Orel Johnson Mangala

[Winnits]

Wayne Hennessy likes this transfer rumour

 

[RedSpoons]

I guess it's like shopping in Lidl. Hope this isn't BUPA.

Except check out seems to take months. The budesliga doesn't seem to throw you out before you've had a chance to pop your midfielder in a bag

 

[Strummer]

Would you see him in that #10 role? Or to battle out with Yates and, possibly, O'Brien?

This is the sort of player we should be going after. The Bundesliga will be packed full of Premier League quality without the pompous delusional value that seems to come when buying from another Premier League team.

I guess it's like shopping in Lidl. Hope this isn't BUPA.



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Mangala isn’t really a #10, he is more effective from deep.

Whilst VfB sometimes played with a #10, sometimes they didn’t, and went 3-4-2-1, with two attacking midfielders in front of him, who often split wider, to create space. He is effective as a more rounded player, because he can do the defensive stuff too.

 

[Ashley]

Give me Mangala, Vranckx, and O’Brien for a combined £35m all day.

Yes please. Those three plus Yates would have those two central midfield positions more than covered.

 

[Cortez the Killer]

Wayne Hennessy likes this transfer rumour

He prefers oral off Mengele.

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[Kjetil Osvold's Cat]

Wouldn't mind that either hah. Not too picky. Reason I like the Vranckx link is

a) we can see by Onana for Lille how much these young Belgians can gain value (Vranckx was higher rated by their youth set up, was transferred for more money last summer than Onana in the same window and is a year younger)

b) I don't know if you follow Henshaw Analysis on Twitter? But he showed Vranckx stats and his pressure rate was incredible and think that could throw a lot of prem midfield out of kilter

Thanks mate - appreciate the reply (again - you were the one who replied to me yesterday too weren't you so you'd have been forgiven for seeing my post as a bit broken record-esque maybe but instead you write a constructive and thoughtful reply - I'm guessing putting yesterday's post together with this one you'd see Mangala more as the alternative in the line-up to O'Brien and I suppose in terms of height and being the one who might look to break through the lines a bit more, and play the more progressive passes that would seem right...but I'm just wondering how much of a true playmaker either would be compared to Garner for example, over the 90 minutes, and I don't know whether Mangala might make sense in a Kante-type role if he could do that).

Maybe in a 4-2-3-1 I'd change my mind a bit: that'd mean an extra player perhaps playing from the left (to use an example I came up with before, and since the Dani Olmo one would be unlikely lol, I'll say that Hungarian Sallai from Freiburg who could perhaps switch sides with Johnson too, so those two plus a MGW and suddenly we have quite a bit to initiate moves and attacks with ahead of the midfield, and at times a Sallai could play in a three or indeed we could go with a wing-back system still in some games and those three could share game time on the pitch in a particular game - I'm not necessarily saying Sallai but somebody like him perhaps or even more of a wing forward). I just think with three centre backs in the team, however much the wing-backs get forward and offer support, we could do with quite a bit of creativity from a few players, and last season it seemed to work well with Garner because he was actually pretty decent defensively, which I appreciate CMs ideally will be, as opposed to number 10s where it doesn't matter so much but helps if they can press well obviously still, but mostly because he passed the ball well in terms of spotting good options and finding them, and he was more than adequate mostly in terms of controlling the ball, turning with it etc too. If the CMs in a 3-5-2 are too defensive oriented or just lack enough in terms of creativity we could turn over the ball quickly a lot, and struggle to put moves and attacks together I'm thinking. Mangala does for sure seem neat on the ball though - I'm just not sure at this point if he'd be making Forest tick enough if alongside a more robust but less skillful player like I guess a Yates or Vranckx would be.

Anyway, Forest will do what they do regardless I guess so we'll see how it ends up and how we do play when the season gets going. I'm not exactly despondent about that or anything yet lol, just hoping we're not short of ball players and can have a really good go in a positive way (and I'm not trying to detract from the positive vibe around the club obviously!). Judging by getting Forest up from where they were when he took over (and doing it playing some good stuff and being 'vintage Forest'-esque at least in the sense that we did use counter-attacks well and also kept possession well quite often) I can't doubt Cooper's plans too much anyway!

 

[youreds1986]

Wouldn't mind that either hah. Not too picky. Reason I like the Vranckx link is

a) we can see by Onana for Lille how much these young Belgians can gain value (Vranckx was higher rated by their youth set up, was transferred for more money last summer than Onana in the same window and is a year younger)

b) I don't know if you follow Henshaw Analysis on Twitter? But he showed Vranckx stats and his pressure rate was incredible and think that could throw a lot of prem midfield out of kilter

Agree with this.

Having a real disrupter in the middle of the park (who is also tidy on the ball) would make a huge difference.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

Mangala isn’t really a #10, he is more effective from deep.

