Ifab Trials ... blimey.

Bonfy177

Bonfy177

LTLF MORON
Premature eh? We’ve all been there.
 
Redemption

Redemption

Chief Eye Roller
Strummer

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Redemption said:
Genuine question, is the opposition here to a blue card or to the idea of a temporary exclusion from the field of play - or sin-binning?

I haven't formed an onion for myself, but I've been thinking about the 2nd yellow and how there is a different threshold in practice from a 1st yellow, probably because it's impact is massive.

This comes after the Bournemouth game where many felt Kluivert should have walked but the ref appeared to have extended more leniency because he was on a yellow.

But if you strip away the recency bias this second card leniency is a known phenomenon in the game.

Does the sin-bin fit in here?
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I could see the validity of a player being sin-binned, as happens in Ice Hockey and Rugby of course.

This would, as you say, potentially deal with the still-frequent annoyance of a player on a yellow card seemingly being given leniency by the match official, if he commits a second foul that might be a very minor offence, but potentially - had he not already been carded - worthy of a yellow in itself.

The problem is though, would there be a scenario where it goes mad, and you end up with eight v nine for chunks of the game, and players wandering on and off the pitch.

And of course. The obvious one - what happens if a goalie gets sin-binned? Does an outfield player go in goal until the goalie comes back on?
 
Bonfy177

Bonfy177

LTLF MORON
Can we get back to the “premature“ quote ……we’ve all been there ain’t we? Or is it just me again ? 🤔
 
Bonfy177

Bonfy177

LTLF MORON
Redemption said:
I'm surprised you're back in for seconds already. Are you sure you're not faking it?
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🤣 I love it man, I normally pay for this sort of treatment 😉, get it fer nowt here.
 
C

Cloughie1975

John Robertson
Redemption said:
What was fake about it?
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The original report (below the headline at the top) suggests it could be trialled in top level football next season i.e the FA Cup (I’d call that misleading,fake and clickbait).
The FIFA response suggests to me we are nowhere near implementation in elite football.
 
Redemption

Redemption

Chief Eye Roller
Cloughie1975 said:
The original report (below the headline at the top) suggests it could be trialled in top level football next season i.e the FA Cup (I’d call that misleading,fake and clickbait).
The FIFA response suggests to me we are nowhere near implementation in elite football.
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In the article quoted in the first post it says

though Fifa, the global governing body, have since said it would be “premature” to involve elite competitions in the trials
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I selected that phrase from the two paras that deal with elite competition

The Football Association was reported to be exploring the possibility of using the FA Cup as part of the trials process, though Fifa, the global governing body, have since said it would be “premature” to involve elite competitions in the trials.

The trials have not been authorised for top-level competitions, however, meaning there will be no sin-bins in the Premier League, and the proposals have not met with support from Uefa who have no plans to roll out sin-bins to either this summer’s men’s European Championship or the Champions League.
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Captain Sinister

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
I wonder if Konate will be suing the beeb?
At 7:40 this morning the blue card idea was prefaced with a large image of Konate beshown a blue card.
At 8:40 the image had been cropped to eliminate the Player's name.
Fake news and AI mock ups on our National Broadcaster?
This country is well f**ked up.

P.S.: i did have a great money spinning idea for the impoverished world of professional football: there are no adverts on the current yellow and red cards. Opportunity going begging!
 
Redemption

Redemption

Chief Eye Roller
Captain Sinister said:
I wonder if Konate will be suing the beeb?
At 7:40 this morning the blue card idea was prefaced with a large image of Konate beshown a blue card.
At 8:40 the image had been cropped to eliminate the Player's name.
Fake news and AI mock ups on our National Broadcaster?
This country is well f**ked up.

P.S.: i did have a great money spinning idea for the impoverished world of professional football: there are no adverts on the current yellow and red cards. Opportunity going begging!
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Sponserd by Everton fans?

1707472893871.png
 
Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
Top response I saw on Twitter yesterday - "I have a great solution for dissent and cynical fouls - it's called a 'yellow card'."

