Lefkasman
Ian Bowyer
Yes, I read he'd had cancer. Hopefully he's on the mend. His life story is fascinating.Hes not been well recently, but, hes funny as hell
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Standard of Referees (Sponsored by Steven Reid)
- Thread starter Tartan Tart Ups
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magicwoand
It tizwas it is
I'm going for Free goal for Luton this weekend. Ball nowhere near going in, refs watch buzzes due to technical glitch. VAR doesn't overrule it. People will post that we should stop moaning about it.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
The death by a thousand cuts continues.
That said, I think fans and club alike should lay off the whining about it sharpish, not least because it clearly isn’t helping.
(Outside of this thread of course
)
That said, I think fans and club alike should lay off the whining about it sharpish, not least because it clearly isn’t helping.
(Outside of this thread of course
)
The day we stop calling it out for what it is, is the day it becomes the new normal.
Bollocks to that.
Call it out. And keep calling it out.
Bollocks to that.
Call it out. And keep calling it out.
alabamared
Stuart Pearce
Not Forest but interestig non the less
Of the 16 league games that Forest have lost this season, only 5 have been by a margin of more than one goal and actually only 2 defeats with a margin of more than 2 goals. Bad defending and poor finishing have been major factors in the 11 single goal deficits. Although the level of performances and other match statistics might suggest otherwise, Forest have been competitive in the majority of matches that they have played this season. Poor refereeing/VAR decisions against Forest have been prominent in more than half of these 11 single goal margin defeats. These are ‘fine margins’, as the saying goes.
On January 15, Forest were charged with breaching the Premier League's Profitability and Sustainability rules. The number of Refereeing/VAR controversies involving Forest also seems to have increased since this date. The normal suspects are attempting to ridicule the hiring of Mark Clattenburg, even though Barcelona and other European clubs have done this before.
There feel like there is some sort of agenda against Forest but unfortunately, we are now being portrayed as moaners. I am afraid that this nonsense, along with the potential points deductions and the stadium problems has all added to the negative vibe and drop in team confidence. We have to develop a siege mentality for the final 10 games and try to just win some of our crunch matches.
On January 15, Forest were charged with breaching the Premier League's Profitability and Sustainability rules. The number of Refereeing/VAR controversies involving Forest also seems to have increased since this date. The normal suspects are attempting to ridicule the hiring of Mark Clattenburg, even though Barcelona and other European clubs have done this before.
There feel like there is some sort of agenda against Forest but unfortunately, we are now being portrayed as moaners. I am afraid that this nonsense, along with the potential points deductions and the stadium problems has all added to the negative vibe and drop in team confidence. We have to develop a siege mentality for the final 10 games and try to just win some of our crunch matches.
ARedChester
First Team Squad
I agree there seems like an agenda against Forest, but if that ever got out the PL would collapse. So I believe there is no agenda against us, but possibly a small cohort of refs who are influenced by WhatsApp level discussions and comments amongst themselves over their perception of the club. This then consciously influences them.
I think the club have been right to call out recent decisions, which over a season would be bad enough, but over such a concentrated period has exasperated the situation and feelings - rightly so.
But, now is the time to close the hatches, refuse any comments on officials, decisions and minimise all contact with the media including player's social media. Send out the kit man to deliver the pre and post media interviews with only 60 seconds of yes/no answers no more. Close ranks and get amazingly angry in a controlled way - return to keeping it professional and lose the whingy, hard done by school boy image - the words and points have been said and proven. Move on as a team.
I think the club have been right to call out recent decisions, which over a season would be bad enough, but over such a concentrated period has exasperated the situation and feelings - rightly so.
But, now is the time to close the hatches, refuse any comments on officials, decisions and minimise all contact with the media including player's social media. Send out the kit man to deliver the pre and post media interviews with only 60 seconds of yes/no answers no more. Close ranks and get amazingly angry in a controlled way - return to keeping it professional and lose the whingy, hard done by school boy image - the words and points have been said and proven. Move on as a team.
Even taking the decisions that have gone against Forest out of it, the state of officiating in the premier league has never been worse.
There does not seem to be a consistent process that is followed in or leading up to VAR reviews and there seems to be very little accountability either.
We rarely get to hear the VAR process and when we do it sounds like an utter shambles most of the time, overseen largely by middle aged blokes past their mental and physical primes that are so comfy in their roles they've forgotten rules and due process.
In the last two seasons we've had an incident where an official plain forgot to draw the lines to see if a player was offside, another incident where all the officials bar the technical overseer forgot what the on field decision actually was, to name but a couple.
All we get are apologies issued to clubs, that the fans don't even see bar it being mentioned by a journalist or manager here and there. If anyone dares speak up they are wacked with a fine and asked to explain themselves.
If an official makes a game-changing mistake then they're given a rest for the weekend and instead get to do their job from the warmth of Stockley Park with a reduced spotlight, assuming they don't make another game colossal clanger.
Premier League clubs as a whole need to strike against this and people need to start talking publicly about it more and more, on phone-ins and other mediums that the Premier League and PGMOL will take notice of.