Whilst VfB sometimes played with a #10, sometimes they didn’t, and went 3-4-2-1, with two attacking midfielders in front of him, who often split wider, to create space. He is effective as a more rounded player, because he can do the defensive stuff too.

Cheers ... Another in competition with Yates then. Should this come to fruition

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[RedSpoons]

Thanks mate - appreciate the reply (again - you were the one who replied to me yesterday too weren't you so you'd have been forgiven for seeing my post as a bit broken record-esque maybe but instead you write a constructive and thoughtful reply - I'm guessing putting yesterday's post together with this one you'd see Mangala more as the alternative in the line-up to O'Brien and I suppose in terms of height and being the one who might look to break through the lines a bit more, and play the more progressive passes that would seem right...but I'm just wondering how much of a true playmaker either would be compared to Garner for example, over the 90 minutes, and I don't know whether Mangala might make sense in a Kante-type role if he could do that).

Maybe in a 4-2-3-1 I'd change my mind a bit: that'd mean an extra player perhaps playing from the left (to use an example I came up with before, and since the Dani Olmo one would be unlikely lol, I'll say that Hungarian Sallai from Freiburg who could perhaps switch sides with Johnson too, so those two plus a MGW and suddenly we have quite a bit to initiate moves and attacks with ahead of the midfield, and at times a Sallai could play in a three or indeed we could go with a wing-back system still in some games and those three could share game time on the pitch in a particular game - I'm not necessarily saying Sallai but somebody like him perhaps or even more of a wing forward). I just think with three centre backs in the team, however much the wing-backs get forward and offer support, we could do with quite a bit of creativity from a few players, and last season it seemed to work well with Garner because he was actually pretty decent defensively, which I appreciate CMs ideally will be, as opposed to number 10s where it doesn't matter so much but helps if they can press well obviously still, but mostly because he passed the ball well in terms of spotting good options and finding them, and he was more than adequate mostly in terms of controlling the ball, turning with it etc too. If the CMs in a 3-5-2 are too defensive oriented or just lack enough in terms of creativity we could turn over the ball quickly a lot, and struggle to put moves and attacks together I'm thinking. Mangala does for sure seem neat on the ball though - I'm just not sure at this point if he'd be making Forest tick enough if alongside a more robust but less skillful player like I guess a Yates or Vranckx would be.

Anyway, Forest will do what they do regardless I guess so we'll see how it ends up and how we do play when the season gets going. I'm not exactly despondent about that or anything yet lol, just hoping we're not short of ball players and can have a really good go in a positive way (and I'm not trying to detract from the positive vibe around the club obviously!). Judging by getting Forest up from where they were when he took over (and doing it playing some good stuff and being 'vintage Forest'-esque at least in the sense that we did use counter-attacks well and also kept possession well quite often) I can't doubt Cooper's plans too much anyway!

Yeah I think you're definitely right that the 3 I mentioned are probably lacking that true creativity we are missing with the Garner departure (who like you said was also willing to put in a challenge). Especially true in terms of playing balls in the inside channel, as I think Vranckx (from YouTube hah) seems to spread it wide well.

It also put more pressure on our CAM to connect play more than Zinck did. If we somehow could get Garner, O’Brien, and either Vranckx or Mangala to break up play that is maybe our best bet?

 

[Rzar]

The creativity from the middle needed is a bit overplayed for me.

Most of our attacks last season came from wide areas and running the channels - we are probably more balanced with the addition of Richards now & Williams can probably provide a delivery that Spence didn't have.

Most of Garner / Yates goals/assists came from either set pieces or arriving in the box from one of the attacks out wide.

 

[gamble]

The creativity from the middle needed is a bit overplayed for me.

Most of our attacks last season came from wide areas and running the channels - we are probably more balanced with the addition of Richards now & Williams can probably provide a delivery that Spence didn't have.

Most of Garner / Yates goals/assists came from either set pieces or arriving in the box from one of the attacks out wide.

All of that is true, which means to me we need creativity more in the middle to ease the burden off the flanks.

 

[Rzar]

All of that is true, which means to me we need creativity more in the middle to ease the burden off the flanks.

That's what MGW will be for

I am not saying we don't need creativity in the middle, but for me it's a bit overplayed that our current players/targets wouldn't provide it.

Need I remind me people of players like Yacob, or even Colback - who don't really have a creative bone in their body. Yates, Garner, O'Brien, whoever will provide enough goal threat from CM. It will be more important to be able to retain the ball and win it back quickly in that area than it will be to create goals.

 

[RedSpoons]

The creativity from the middle needed is a bit overplayed for me.

Most of our attacks last season came from wide areas and running the channels - we are probably more balanced with the addition of Richards now & Williams can probably provide a delivery that Spence didn't have.

