees try and avoid controversy, even though refereeing will place you in some unavoidable controversial moments because that is the nature of the position. As I stated in my earlier appraisal of that moment, NOBODY was talking about it post match. Take from that what you will.

Referees are facilitators, nothing more (or at least they should be). Taylor had no right to blow his whistle there just because he didn't want the controversy of West Ham conceding a silly goal because their keeper was being a moron. These aren't a bunch of 7-year-olds playing where you give a bit of leeway of the rules in favour of sportsmanship. No free kick was given. The West Ham keeper wrongly thought it was. That's his own fault. You play to the whistle. If he was injured he should have gone down or kicked the ball out. It's like the ridiculous decision to not give Bayern a penalty when Gabriel wasn't paying attention and picked up the ball. Referees do not get to decide that the rules are only applicable as long no one gets humiliated. And if he's worried how a letter-of-the-law goal is scored because it might reflect badly on him, or that he lose control of the game, then he shouldn't be in that position. And this wasn't a small decision, it's a goal, it changes the game and its potential outcome. Taylor has cheated Liverpool out of a goal because he either didn't think it was sporting or that he was worried about how he might look. That's a great referee is it? Because to me it seems it's rather self-serving. Throw in his particularly bad decisions against Forest the week before, in which he thought an outlawed tackle was okay because he thought Young got the ball (so not only misjudged what happened but also failed to recognise that tackles from behind have been outlawed for 20 years), I think he's at the very least having a bad few weeks, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near another Forest match for the rest of this season.

 

[GOBIAS]

I do, to justify his decision to halt play when a forward was ready to score a goal.

I’d did look like that. But Pynchon came out with a good justification for it. Which made sense, so I don’t t know why he needed to use the physio to cover for it, all that did was make it look more suss.

 

[Apollo11]

Ironically,Clatenburg allowed a goal to count when Nani scored one against Spurs years back.

 

[PynchonForest]

I’d did look like that. But Pynchon came out with a good justification for it. Which made sense, so I don’t t know why he needed to use the physio to cover for it, all that did was make it look more suss.

I think Taylor told the keeper, when he got beside him, he was going to call the physio on. And the keeper complied by going down. It's a fairly easy sell. And I'm not in the habit of "selling " calls (which is something local refs around here do to "sell" their decisions) but Taylor did that at that moment, and I think it was wise. And, in fairness, the keeper acted like he'd won a free kick after the original part of the incident. A bit of miscommunication with a guy whose native tongue isn't English? I would tend to think so. If it was a big deal Klopp or someone would have made a huge deal out of it after the game. But they didn't. Again, take from that what you will. I think many fans are way too prone to jumping on referees and criticizing them. Easy target. Criticizing refs when they royally screw up, sure. But when there is an alternate way of looking at things , perhaps give these things some consideration. We were very happy with Hooper the other day, but remember he was the guy who didn't seem to think Onana had near killed the Wolves attacker in week one, when Wolves were absolutely robbed of a stone PK that was, quite frankly, indisputable. Refs will have bad moments. It's just the way it goes.

 

[Irish Wolf]

I thought the standard of refeering in the Bayern/Real match tonight shows how poor some of the refs in England are.

Laurel and Hardy will have to up their game tomorrow night because they are nowhere near that standard.

 

[REDDERS78]

I think Taylor told the keeper, when he got beside him, he was going to call the physio on. And the keeper complied by going down. It's a fairly easy sell. And I'm not in the habit of "selling " calls (which is something local refs around here do to "sell" their decisions) but Taylor did that at that moment, and I think it was wise. And, in fairness, the keeper acted like he'd won a free kick after the original part of the incident. A bit of miscommunication with a guy whose native tongue isn't English? I would tend to think so. If it was a big deal Klopp or someone would have made a huge deal out of it after the game. But they didn't. Again, take from that what you will. I think many fans are way too prone to jumping on referees and criticizing them. Easy target. Criticizing refs when they royally screw up, sure. But when there is an alternate way of looking at things , perhaps give these things some consideration. We were very happy with Hooper the other day, but remember he was the guy who didn't seem to think Onana had near killed the Wolves attacker in week one, when Wolves were absolutely robbed of a stone PK that was, quite frankly, indisputable. Refs will have bad moments. It's just the way it goes.

I dont think anyone disputes that. What they do argue is that VAR was introduced to analyse and eradicate these moments, so now we have refs having bad moments, followed by VAR having bad moments. Maybe its time to introduce VAR2 for errors in VAR.

Id scrap the entire shambles today, and just go back to the human error, deal with it method.

 

[RianBrice]

Incompetency as recognized by UEFA, and not the PGMOL , nor the FA. Attwell, I understand your ire. But Taylor is an excellent referee. A few tough games here and there in the English Premier League do not denigrate all the well refereed games he has done over the years. Attwell is there because they have been partnered together throughout the season during UEFA competitions. So, unless you believe Taylor has some particular level of sway with UEFA (and given UEFA's attitude towards England, in general, I would question how this attitude develops in the first place) then the basis of any of you questioning his appointment to this game is extraordinarily tenuous. Taylor is an excellent referee, full stop.

Nonsense, he’s bleddy useless! I’d pay the taxi fair to Canada for him to ref your premier league games over there.

 

[RianBrice]

I dont think anyone disputes that.

I do… Taylor is hopeless, get shot of the twat.

 

[valspoodle]

There is no doubt VAR does highlight the ref shortcomings, which are normally just subjective decisions or honest mistakes.

