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Financial Fair Play (FFP)

Red Ray's Redlist

Red Ray's Redlist

Viv Anderson
What has really annoyed me with our owners is the £40m losses in the promotion season.

Even if this includes the promotion bonus' that still leaves us c.£7m over the allowable meaning we would've been in breach if we hadn't got promoted. We literally had no players and we'd have still had to sell.
 
Rockabilly

Rockabilly

GAFF LAD. "Open your knees and feel the breeze"
F1EF74B2-C41E-4282-8F73-AB651D6C7463_1_201_a.jpeg

This made me chuckle. 🤣
 
Y

YouReds43

First Team Squad
Red Ray's Redlist said:
What has really annoyed me with our owners is the £40m losses in the promotion season.

Even if this includes the promotion bonus' that still leaves us c.£7m over the allowable meaning we would've been in breach if we hadn't got promoted. We literally had no players and we'd have still had to sell.
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That is not true. Forest stayed within the EFL limits.
 
Red Ray's Redlist

Red Ray's Redlist

Viv Anderson
On the 22 figures, is it correct that the EFL calculation would allow us to discount promotion bonus' but the EPL wouldn't allow this. That would imply the EPL overrides the formula used by EFL where it sees fit, yet it wouldn't allow us to treat Covid losses in the same way as the vast majority of other EPL clubs.

Surely that can't legally be correct. They've selectively chosen rules that impair our position to a greater extent than much of our competition. By definition this must be anti-competitive.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Geoff Thomas
Red Ray's Redlist said:
What has really annoyed me with our owners is the £40m losses in the promotion season.

Even if this includes the promotion bonus' that still leaves us c.£7m over the allowable meaning we would've been in breach if we hadn't got promoted. We literally had no players and we'd have still had to sell.
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Not sure about your maths there. £40m including £20m promotion bonuses in 2021/22, so £20m loss without promotion, £3m loss in 2020/21 = £23m loss for two championship seasons.

The limit is £13m x 2 = £26m loss.
 
PlayedOnGrass

PlayedOnGrass

First Team Squad
sammy the snake said:
are we sure someone broke confidentiality rules though? Brentford see Forest as rivals, they’ve done their homework to cause as much shit as possible.. there’s no chance BJ would’ve gone… to f***ing Brentford 😂

Just bretshit trying to take every possible advantage, karma is a f***er.. they’ll get it
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No - this is conjecture - but when I was told it was very compelling.
As you say Brentford are a competitor - in the business world there are rules and consequences, if this is true and can be proven
 
Red Ray's Redlist

Red Ray's Redlist

Viv Anderson
YouReds43 said:
That is not true. Forest stayed within the EFL limits.
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If that's the case I'll temper my anger but I was under the impression losses were capped at £13m. If you mean we were ok over a rolling 3 year period but had losses of £20m in 22 I can see how that works. But it would have impacted the next season in the EFL considering we had virtually no players at that point.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Geoff Thomas
Red Ray's Redlist said:
If that's the case I'll temper my anger but I was under the impression losses were capped at £13m. If you mean we were ok over a rolling 3 year period but had losses of £20m in 22 I can see how that works. But it would have impacted the next season in the EFL considering we had virtually no players at that point.
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We still would have been able to incur £16m in losses in 2022/23 - more than in a ‘normal’ year. And some of the players we let go after promotion may have been renewed. Perhaps not Gaetan Bong 😂, but maybe Figuredo, perhaps some others. Would have had to dig up some more cheap high quality loans/signings to actually compete, but that was/is life in the championship.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Geoff Thomas
Robertson said:
We still would have been able to incur £16m in losses in 2022/23 - more than in a ‘normal’ year. And some of the players we let go after promotion may have been renewed. Perhaps not Gaetan Bong 😂, but maybe Figuredo, perhaps some others. Would have had to dig up some more cheap high quality loans/signings to actually compete, but that was/is life in the championship.
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We also would probably have sold Brennan Johnson for about £20m to Brentford giving us some more wriggle room.
 
