Oliver Burke

G

gamble

Stuart Pearce
He's a strange one, I do wonder if he had the right manager, who knew how to guide him would they get him playing again.

There were rumblings of autism when he was here, which could explain why he can't enact a managers tactics.

Or he could be football illiterate and have always relied on pace and power.

I wonder how'd he'd do under Cooper? Not saying I want him back, but I think he could get him firing again to at least championship level.
 
Templeton

Templeton

Viv Anderson
Strummer said:
A colleague of mine is a Werder fan, and the topic of young Burke has come up occasionally; his take on it - and an accepted story from the Werder fanbase - is that the coaching staff at Werder expressed their dismay with Burke because he was in their words, „dicker als Schwein scheiße„ (I’ll let you translate that), unable to understand or follow tactical and positional instructions both during training and during matches.

He was effectively just relying on his pace and power to get into attacking positions.

It’s a real pity, because physically he has all the tools, and I thought his aggressive, physical style would be a good fit for the Bundesliga.
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You could see that when he broke through at Forest. He could do instintive things, and he had the pace and power, but if you watched him when we had a bit of a passing move going and he would be stood there not having a clue where it was best for him to make a run.

With some youngsters it is simply about getting the experience and learning, but sometime the player just doesn't have a footballing brain and no matter how many games they play they still wouldn't be able to read the situation.
 
Alf-engelos Mindminackers

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
MansfieldRed said:


Fairly accurate description of Burke and his career.
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Misses the bit off where he grew a beard in an attempt to be the next Ming The Merciless, and rule Mongo...

7Ih87lD.jpg
 
Strummer

Strummer

Es gibt nur einen
LTLF Minion
Yeah, as I posted in the "European Football" thread, he was in sensational form for 1. FC Union Berlin, absolutely unplayable.

Frankfurt just could not deal with him at all, and it ended 3-4 to Union!
 
MaxiRobriguez

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
He's had 11 different clubs since leaving us 9 years ago and he's only 28 still.

He's only played more games for two of those clubs than the 25 he did for Forest.

There's journeymen and there's Oliver Burke...
 
H

Harry1982

Jack Armstrong
MaxiRobriguez said:
He's had 11 different clubs since leaving us 9 years ago and he's only 28 still.

He's only played more games for two of those clubs than the 25 he did for Forest.

There's journeymen and there's Oliver Burke...
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With him you always get the feeling, had he not been sold and stayed and developed with us that he would have turned into a much better player.
 
MaxiRobriguez

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Harry1982 said:
With him you always get the feeling, had he not been sold and stayed and developed with us that he would have turned into a much better player.
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I don't know.

We were a bit of a shit show back in those days and you never know what the future holds so I don't blame him for taking the chance to step up when it was presented.

You have to think from his point of view he's moving to a club with a heavy backing who are bringing in great coaches, investing in the infrastructure and playing alongside other good players who can help him shape his game.

You've got to back yourself when presented with such an opportunity in my opinion.

Think the reality is for all the pace and power his decision making and end product was quite often lacking. He's also somewhat a victim of circumstance as ten years ago when he needed game time to develop the dominant football philosophy was ball retention and slow build up which dampened his best attributes and exposed his weakest.

It might well have been the case that he thrived at a Forest type team of the last three years or so where his only role is to run into channel through balls and try and score.
 
GOBIAS

GOBIAS

Ian Bowyer
I guess it just shows the fine lines between really taking off and not. It can be influenced by many factors, injury, falling in to the right club at the right time, the right manager that sees something in you, the right on field partner, that bit of luck in a big game etc..

Gary Neville was saying the other day he only got shifted to right back because Paul Parker got injured one summer.
 
MaxiRobriguez

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
GOBIAS said:
I guess it just shows the fine lines between really taking off and not. It can be influenced by many factors, injury, falling in to the right club at the right time, the right manager that sees something in you, the right on field partner, that bit of luck in a big game etc..

Gary Neville was saying the other day he only got shifted to right back because Paul Parker got injured one summer.
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It's the same with any type of job for the most part if you look closely enough. Lots of sliding doors moments which cause you to end up where you are.

My boss (context; earns six figures, isn't much out of his 30's) was telling me his story the other day that he was going to work in a call centre after COVID just to find any sort of work, and then on the day he was due to start he saw another job advert for a commercial support role, phoned them up, bagged himself an interview that day and chose to attend that than start at the call centre. He got that job and then 6 years later he is where he is earning pretty decent money and running an organisation of 250 people.

Would he be where he is today if he didn't get that job? Or if he didn't see the job advert? Or if he was a little less risk averse and opted to start work for the income rather than chance it at an interview?

Lots of variables, the one thing that all successful people have in common which they absolutely hate to admit is that they were in the right place at the right time for something and that on another day, someone else would have benefitted from that luck.
 
Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
MaxiRobriguez said:
I don't know.

We were a bit of a shit show back in those days and you never know what the future holds so I don't blame him for taking the chance to step up when it was presented.