Most of Garner / Yates goals/assists came from either set pieces or arriving in the box from one of the attacks out wide.

Think it's as much being careful with the ball in the middle third as anything else. Outside of that, just need those 2 players to be willing to run. With the ball we saw later runs from midfield pay dividends and without it I think our press was at times intimidating.

I think we are targeting all the right players for those roles and the combination is probably personal opinion as I think all would be good.

It's the CAM that concerns me at this point. I know I bang on about MGW, but he's so balanced for that role. Not seen us linked with anyone else there that I feel comfortable with

 

[RedSpoons]

That's what MGW will be for

I am not saying we don't need creativity in the middle, but for me it's a bit overplayed that our current players/targets wouldn't provide it.

Need I remind me people of players like Yacob, or even Colback - who don't really have a creative bone in their body. Yates, Garner, O'Brien, whoever will provide enough goal threat from CM. It will be more important to be able to retain the ball and win it back quickly in that area than it will be to create goals.

Paul McKenna and Moussi behind Majewski springs to mind

 

[gamble]

That's what MGW will be for

I am not saying we don't need creativity in the middle, but for me it's a bit overplayed that our current players/targets wouldn't provide it.

Need I remind me people of players like Yacob, or even Colback - who don't really have a creative bone in their body. Yates, Garner, O'Brien, whoever will provide enough goal threat from CM. It will be more important to be able to retain the ball and win it back quickly in that area than it will be to create goals.

The whole MGW thing seems to have gone cold, nothing , concrete been mentioned in a while. Although that thread is hard to follow now.

 

[Vikare]

Wayne Hennessy likes this transfer rumour

 

[Ashley]

The whole MGW thing seems to have gone cold, nothing , concrete been mentioned in a while. Although that thread is hard to follow now.

Yeah, my gut feeling is that the club have probably moved on and are looking at other targets.

 

[Ashley]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547899056839483393

 

[Bob Fossil]

Think it's as much being careful with the ball in the middle third as anything else. Outside of that, just need those 2 players to be willing to run. With the ball we saw later runs from midfield pay dividends and without it I think our press was at times intimidating.

I think we are targeting all the right players for those roles and the combination is probably personal opinion as I think all would be good.

It's the CAM that concerns me at this point. I know I bang on about MGW, but he's so balanced for that role. Not seen us linked with anyone else there that I feel comfortable with

It does seem strange that MGW is the only CAM/No 10 that we've been linked with. Although I think the interest in Che Adams may be due to his potential in that role as well.

 

[Otis Redding]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547899056839483393

Liam Henshaw's final sentence appears to contradict Mangala's acknowledged role.

I prefer to rely on Strummer's assessment of his defensive capabilities.

 

[Worsley Red]

I've been enjoying Henshaw's analytics on Twitter but I have to question just how reliable and robust they are. His "wheel" basically suggests that Mangala is bottom of the class when it comes to pressuring opposition and winning back the ball. From Strummer's previous comments on this thread, I highly doubt that's the case.

 

[Strummer]

Liam Henshaw's final sentence appears to contradict Mangala's acknowledged role.

I prefer to rely on Strummer's assessment of his defensive capabilities.

Mangala doesn’t have to do much defensively because typically alongside him, he has Japan‘s Wataru Endo, the club Captain, who does the defensive role. Endo is incredible, typically making more midfield challenges and winning them than any other player in the Bundesliga.

Endo often does the dirty work of two men, allowing others to get forward with the ball, something that Mangala excels at.

But in the absence of Endo (he served a ban last season for five yellow cards) I have seen Mangala Sontheimern orthodox #4 role, perfectly competently.

(This is why you cannot always rely purely on stats, although I would agree with the rest of Liam Henshaw‘s analysis).

 

[Canadian_red]

While at can't put too much stock in reported fees, you did say there was interest at some 25m euros last summer, Strum, any idea why the new reported fee would be much lower?

 

[Strummer]

While at can't put too much stock in reported fees, you did say there was interest at some 25m euros last summer, Strum, any idea why the new reported fee would be much lower?

Contract running out next year I think (or 2024, one of the two!)

 

[Red Widdow]

Mangala doesn’t have to do much defensively because typically alongside him, he has Japan‘s Wataru Endo, the club Captain, who does the defensive role. Endo is incredible, typically making more midfield challenges and winning them than any other player in the Bundesliga.

Endo often does the dirty work of two men, allowing others to get forward with the ball, something that Mangala excels at.

But in the absence of Endo (he served a ban last season for five yellow cards) I have seen Mangala Sontheimern orthodox #4 role, perfectly competently.

(This is why you cannot always rely purely on stats, although I would agree with the rest of Liam Henshaw‘s analysis).

Sounds like we could do with endo too