Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[EmmersonForest4]

I’m all for a global salary cap the problem is it would have to be global. Otherwise we are fecked. Cause as I said financial wise Forest and most clubs are way too small to be in a league with United Liverpool and Arsenal. Sorry we are and that’s the big issue in all of this. Clubs have to spend millions in order to compete. Owners don’t make money. Sports usp is competiveness. PSR quite rightly stops teams from going bust. You can’t gurantee owener investment won’t bankrupt a club, because even if you put a rule in place that any investment that goes into a club is not debt on the club you still have loads of players on big contracts. If an owner walks away than the club has had it.

Plus is that a world that we really want to live in? The only hope a footy fan has is your club gets bought by a billionaire to get any success? What a sad state of affairs that is.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

But then for Ipswich, how would that even work? Because the rules for L1 are different to the Championship, and if a team goes L1->Champ->Premier League within that three-year period, then it just isn’t going to work at all, is it?

It is almost like the Premier League rules are a complete and utter load of bollocks, that don‘t take into account reality, or anything?

(or the prospect of a club „doing an Ipswich“ and going from League One to the top flight within three seasons).

As we're finding the rules for the Championship are different to EPL. So from the EPL perspective who cares so long as it screws the promoted clubs.

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

Erm-Manchester City want a word.

Why, they don't pay their managers that much. The owners other company do *allegedly*

 

[Notcher]

It’s quite simple they don’t want a regulator telling them how to conduct their business. I think what you are saying is far too conspiratorial.

Call it that if you like but a lot of conspiracies also turn out to be correct. Either way I was asking the question because usually in business when someone puts up a huge fight about something being looked at it's because they worried about what might be found.

 

[congo_red_49]

PSR quite rightly stops teams from going bust.

Does it though? I’m yet to see any convincing evidence of this.

 

[Strummer]

Why, they don't pay their managers that much. The owners other company do *allegedly*

„Senor! We will be paying you a salary of 1m per season, but our state airline wishes to employ you as a brand ambassador from 10m per year!“

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Call it that if you like but a lot of conspiracies also turn out to be correct. Either way I was asking the question because usually in business when someone puts up a huge fight about something being looked at it's because they worried about what might be found.

I think in this case it's less about what will be found and more about not having their hands tied by a third party on how they conduct their business.

Banks didn't welcome regulation post the GFC and Lloyds only this week are making 2/3s of their risk management team redundant after some of the regulation got rolled back late last year.

Regardless of the motivating factor we usually talk about regulation in reaction to a problem so it doesn't really matter what the motivating factors are.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Wonder if % of revenue would come with the potential for clubs expanding revenue streams beyond the main activities at the moment. Wealth funds, M&A of non-football business, expanding football operations into things like operating additional public transport for home games etc.

Wouldn't matter if those things were loss making as long as it expanded the top line.

Of course that further disenfranchises smaller clubs who won't have the capital to invest in expanding revenue streams and/or don't have the owners who can write off losses. It's a boon to clubs in the top six who's revenue streams already dwarf the rest and who have the potential to expand revenue way beyond what they currently have.

 

[Rubics]

There was a rumour that the clubs not competing in europe, hence not under the UEFA % t/o rules would be allowed some extra headroom to level up the league. I.e the owners could put in an equivalent of the European money. Maybe this was the bone thrown to the big lad and Everton etc. will believe it when I see it though.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

Everton are the new Derby; Moshiri has the EPL on strings.
Overinflated training ground sponsorship of around £110m, loans used to run the club magically reassigned, including restating previous years, to stadium costs reducing the PSR by £30m over the 3 year rolling period. They'll be selling Goodish for billions next.

The thing that annoys me most is that the focus is just on Everton right now. How are the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth getting away with it. The EPL should be fully scrutinising every PSR submission as part of the 'regulatory' role they laughably claim. Our problem is that we weren’t creative in our PSR reporting like everyone else.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

There was a rumour that the clubs not competing in europe, hence not under the UEFA % t/o rules would be allowed some extra headroom to level up the league. I.e the owners could put in an equivalent of the European money. Maybe this was the bone thrown to the big lad and Everton etc. will believe it when I see it though.

I think this is correct. Teams under the UEFA auspices will be at 70%, and the others 85%.
Pointless when the Manchester teams have a 3 fold turnover compared to us.

They should just let clubs spend what they want but remove the limited status so the clubs aren't saddled with the debt if an owner blobs.

 

[beast85]

Everton paid £30m in interest to lender with links to tax exile, documents suggest

Exclusive: Charges relate to £225m debt with Rights & Media Funding, with records suggesting a trail leading to Michael Tabor

www.theguardian.com

Unless I'm reading this wrong Everton have gone on record claiming moshiri is funding the stadium and not these loans. There PSR submissions however say otherwise. Which is it

 

[Robertson]

Let’s say team A, not in Europe, has revenue of £200m, 85% of that is £170m.

Next season team A does pretty well in the league, or maybe just about scapes survival in the league but WINS the FA cup. Hooray! Team A has now qualified for the Europa conference league. As far as I can tell West Ham made £20m from winning the thing, maybe.

Team A’s income is now £220m, 70% of that is £154m. Or maybe their income is £240m, 70% of that is £168m.

So in order to play in this fabulous new competition, that might involve playing another 10-15 matches over the season, team A suddenly has to reduce its wage bill or sell players to avoid charges from both UEFA and the PL.