It just needs the existing laws applied correctly.
 
Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
It's also just ANOTHER subjective thing which will, undoubtedly, benefit certain teams more than others.
 
I

IdiotTricky

First Team Squad
Strummer said:
I could see the validity of a player being sin-binned, as happens in Ice Hockey and Rugby of course.

This would, as you say, potentially deal with the still-frequent annoyance of a player on a yellow card seemingly being given leniency by the match official, if he commits a second foul that might be a very minor offence, but potentially - had he not already been carded - worthy of a yellow in itself.

The problem is though, would there be a scenario where it goes mad, and you end up with eight v nine for chunks of the game, and players wandering on and off the pitch.

And of course. The obvious one - what happens if a goalie gets sin-binned? Does an outfield player go in goal until the goalie comes back on?
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But the chief executive of the FA, Mark Bullingham, who sits on the board of the Ifab, has defended the innovation. “The success of sin-bins in the grassroots game has been prevention, rather than cure,” he said in December. “You get to a point where players know the threat of sin-bins, so don’t transgress. And we would hope that it would make the same change [higher up the game].”
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I imagine the eventual, hoped-for outcome is the above. I've no idea how the introduction of red and yellow cards was received and what effect they had on team behaviour during the following seasons; how long it took footballers to adapt to the new rules, or learn to game them; I recall recent Barcelona teams being especially adept at using different players to make cumulative "tactical fouls."

I think the elephant in the room, as others have alluded to above, is the ability of match officials to correctly apply existing rules, let alone new ones. I suspect that, whether due to unconscious bias, fear of scrutiny or the pressure of televised matchdays, this will remain an ongoing issue (unless EUFA eventually goes ahead with the Pierluigi Collina Cloning Program).

The one good thing I can think of if this ever gets implemented is the blue card being easier for the referee to reach for than a second yellow, so scenarios like the Kluivert one become less likely. Also, some teams certainly have more of a culture of surrounding and bullying referees than others; I wouldn't mind seeing any of the Big 6, or Spurs, getting 3-4 players sin-binned at a time, personally.
 
I

IdiotTricky

First Team Squad
Also, just saw this on the BBC:

Meanwhile, grassroots referee Andrew says he is pro blue cards: "It definitely helps. It's not the panacea, but it definitely helps you manage your game. And it's more, for me, the threat of using it than actually using it. I mean, I've done probably over 100 games this season, 80 as a referee, and I think I've used two or three sin bins, but I probably threatened to use them every other game.

"So you can see from that the threat works. And usually it's the players from their own team who help to manage it by telling the player to shut up. So in the end, it works. You don't have to use the sin bin. The players manage it and it definitely helps. No doubt about it."
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Edit: any thoughts, @PynchonForest ?
 
Eddie Yates

Eddie Yates

Steve Chettle
Worra bag o bollocks

Almost as if the Refs are so shit at applying yellow cards for dissent ect that they're trying circumnavigate it by introducing another level of bollocks & confusion

All the problems with modern football I could sort out during me tea break, I don't know what FIFA ect are pissing about at
 
Captain Sinister

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Eddie Yates said:
Worra bag o bollocks

Almost as if the Refs are so shit at applying yellow cards for dissent ect that they're trying circumnavigate it by introducing another level of bollocks & confusion

All the problems with modern football I could sort out during me tea break, I don't know what FIFA ect are pissing about at
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FIFA are merely dancing to the Media Moghuls' tune.
 
Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
I think should introduce the methods for defining witches in important moments. For example, if a player takes a suspected dive in the box we burn him. If he burns he's in the clear, if he doesn't it's a dive and he is booked.

Dangerous play? Throw said player in the Trent, if he drowns the tackle was fair, if he doesn't he's off.

Can't be worse than VAR.
 
valspoodle

valspoodle

Steve Chettle
I have been in favour of a sin bin for years.

But, sadly, our law makers simply don't know how to frame the laws and just bugger up the whole system with weird 'guidance'.
 
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