TV Ground Debate

[Senior Flange Technician]

Far we have travelled
And much we have seen,
Goodison, Anfield
Are places we’ve been,
Maine Road, Old Trafford
Still echo to the sounds,
Of the boys in the red shirts
From the City Ground,

City Ground
Oh mist rolling in from the Trent,
My desire, is always to be here
Oh City Ground.

 

[Dawg]

One thing that would make me slighty involved could be like someone said, some community thing. For example - say NFFC release 5 different design options for the new stadium? or 3 different new stadium packages (e.g 45k with 3 tiers bowl..... 50k with 2 tiers.... 45k with 4 seperate stands)..... and let Nottingham decide??

Then let us name the stadium. Let the fans decide. Maybe even name the stands too? Forget sponsor names.. we can have them named after our top 3 players of all time + Peter Taylor.

Then maybe a dedicated website for suggestions for the design. Like say, a 'Forest Walkway' or something similar to Wembley way that leads to the stadium from the City or something.

They need to make us feel involved, otherwise it just feels like theyre building it for a tournament that Forest dont even play in. :

 

[incapable hulk]

[quote='Sir' Flagman ]
...or they could ask us and realise that the majority want to stay at the CG....
[/quote]

And then watch as over the course of the next decade the city ground falls apart around us and we get left behind with a stadium that eventually wont be compliant with premiership regulations (if we get back there) as advances are made.

*edit*

I doubt anyone really wants to move from the cg, i know i dont. But if staying there isnt really a realistic option for redevelopment for anything beyond a short term develoment- why not grab something new with both hands?
Just hopefully they pick a better location that gamston.

 

[Forest Jonny]

My Villa supporting mate reckons VP pulled out

 

[Ravi]

I think shes just determined to fight the labour council, and undermine everything they do. I dislike both, and its ridiculous that everything they do comes off as a points scoring excercise- than actually of being of benefit to the community.

Councillor cutts got elected by lying, im sure the city councillors did the same.

Its a shocking state of affairs, and both should spend more time trying to sort out whats genuinely best for the people of this city and county and the supporters of nottingham forest football clubs. Rather than thier own silly agendas.

Well said.

 

[Bridgfordred79]

And then watch as over the course of the next decade the city ground falls apart around us and we get left behind with a stadium that eventually wont be compliant with premiership regulations (if we get back there) as advances are made.

*edit*

I doubt anyone really wants to move from the cg, i know i dont. But if staying there isnt really a realistic option for redevelopment for anything beyond a short term develoment- why not grab something new with both hands?
Just hopefully they pick a better location that gamston.

What are the Premiership Ground regulations?

 

[cknu]

What? That's way off.

The exact requirement for 2018/2022 hasn't been officially disclosed, but in the past few years they've insisted on a geographical spread of both stadiums and matches, with a minimum of 10 stadiums and 9 cities. If they were ever going to make an exception, then South Africa would've been it.

You could try and be cute about it, claiming that Old Trafford isn't technically in Manchester, Evertons new ground won't be in Liverpool, and that all the London boroughs are separate entities, etc, but I doubt that'd fly with FIFA.

Err that was based on the cities who have declared intention to host for the bid..

http://www.england2018bid.com/hostcity/

and
http://www.2018england.co.uk/2018-stadiums.html

 

[It's Baggio]

The 2nd link you posted has 4 stadiums not included in any bid (Chelsea, Reading, Southampton and Coventry) and doesn't include ourselves, Pompey and Leeds who are.

 

[cknu]

The 2nd link you posted has 4 stadiums not included in any bid (Chelsea, Reading, Southampton and Coventry) and doesn't include ourselves, Pompey and Leeds who are.

I think the 2nd one with the execption of Liverpool are the current "grounds with possibility" - also only 16 host cities have been put forward and not geographically diverse so if you need two per group they'd fill in.

 

[It's Baggio]

I think the 2nd one with the execption of Liverpool are the current "grounds with possibility" - also only 16 host cities have been put forward and not geographically diverse so if you need two per group they'd fill in.

They haven't bid so they won't be filling in.

The host stadia will come from the 16 cities that have bid.

 

[incident]

Err that was based on the cities who have declared intention to host for the bid..

http://www.england2018bid.com/hostcity/

and
http://www.2018england.co.uk/2018-stadiums.html

Not sure what you're trying to say here..

Neither of those links suggests that you're allowed "2 stadiums per city" as you originally stated..

In fact on that second link it specifically says:

A further current regulation is that only two of the stadiums can be in the same city.

Realistically, that city is always going to be London which pretty much rules out one of the Manchester grounds, one of the Scouse grounds, and whichever grounds end up being 3rd/4th choice in London.

I think the 2nd one with the execption of Liverpool are the current "grounds with possibility" - also only 16 host cities have been put forward and not geographically diverse so if you need two per group they'd fill in.

You don't need "two per group". You need 10, total.