Rubics

Rubics

Bin VAR!
The point that Robo made - if we hadn’t gone up Brennan would have been sold that summer for £20-£25m. We also wouldn’t have had the promotion bonus to pay out so would have been business as usual for us - sell a jewel to stay within the rules each year. The judgement report even says we’ve a track record of sticking to the rules under marinakis.
Still pissed off with other clubs fans having a dig today - proper lost my rag with a Man U “fan” after he’d listened to the talkshite piece this morning. I refuse to take any shit from twats who claim to support the 6 tourist clubs with the damage they’ve done to other clubs over the last 30 years.
 
E

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
'mist rollin in' said:
Last time I checked this thread was about midday on Monday! Here's my take:

We've been foolish with our spending and we've made some dud signings, however it's very easy to be critical of the club with the benefit of hindsight. I've seen the statistic referring to the squad being worth £12 million on promotion, the closest club to us in terms of worth was Bournemouth at £151 million. We had to make the step up and we had to spend.

We could have had a better approach to signings, we could have looked at the Brighton model, but the cost of a Premier League squad has moved on to such an extent, that it's extremely difficult to compete without spending big; Sheff United and Burnley have been struggling all season because of lack of investment, Ipswich will be in the exact same situation next season if promoted.

I have been critical of Marinakis, I think he needs to lower his expectations, but I will never criticise him for showing ambition and having the balls to give it a go in the Premier League. This season has been tricky, it was a shame it came to an end with Cooper and we sometimes don't feel any further forward with Nuno, however the statement from the club in response to the points deduction was absolutely fantastic.

There'll be criticism from our own fans, other clubs will call us cheats, but the bigger picture for football is that the big wigs want to protect the bigger clubs at all costs... Newcastle cannot even break the cartel. Marinakis dared to take them on and I respect that, even though he does sometimes act like a kid in a sweet shop. Someone at the club needs to advise him that an appeal is too risky, particularly given that our statement was 'two fingers' to the Premier League.

It's siege mentality... back Nuno, back Marinakis, get the displays, boo the PL anthem, tell Richard Masters to f**k off... this isn't playing the victim card, this is standing up to save football. BRING IT ON
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It was only a good statement if firstly we accepted blame. I agree the rules are crap and football is broken financially but without accepted blame that statement just comes across as a whingefest monologue and classless and has ruined the very good points it raises.
 
A

angus99

A. Trialist
Doesn't seem like anyone on the media has read the report, as non off them have reported on the promotion bonuses and covid offset that would have reduced the losses by 30m if the premier league treated them the same as the EFL. That would have left us with a loss of ~4.5m which could easily have been resolved with smaller player sale in June.
Instead they just keep reporting that our losses were higher than evertons which is also not true.
 
Mr. Blonde

Mr. Blonde

Jack Burkitt
The Premier League are making up rules on the fly, everyone can see it, everyone knows it, it's just f***ing ridiculous

I'm done with this season now, all of this financial shit has made it the least enjoyable season as a Forest supporter since the League One days

f*** Marinakis, I don't care how much money he's invested or how much passion he has, he's a ship magnate who knows f*** all about how to run a football club outside of a Greek side that wins the league on autopilot almost every year anyway
 
Steve B

Steve B

Jack Armstrong
YouReds43 said:
There is a reason why Marinakis is fuming and quite rightly so

20.9m in Promotion Bonuses were allowed to be included in the EFL. Forest were told less than a month before the deadline that they can't allow Promotion Bonuses to be included in the PL Accounts.
9.7m of Covid Allowance were never disallowed by EFL but were disallowed in the PL.
So if those things that should have been allowed our breach would have been 3.9m over the limit.
Which would've have mean't a quick small sale would have seen us in line with the rules.
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So the case for the prosecution hangs on us knowingly breaking the rules. When in reality we were only informed of the new made up rules with 4 weeks to go?
 
Ashley

Ashley

Steve Chettle
Mr. Blonde said:
The Premier League are making up rules on the fly, everyone can see it, everyone knows it, it's just f***ing ridiculous

I'm done with this season now, all of this financial shit has made it the least enjoyable season as a Forest supporter since the League One days

f*** Marinakis, I don't care how much money he's invested or how much passion he has, he's a ship magnate who knows f*** all about how to run a football club outside of a Greek side that wins the league on autopilot almost every year anyway
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Completely agree. The incompetence at the club (on and off the pitch) and the Premier League have turned this season into an absolute shitshow.

We are lucky that the bottom three are so bad that we still have a chance of survival.
 