Otherwise the chance of anything changing, as slim as it would be, is even less.
There does not seem to be a consistent process that is followed in or leading up to VAR reviews and there seems to be very little accountability either.
We rarely get to hear the VAR process and when we do it sounds like an utter shambles most of the time, overseen largely by middle aged blokes past their mental and physical primes that are so comfy in their roles they've forgotten rules and due process.
In the last two seasons we've had an incident where an official plain forgot to draw the lines to see if a player was offside, another incident where all the officials bar the technical overseer forgot what the on field decision actually was, to name but a couple.
All we get are apologies issued to clubs, that the fans don't even see bar it being mentioned by a journalist or manager here and there. If anyone dares speak up they are wacked with a fine and asked to explain themselves.
If an official makes a game-changing mistake then they're given a rest for the weekend and instead get to do their job from the warmth of Stockley Park with a reduced spotlight, assuming they don't make another game colossal clanger.
Premier League clubs as a whole need to strike against this and people need to start talking publicly about it more and more, on phone-ins and other mediums that the Premier League and PGMOL will take notice of.
Otherwise the chance of anything changing, as slim as it would be, is even less.
"Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason."
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
What I’ve noticed instead is what appears to be a concerted effort from the media to paint those that speak up about it as cranks. e.g. just today:
Worry about an all-time title race, not marginal refereeing decisions
The worst aspect of VAR is the way it has persuaded fans and pundits there can be absolute clarity over every decision
www.theguardian.com
In other words, shut up plebs, i’m quite happy with my seat on the gravy train thanks.
To be fair I don’t have too many complaints about the refereeing in that particular game, but i’ve seen similar articles saying Forest (and other teams), should basically shut up and stop embarrassing themselves.
P.S. the match between West Ham and Burnley was much more entertaining anyway, based on what I saw on MOTD.
The thing is, that the really, REALLY awful decisions have cost us significant points. We aren't talking marginal decisions in blow out games, we're talking game turning decisions that look like potentially sending us down...
United away - red card AND penalty both horrific decisions that should have been erased by VAR. Cost: 1 point
Everton home - Yates pulled down for a CLEAR penalty with the score 0-0. Cost: Arguably 3 points because I don't think Everton get back from behind.
Bournemouth home - Outrageous (worst of the lot) red to Boly. Cost: 3 points, we were 100% winning that game.
Newcastle home - Blatant penalty on Awoniyi at 2-2. Cost: 1 point but very arguably 3 if we take the lead at that stage.
Liverpool home - Possession handed to Liverpool in injury time for them to score. Cost: 1 point
Brighton away - Moder not being sent off even though he admitted himself he should have been. Cost: 1 point (could have been 0 but 25 minutes against 10 men gives us a really decent chance of levelling).
This is just the absolutely mad ones, leaving out things like Toney's ball antics.
So that's, I think reasonably fairly, cost us 10 to 12 points this season. We'd be 12th.
The only two I can think of that went for us were the handball to disallow a Burnley goal at home (which wasn't an outrageous decision if a little harsh on them) and the Turner/Wissa penalty. If you give them those two in the interests of fairness we are jobbed 8 to 10 points. We'd be 14th.
If the outlandishly wrong decisions we've had this season had been dealt with properly we'd be happily cheering on Luton towards survival safely in mid table even with a points deduction on the way.
I dislike the whiny tone we're taking and think the Clattenburg appointment is daft but the stakes are incredibly high and I just don't see another team that has had this number or level of plain wrong decisions cost them points to leave them staring at the whites of relegation's eyes. It's shameful for the Premier League and of course Forest are angry. When you think about our season in light of that, despite our inability to play away (still) or defend even basic set pieces we're actually a stay above water Premier League team anyway. The PGMOL have a lot to answer for and it's no surprise that the club have lost it at this point I don't think.
United away - red card AND penalty both horrific decisions that should have been erased by VAR. Cost: 1 point
Everton home - Yates pulled down for a CLEAR penalty with the score 0-0. Cost: Arguably 3 points because I don't think Everton get back from behind.
Bournemouth home - Outrageous (worst of the lot) red to Boly. Cost: 3 points, we were 100% winning that game.
Newcastle home - Blatant penalty on Awoniyi at 2-2. Cost: 1 point but very arguably 3 if we take the lead at that stage.
Liverpool home - Possession handed to Liverpool in injury time for them to score. Cost: 1 point
Brighton away - Moder not being sent off even though he admitted himself he should have been. Cost: 1 point (could have been 0 but 25 minutes against 10 men gives us a really decent chance of levelling).
This is just the absolutely mad ones, leaving out things like Toney's ball antics.
So that's, I think reasonably fairly, cost us 10 to 12 points this season. We'd be 12th.
The only two I can think of that went for us were the handball to disallow a Burnley goal at home (which wasn't an outrageous decision if a little harsh on them) and the Turner/Wissa penalty. If you give them those two in the interests of fairness we are jobbed 8 to 10 points. We'd be 14th.
If the outlandishly wrong decisions we've had this season had been dealt with properly we'd be happily cheering on Luton towards survival safely in mid table even with a points deduction on the way.