That was the case in the past. Unless it was the horrendous 'goals' which weren't decisions or some others (I still remember I think it was the 1957 Cup Final when Peter McPArland of Villa charged Ray Wood into the net, a blatant foul, which was not given), most ref decisions were forgotten within hours, after a drink and a chat in the pub.

Now they drag on for seemingly weeks or even months with rather pathetic excuses offered. Just man up, say they were wrong and move along, there is no redress; you can't replay all the games with dodgy decisions, so, like the Everton game, the result still stands. The way PGMOL and Howard Webb dragged out the answers they were asked for is just terrible PR and shows a weakness in the system and at the head of the organisation.

 

[Robertson]

There is no doubt VAR does highlight the ref shortcomings, which are normally just subjective decisions or honest mistakes.

That was the case in the past. Unless it was the horrendous 'goals' which weren't decisions or some others (I still remember I think it was the 1957 Cup Final when Peter McPArland of Villa charged Ray Wood into the net, a blatant foul, which was not given), most ref decisions were forgotten within hours, after a drink and a chat in the pub.

Now they drag on for seemingly weeks or even months with rather pathetic excuses offered. Just man up, say they were wrong and move along, there is no redress; you can't replay all the games with dodgy decisions, so, like the Everton game, the result still stands. The way PGMOL and Howard Webb dragged out the answers they were asked for is just terrible PR and shows a weakness in the system and at the head of the organisation.

Yeah I guess the trouble with that is if people start threatening legal action on the back of it.
I agree there should be more of a culture to owning mistakes and trying not to repeat them in future.

 

[PynchonForest]

I thought the standard of refeering in the Bayern/Real match tonight shows how poor some of the refs in England are.

Laurel and Hardy will have to up their game tomorrow night because they are nowhere near that standard.

Turpin is THE best referee on plant Earth. And it's not like teh players didn't complain. But I think his handling of everything is incredible. He hands out cards when necessary, his foul recognition is near perfect. But you can't compare the very best to guys a half level down. And it is easier, in a sense, to referee continental football.

 

[PynchonForest]

I dont think anyone disputes that. What they do argue is that VAR was introduced to analyse and eradicate these moments, so now we have refs having bad moments, followed by VAR having bad moments. Maybe its time to introduce VAR2 for errors in VAR.

Id scrap the entire shambles today, and just go back to the human error, deal with it method.

I can't disagree. I think VAR ruins referees, to be honest.

 

[Strummer]

Turpin is THE best referee on plant Earth. And it's not like teh players didn't complain. But I think his handling of everything is incredible. He hands out cards when necessary, his foul recognition is near perfect. But you can't compare the very best to guys a half level down. And it is easier, in a sense, to referee continental football.

Deniz Ayetkin and Dr. Felix Brych are outside, and well, they’re waving a card at you, and it isn’t yellow.

 

[PynchonForest]

Deniz Ayetkin and Dr. Felix Brych are outside, and well, they’re waving a card at you, and it isn’t yellow.

The English league it tougher to ref in. Definitely. Far more vectors to deal with (style of play--ie nationality of managers, player mix, pace of game, level of aggression, nationality mix of players) and the more vectors, the more problems.

 

[Irish Wolf]

Turpin is THE best referee on plant Earth. And it's not like teh players didn't complain. But I think his handling of everything is incredible. He hands out cards when necessary, his foul recognition is near perfect. But you can't compare the very best to guys a half level down.

I believe you can - if you want so called professional refs to aspire to being better than they are in England at the moment. In general many pundits/fans etc agree that reffing in the PL needs to improve. I don't expect all refs to have the exact standards of last night but many in the PL are nowhere near the standards seen in Europe.

And it is easier, in a sense, to referee continental football....

The English league it tougher to ref in. Definitely. Far more vectors to deal with (style of play--ie nationality of managers, player mix, pace of game, level of aggression, nationality mix of players) and the more vectors, the more problems.

Last night saw two teams from very different countries, very different footballing cultures, with players of varying nationalities, styles of play etc - all those vectors you mentioned.

The type of reffing that neutralised any of the potential problems you referred to simply by being competent, pragmatic and on top of his brief. It's not as if PL refs aren't intrinsically capable of that. The best league in the world should aspire to better.

 

[PynchonForest]

I believe you can - if you want so called professional refs to aspire to being better than they are in England at the moment. In general many pundits/fans etc agree that reffing in the PL needs to improve. I don't expect all refs to have the exact standards of last night but many in the PL are nowhere near the standards seen in Europe.



Last night saw two teams from very different countries, very different footballing cultures, with players of varying nationalities, styles of play etc - all those vectors you mentioned.

The type of reffing that neutralised any of the potential problems you referred to simply by being competent, pragmatic and on top of his brief. It's not as if PL refs aren't intrinsically capable of that. The best league in the world should aspire to better.

I fundamentally agree with you. Of course they should always aspire to be better. But the Prem is a very tough league to ref in AND these are the bets refs in England, not all of Europe. The fact Taylor is on a semi final in the CL should tell you the majority of posters in here who think Taylor is a an awful referee is wildly divergent from what the people who make decisions in Europe think. Again, take from that what you will.

 

[Gyros Peter]

I fundamentally agree with you. Of course they should always aspire to be better. But the Prem is a very tough league to ref in AND these are the bets refs in England, not all of Europe. The fact Taylor is on a semi final in the CL should tell you the majority of posters in here who think Taylor is a an awful referee is wildly divergent from what the people who make decisions in Europe think. Again, take from that what you will.

I've seen Taylor referee awfully first hand.