Wickio

Wickio

Robbie Findley
EmmersonForest4 said:
It was only a good statement if firstly we accepted blame. I agree the rules are crap and football is broken financially but without accepted blame that statement just comes across as a whingefest monologue and classless and has ruined the very good points it raises.
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Isn't the reason we got 4 points rather than 6 because we accepted culpability and cooperated throughout? The commission and PL have noted that the club raised awareness of the breach at the earliest opportunity, hence why we have been treated with a degree of leniency.
 
B

BristolfaninPeace

Youth Team
The 3 years to 2022 or the p4riod ending 2022 is actually an interesting one.

Remember EFL debt write off doesn't reduce losses, oddly seems to in PL. Then the Covid losses hard to say isn't it, for there was a £2.5m cap on the 3rd year. Might have been challenged later under review had Nottingham Forest stayed down and not sold anyone by June 30th 2022.

Think the combined Covid year was £3m, which means the Covid-19 costs were stated in the Accounts and by process of elimination 5hr debt write off must've been allowed by the PL and £5-6m in FFP Allowables.

Could easily make a case of provided no sales, anything from right on the line to maybe £5-10m over if no sales occurred.

I'm taking the £40m stated loss and knocking off the £20m in Promotion Bonuses.

Still don't get the Promotion Bonuses post Promotion though, how long has it been excluded.
 
Y

YellowBelly Red

Viv Anderson
angus99 said:
Doesn't seem like anyone on the media has read the report, as non off them have reported on the promotion bonuses and covid offset that would have reduced the losses by 30m if the premier league treated them the same as the EFL. That would have left us with a loss of ~4.5m which could easily have been resolved with smaller player sale in June.
Instead they just keep reporting that our losses were higher than evertons which is also not true.
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Interestingly, the minus £4.5 million was the figure, that I was told by someone that plays golf with someone high up in the club, a few months ago. I didn't put it out for general consumption, as it was said in confidence.

I would wait until all the appeals timelines have gone, apparently the PL gets two weeks to decide on an appeal against our sanction, and then get our KC, along with forensic accountants, to do a press conference at the City Ground. Get all the media along, and present our findings and show what a sham some of this process is.
 
Strummer

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Mr. Blonde said:
The Premier League are making up rules on the fly, everyone can see it, everyone knows it, it's just f***ing ridiculous

I'm done with this season now, all of this financial shit has made it the least enjoyable season as a Forest supporter since the League One days

f*** Marinakis, I don't care how much money he's invested or how much passion he has, he's a ship magnate who knows f*** all about how to run a football club outside of a Greek side that wins the league on autopilot almost every year anyway
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Careful Blondie! You’ll have his rabid defenders calling you out for this damning (and somewhat correct) indictment of the ownership.

Or accuse young being a socialist and encouraging you to go and knock one off.
 
REDDERS78

REDDERS78

Jack Armstrong
garibaldi said:
Remember when some fans were saying "why should you care, it's not your money", when some of us questioned the reckless spending each window and whether we needed half the gumpf we signed.

Well the chickens have come home to roost.
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Were they the same people claiming we would be relegated last season too? 😂

Their hissy fits made no difference then, and they make no difference now.

Its done, time to go and get some points.
 
enlightened

enlightened

First Team Squad
Louth Red said:
To those who condone the owner’s actions -

would you support another similar action to breach financial rules in a future year?
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It depends entirely on the result of those actions. Someone has to stand up to the cartel at some point otherwise we're stuck with it for ever. If we break the rules and it makes us stronger as a club and we don't get relegated as a result then I'm absolutely fine with it.
 
Y

YouReds43

First Team Squad
YellowBelly Red said:
Interestingly, the minus £4.5 million was the figure, that I was told by someone that plays golf with someone high up in the club, a few months ago. I didn't put it out for general consumption, as it was said in confidence.

I would wait until all the appeals timelines have gone, apparently the PL gets two weeks to decide on an appeal against our sanction, and then get our KC, along with forensic accountants, to do a press conference at the City Ground. Get all the media along, and present our findings and show what a sham some of this process is.
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interesting, PL unlikely to appeal as they know there method of sanction was an absolute sham. I think we could appeal but then drop it if we start picking up results and Everton get more than us.
 
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