 

[andover red]

Will start to reflect what the egg chasers are experiencing. Salary caps in the Premiership have resulted in a mass exodus of English players to France - with the effect ( due to a ridiculous restriction enforced by the RFU ) that the England team are shorn of half their first choice XV.

That's only because the RFU decided to ban foreign based players for representing England. Let them play and England are stronger than ever because the players will be more rounded for their experience abroad. Sadly, power, control and money are more important to the RFU than a successful England team.

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[Notcher]

I think this is correct. Teams under the UEFA auspices will be at 70%, and the others 85%.
Pointless when the Manchester teams have a 3 fold turnover compared to us.

They should just let clubs spend what they want but remove the limited status so the clubs aren't saddled with the debt if an owner blobs.

The problem is Ray they can't just remove the limited status and they can't do it as a theoretical removal either because it has no weight, the Director is protected under the companies act. The PL have zero jurisdiction.Even as an insolvency practitioner myself although I can close a company I don't have the authority to remove its limited status. That's something for purely for the courts, insolvency service and companies house

 

[Robertson]

Thinking about it a bit more, of course turnover increases the higher up the league clubs finish. So 85% of turnover for finishing 17th could be similar to 70% of turnover for finishing 7th or 8th.

So basically clubs should aim to finish 17th and budget accordingly . Why did they all vote for this?

 

[valspoodle]

Bit of a conundrum, isn't it.

You devise a set of regulations to control the growth and development of the game and it all goes wrong, because the clever sods think of a way to circumvent the rules and the rest moan about it. Then you try to sort it out and so on.

Or you leave it to grow organically without regulation and you get a powerful cartel at the top running things so that the rest don't get a look in.

Me? I just watch the football, glad I have a functioning team and let the rest get on with it. Age is a wonderful thing, you just watch the world go buy, content in the knowledge that it was better back in the day.

 

[Robertson]

A cap of about £25m on 'commercial revenues' against PSR would probably go some way to evening up the playing field, and limiting the crazy wage/transfer inflation that puts those trying to compete at risk. Man Utd and Liverpool and the rest will still have loads more money, but that's always been the case anyway. Presumably they won't ever go for it of course.

 

[Notcher]

The more I've seen in the PL the more I wish the Super League had happened. I was dead against it initially but now I just want them to f**k off so we can reset the game.

 

[Flaggers]

A cap of about £25m on 'commercial revenues' against PSR would probably go some way to evening up the playing field, and limiting the crazy wage/transfer inflation that puts those trying to compete at risk. Man Utd and Liverpool and the rest will still have loads more money, but that's always been the case anyway. Presumably they won't ever go for it of course.

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That can't be right at all - Everton's Matchday revenue (red column) (the stuff that they lost to Covid, remember) is half as big again as ManUnited's, apparently.

Or it could be fraud,

 

[Project Zeus]

The Super League was going to replace the Champions League. The Premier League was going to stay the same, just without top-4 qualification anymore. It would have made the gap even bigger

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[Notcher]

The Super League was going to replace the Champions League. The Premier League was going to stay the same, just without top-4 qualification anymore. It would have made the gap even bigger

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The difference is they would have been booted from the Premier League. The other clubs wouldn't have stood for it as they were completely pulling the ladder up on champions league/super league football for any other team. Absolutely guaranteed that fan lead pressure would have forced their clubs to vote for them to be expelled.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

The more I've seen in the PL the more I wish the Super League had happened. I was dead against it initially but now I just want them to f**k off so we can reset the game.

My thoughts exactly.

F%#k them. It may just be that clubs like Newcastle being owned by a state dominate to a point that the trap door opens for them. But, so be it.

Get rid, the rest of us will cope just fine.

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[EmmersonForest4]

This is what I was saying previously, oir revenue streams means there is complete mismatch with the bigger clubs. Globalisation has killed competitiveness and football isnt like proper business. To lose fans is very difficult really of course there can be a lull but to lose fans is very hard, because your team is your team and than you pass that onto your kids. So its a perpetual problem that grows. United have been tosh for years and yet there is hardly any punishment in their revenue. Do you remember when Nokia and Blackberry lost immense market share which felt like it was overnight. That will never happen in football. More so as I keep saying sports USP is competitiveness. I actually am not arsed about the level of product I much prefer competetion. I as a fan am not enjoying the quality of play so much that I cant bear being in the championship. I had just as much fun in the championship and more so at least I had a lot more hope of competiting. However even with that how non competitive football is getting is obvious and even in the champ. This is a subliminal moment in football because this cant carry on. Soon the premier league will turn into Sctoland or Germany with how uncompetitive those leagues are. Even the champions league is getting stale. I would love to see a Legia Warsaw or a FC Kobenhaven win the champions league but its just never ever going to happen.

What do people want at the end of the day? Thats a question for all of you. Are you really fussed about having the worlds best league? Or would you rather have a decent enough standard that is cares more about competition and gets back to locality instead of globalism? In fact I still bet you will get a global audience with the quality of leage lessening because of how we support our clubs and play the game. So folks what do you want?

 

[Rockabilly]

The more I've seen in the PL the more I wish the Super League had happened. I was dead against it initially but now I just want them to f**k off so we can reset the game.

Well said Notch.

F**K 'em off.