I dislike the whiny tone we're taking and think the Clattenburg appointment is daft but the stakes are incredibly high and I just don't see another team that has had this number or level of plain wrong decisions cost them points to leave them staring at the whites of relegation's eyes. It's shameful for the Premier League and of course Forest are angry. When you think about our season in light of that, despite our inability to play away (still) or defend even basic set pieces we're actually a stay above water Premier League team anyway. The PGMOL have a lot to answer for and it's no surprise that the club have lost it at this point I don't think.
GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
It’s also beyond that for me. It’s not even just Forest but the top clubs get the rub so much. How many times since we returned does something happen and it either doesn’t get looked at or it is looked at so quickly and concluded. Yet then when we scored that goal against Arsenal that didn’t look wrong in any way they went through it forensically trying to find something wrong with it. In that same game barely any time over the minimum was played despite them spending about 3 mins on a ridiculous VAR look. Also the time keeping in general, when Liverpool and Man Utd were chasing the win / draw versus us it is 10 or 11 mins. When we are it always seems to be 5 or 6. Not just us like I say but for me it is so obvious the bigger teams get all the favours from officials.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
obvious bias is obvious
Quntib Hollox
Jack Armstrong
Tonights referee in theBournemouth v Luton game I thought had a great game. Let the game flow whenever possible and didn’t blow his whistle when the odd tackle went in 
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Yeah, he's decent.Tonights referee in theBournemouth v Luton game I thought had a great game. Let the game flow whenever possible and didn’t blow his whistle when the odd tackle went in
I actually think Sam Allison along with the woman official whose name I can't remember, and ofc Jared are the best refs in the division.
The likes of Jones, Oliver, Tierney are just shite
donny
Grenville Morris
Rebecca Welsh. Shes on the FIFA list for a reason.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
I expect on Saturday we’ll get Rob Jones as ref with Mick Harford in the VAR room
donny
Grenville Morris
Frank Clark’s Tash
Jack Burkitt
Maybe they could collectively brush up on the rules on the fooking game before the weekend, and save the PGMOL from having to once again get the headed notepaper out for another apologetic letter first thing Monday morning.
Red Ray's Redlist
Viv Anderson
What is not discussed beyond the points these aberrations have caused is the impact on players and fans alike. Its demoralising when it happens, and is starting to create a fatalistic attitude that everything is against us, and relegation is already written in the stars for us.
ubik
Geoff Thomas
The article mainly discusses Liverpool moaning that they should have had a penalty against Man City, and is fine in that respect (seen them given but not clear-cut). The gobsmacking bit is this:What I’ve noticed instead is what appears to be a concerted effort from the media to paint those that speak up about it as cranks. e.g. just today:
Worry about an all-time title race, not marginal refereeing decisions
The worst aspect of VAR is the way it has persuaded fans and pundits there can be absolute clarity over every decision
In other words, shut up plebs, i’m quite happy with my seat on the gravy train thanks.
To be fair I don’t have too many complaints about the refereeing in that particular game, but i’ve seen similar articles saying Forest (and other teams), should basically shut up and stop embarrassing themselves.
P.S. the match between West Ham and Burnley was much more entertaining anyway, based on what I saw on MOTD.
Some incidents are just grey. If Oliver had given a penalty: fine. He didn’t; also fine. In this case, there is no obvious right or wrong. But even if there were, referees sometimes make mistakes, as Paul Tierney had the previous week in giving possession to Liverpool in an uncontested drop-ball late on at Nottingham Forest even though Callum Hudson-Odoi had been in possession when the game was stopped for a head injury. Get on with it.
So that wasn't 'grey'. It was a horribly clear and obvious error. Rather than 'Get on with it', he should be asking why VAR didn't intervene to immediately tell Tierney to restart the game correctly. What is VAR for otherwise?
PynchonForest
John Robertson
Oliver had an excellent game in teh Liverpool-City mathcup. Liverpool deserved a PK, but I am not certain he had a clear view of the incident, as the Liverpool player had his back to his own goal and, as such, his view probably was not great. VAR should have told him to take a look at it. It was a clear PK and caution. I have no idea why Doku would make a challenge like that.
ubik
Geoff Thomas
His eyes were on the ball, but I can predict that if it was a Forest player it would have been a penalty and posters would have been moaning about a naive forward's challenge inside the box.
Timothy Pope
I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
What is guaranteed to happen, in a game that has no impact, is Forest will get a glaringly obvious decision in their favour. It will be against either Burnley, Sheffield United (who will both already be relegated) or possibly even Man City to pull a consolation goal back when already well beaten. I very much doubt it will be against Luton as the impact could be significant.
PGMOL, The PL and the media will then be able to say that Forest can’t whinge anymore and that it all evens out over the season
PGMOL, The PL and the media will then be able to say that Forest can’t whinge anymore and that it all evens out over the season
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
I've posted this before. Jeff Winter tells you everything you need to know about why referees don't give you those decisions and what happened when he did.
It completely stinks. Referees are ensuring that the continue to get the big clubs in self preservation and there is pressure from the big clubs applied to remove referees that don't give them decisions.