You have to think from his point of view he's moving to a club with a heavy backing who are bringing in great coaches, investing in the infrastructure and playing alongside other good players who can help him shape his game.

You've got to back yourself when presented with such an opportunity in my opinion.

Think the reality is for all the pace and power his decision making and end product was quite often lacking. He's also somewhat a victim of circumstance as ten years ago when he needed game time to develop the dominant football philosophy was ball retention and slow build up which dampened his best attributes and exposed his weakest.

It might well have been the case that he thrived at a Forest type team of the last three years or so where his only role is to run into channel through balls and try and score.
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I think time has told that actually we got a very good deal for Burke at the time, he was dominant at the age group levels and when he initially got in the team but couldn't keep that level up, we got about 15/16m for him and most of that went on potential which he never really delivered on. He hasn't really been worth that at any other time since.

At the time we sold him he looked like a strong / quick player which can cause issues with defences if it's used properly but then he didn't have any other attributes which would be needed and those would take his game to the next level. It's good he's found somewhere but at no point do we really think that the Burke/Assombalonga/Appiah/Cash/Johnson sales were a bad deal for the club (the only one in there which is slightly contentious is Cash) and the same will probably happen with Elanga as well. Gone are the days of the mid '00s where we let our players deals run down and have no intention of replacing them (Williams, Brennan, Lester, Louis-Jean).
 
MaxiRobriguez

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Statto said:
at no point do we really think that the Burke/Assombalonga/Appiah/Cash/Johnson sales were a bad deal for the club (the only one in there which is slightly contentious is Cash)
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With the benefit of hindsight you have to accept that every single one of those sales turned out right for the club, although without hindsight I think most of them were easy enough decisions.

I think the Assombalonga sale was the easiest personally. £15m on the table for a player who had come back from a horrific injury and not looked fit was an absolute gimme.

Think Appiah, Johnson and Cash to some extent as well were all fine as the money on the table was too much to turn down given where the club was at the time of those sales, although credit due to Marinakis for not selling Johnson when we were in the Championship which must have been tempting.

The only one which could have turned out to be a bad sale with hindsight I reckon was Burke, on the basis he did develop into a player that many thought he would become. We also sold him right at the end of the window when he'd become an integral part of that early season and had no means to replace him, so that was highly risky as well, especially as we almost got relegated that season.
 
Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
MaxiRobriguez said:
With the benefit of hindsight you have to accept that every single one of those sales turned out right for the club, although without hindsight I think most of them were easy enough decisions.

I think the Assombalonga sale was the easiest personally. £15m on the table for a player who had come back from a horrific injury and not looked fit was an absolute gimme.

Think Appiah, Johnson and Cash to some extent as well were all fine as the money on the table was too much to turn down given where the club was at the time of those sales, although credit due to Marinakis for not selling Johnson when we were in the Championship which must have been tempting.

The only one which could have turned out to be a bad sale with hindsight I reckon was Burke, on the basis he did develop into a player that many thought he would become. We also sold him right at the end of the window when he'd become an integral part of that early season and had no means to replace him, so that was highly risky as well, especially as we almost got relegated that season.
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Whilst I see your point with the timing of the Burke deal, and that doing so didn't allow us to really replace him, what we also have to see there is that Burke was only a teenager, he'd only played a handful of matches for us, and had he stayed, there's not only a fair chance he might have been found out, and so we wouldn't have had the benefit of a fee as large or at all (and also then having a player who wouldn't ever attract a fee of that margin again) but also at the time there was issues around all sorts of things happening off field. I think it was that summer Marinakis first came in for the club, and that he was behind the appointment of Pedro Pereira and consequentially Montanier, and that EM coming in fell through for some reason (which later led to the protracted eventual non-sale to JJM) and that at that point it was clear FAH's intentions were to sell the club to someone, and perhaps was less willing to put money in (even though the whole year before he hadn't been able to buy a player anyway) and, whilst not quite as importantly, the sale of Burke helped balance the books in a similar way to that a few years before with Bamford.

I don't necessarily think us not having Burke and/or an adequate replacement really hampered us on the pitch that season much either. We still had plenty of firepower up front and it was at the other end where we had issues but then Montanier was never really in the situation to organise any defending (see also: current incumbent). And though whilst it is correct to say we were almost relegated, we never actually placed in the bottom three at any point that season, which (had it happened) I'm not sure has happened before.
 
Strummer

Strummer

Es gibt nur einen
LTLF Minion
Red Ray's Redlist said:
Scored the winning goal for the manageress in her first win.

I hadn't realised he was at Union Berlin now.
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He joined them in the summer from Werder Bremen.

He has scored six times this season for Die Eisernen, having made 28 appearances.

He set a record earlier this season, in September in a match against Eintracht Frankfurt, he scored three goals in a 4-3 win for 1. FC Union Berlin, becoming the first Scottish player to ever score a Bundesliga top-flight hat trick. I watched the match, and it was frankly an absolute ding-dong that could have finished seven or eight goals apiece.
 
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