Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
But it's not.
The owner walked away from the club when it was bottom of the Champ, and left Murphs to run it on a budget.
It's despite the owner that we are in the EPL.
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Financial Fair Play (FFP)
- Thread starter Hawkeye1947
- Start date
The owner walked away from the club when it was bottom of the Champ, and left Murphs to run it on a budget.
It's despite the owner that we are in the EPL.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
I am not going there with you again Alfie
Unless I am wrong EM employed Murphy and gave him his money as a budget to work with.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
But he, and his close cohorts, had no direct involvement with footballing matters for promotion, and the budget was very modest compared to when they got involved again.
Marinakis may have owned the club when we got promoted, but he and his cohorts - the people heavily involved since promotion - didn't oversee promotion. That's the key thing here.
When they were overseeing us, they took us to the Championship relegation places.
They are shit at making direct footballing decisions, and should leave that to the professionals. That's good leadership. Not trying to micromanage something which you don't understand.
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PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
It was a simple question that required a Yes or No answer.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
That's an oversimplification of it.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Forum would be a pretty boring place, although much quicker to read, if everyone just answered 'yes' or 'no'.
Tiff
Matchday Squad
Yes.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
Alfie and me have 'clashed heads' on this quite a lot recently. I don't think either of us has the appetite to go round again
Alfie knows the answer is Yes - but just can't bring himself to say it
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
No.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Robertson
Viv Anderson
Maybe
Onions
It's a classic business mistake, especially in the entertainment industries where vanity projects prevail.
Doesn't make the owners evil . Indeed, their aims do seem honourable: Grow the status of the club . Grow the value of their investment. Most fans would see achivement of these goals being in there interests
But beholden on us to highlight when they get it wrong . More galling when they show signs of getting it right but then panic at the first bumps along the way.
I do hope that the fan advisory boards make these points clearly. Bring in some more experience and listen to them.
I wonder how the new COO is getting on? All been a bit quiet since initial fanfare.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
That doesn't make him personally responsible for the promotion delivery by the operational team.
I own a reasonable amount of equity in a company who's share price has grown 39% in the three years since it went public. I have done nothing but bought the shares and provided an element of market confidence by holding onto the shares. Am I responsible for the operational success of that business? Yes or no?
And for balance: Marinakis is not personally responsible for the failure of the Hughton tenure either.
ARedChester
First Team Squad
Like you POG, I am struggling to understand why one set of finances, previously accepted under the rules we were governed in the EFL by are now not acceptable for the PL.
Once those EFL submissions are endorsed and accepted, there should be nothing to challenge - we were EFL at the time. A statement from the club would be lovely to explain this, and other aspects of it all.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
You contradict yourself.
You rightly said - you bought the shares and did nothing more - you didn't employ the people who are running the company - so rightly you get no credit for the companies performance
EM bought the club, has invested over £100m of his own money and put the team in place to gain promotion - but he deserves no credit for this?
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Doesn't that depend on the particular company? One that I hold shares in gives me voting rights regarding officer appointments.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
This isn't true.
EM bought the club for £50m odd. That's an asset purchase, not an investment in the club. No money went in in capital injection at that point. You don't get to claim credit for buying something just because you have the money to do so
He then did push in c.£50m in investment in terms of transfer fees and wage bill growth (including future debt write-off). That investment failed as the playing squad assembled under that investment didn't deliver promotion. The only player left from that investment in the promotion squad was Lewis Grabban.
So. Not true he's pushed £100m into the club and not true that even half that money caused us to gain promotion and so no, no credit.
If you want to pursue the "hired Dane/Cooper" angle as credit in the bank then he'll need to take responsibility for every manager he's put in place: Warburton, Karanka, MON, Lamouchi, Hughton, Cooper, Nuno as well as all the key staff appointments: Vrentzos, Randall etc.
Lefkasman
Steve Chettle
Stocky Red
First Team Squad
Yep, understand that, my point is why, at the start of the 22/23 season in the EPL, did we not take advise on whether our EFL position on COVID losses, and promotion bonuses were valid in the EPL. We were not the first club to go through this transition, and the amounts (£30M for both items combined) would have a massive impact.
If we weren't sure (or EPL/EFL conversations we ongoing in the COIVD case) then a sensible position would be to assume worse case and leave a provision in the accounts, rather than assume they were fine and spend against that.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
How do you know for certain that we weren't given conflicting or unclear guidance from the EPL?
I meant football in general, a team could buy just 1 or 2 players for huge money and be in the same position
Stocky Red
First Team Squad
Of course I don;t know, but I think that sort of justifies my point - if you are unsure, or have conflicting information, do you assume worse case and be left with up side, or do you assume best case and be left with a penalty
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Depends on the exact conflict. If the EPL had given us an indication, at some point that the bonuses wouldn't count, but then told us they would at some later point, after we'd planned for them not counting, then we'd have been mislead and have every right to put out the sort of statement that we did.
Just one possible scenario - but none of us know what actually happened.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
You are playing with wordsThis isn't true.
EM bought the club for £50m odd. That's an asset purchase, not an investment in the club. No money went in in capital injection at that point. You don't get to claim credit for buying something just because you have the money to do so
He then did push in c.£50m in investment in terms of transfer fees and wage bill growth (including future debt write-off). That investment failed as the playing squad assembled under that investment didn't deliver promotion. The only player left from that investment in the promotion squad was Lewis Grabban.
So. Not true he's pushed £100m into the club and not true that even half that money caused us to gain promotion and so no, no credit.
If you want to pursue the "hired Dane/Cooper" angle as credit in the bank then he'll need to take responsibility for every manager he's put in place: Warburton, Karanka, MON, Lamouchi, Hughton, Cooper, Nuno as well as all the key staff appointments: Vrentzos, Randall etc.
Buying / investing
Yes - he is responsible for the hiring and firing of all managers and other key appointments - what’s your point?
So all of these losses that he has covered for the last 7 years - has the magic fairy covered all of this?