More than 10 will be submitted in the bid to FIFA, and then the list will be narrowed down even further at a later stage. So it's possible that 2 Manchester grounds, 2 Liverpool grounds, 2 Birmingham grounds are included in the bid, but only 1 of each could eventually become a host.

 

[cknu]

Not sure what you're trying to say here..

Was just trying to query why you stated my original post of the host cities was "way off?". :wub:

Anyhow we wont get anything - it'll go to D*rby or the crisp packet as we'll still be haggling over planning!

 

[JoeBaker]

Either that or there is truth in the alleged rumour that Cutts (what a perfect name for a Tory ;D) and her cronies have a vested interest in the Gamston land being used for another development.

You could make exactly the same accusation about the City Counci and the City Ground land. After the Iceland debacle selling that land would certainly fill the coffers back up.

 

[cknu]

And then watch as over the course of the next decade the city ground falls apart around us and we get left behind with a stadium that eventually wont be compliant with premiership regulations (if we get back there) as advances are made.

*edit*

I doubt anyone really wants to move from the cg, i know i dont. But if staying there isnt really a realistic option for redevelopment for anything beyond a short term develoment- why not grab something new with both hands?
Just hopefully they pick a better location that gamston.

Yeah have to agree, just a bit surprised how many fans on this site are not interested in the sake of the clubs long-term future. Doughtys pockets are not bottomless and if we got into the Prem you can just see the clubs headlines "can't afford new players as we have to patch up the stadium".

Also it takes years to plan/design and so if we did get back we would then have at least a season with a ground capacity of about 24,000 (maybe less as they would close the lower Bridgford exits into the Main Stand Car park). Most of the big clubs would sell out the lower tier for away fans.

 

[yam]

What input do the city council have? Aren't the CG and Gamston both outside their "territory"?

 

[Timothy Pope]

What input do the city council have? Aren't the CG and Gamston both outside their "territory"?

They own the CG and stand to make a lot of money should they build exclusive waterfront properties on the land

 

[yam]

What are the Premiership Ground regulations?

YOu asked - its long winded but here it is...

SECTION I
GROUND CRITERIA
Safety Certificate
1. Subject to Rule I.2, each Club shall hold a current safety certificate issued in accordance with
the provisions of the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975.
2. If a Club has a ground-sharing agreement it shall be a term thereof that either the Club or the
other party to the agreement shall hold a current safety certificate.
Ownership of Ground and Training Facilities
3. Each Club shall either own its ground and training facilities or have a legally enforceable
agreement with its owner for its use by the Club, expiring not earlier than the end of the
current Season.
Ground Sharing
4. No Club shall have or enter into a ground-sharing agreement unless the agreement contains
a legally enforceable provision to the effect that the playing of the Club’s League Matches
shall always take precedence over the activities of the other party to the agreement.
Ground Registration
5. Each Club shall register its ground with the Secretary and no Club shall remove to another
ground without first obtaining the written consent of the Board, such consent not to be
unreasonably withheld.
6. In considering whether to give any such consent, the Board shall have regard to all the
circumstances of the case and shall not consent unless reasonably satisfied that such consent:
6.1 would be consistent with the objects of the Company as set out in the Memorandum;
6.2 would be appropriate having in mind the relationship (if any) between the locality with
which by its name or otherwise the applicant Club is traditionally associated and that
in which such Club proposes to establish its ground;
6.3 would not adversely affect such Club’s Officials, Players, supporters, shareholders,
sponsors and others having an interest in its activities;
6.4 would not have an adverse effect on Visiting Clubs;
6.5 would not adversely affect Clubs (or Football League clubs) having their registered
grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location; and
6.6 would enhance the reputation of the League and promote the game of association
football generally.
129
RULES: SECTION I
All Seater Grounds
7. Spectators admitted to a registered ground shall be offered only seated accommodation, the
majority of which shall be covered, and there shall be no standing terraces.
Ground Regulations
8. Each Club shall ensure that sufficient copies of the official notice entitled “Ground Regulations”
published by the Company and the Football League are displayed prominently at its ground.
Covered Stadia
9. Any Club applying for planning permission to cover or partially cover the playing area of its
stadium with a fixed or moveable roof shall provide to the Board a copy of its application
together with copies of all submitted plans.
10. No League Match shall take place at any stadium where during the playing of the League
Match the playing area is covered or partially covered by a fixed or moveable roof without the
prior written approval of the Board. Before giving or refusing to give any such approval the
Board shall consult with all Clubs and shall take into account their representations.
Dressing Rooms
11. Each Club shall provide dressing rooms for Players the minimum area of which (excluding
showers, baths and toilets) shall be 30 square metres.
Drug-testing Room
12. Each Club shall provide accommodation capable of being used as a drug-testing room which
shall be near the Players’ and Match Officials’ dressing rooms and inaccessible to the public
and media. The Board may caution any Club which fails to comply with this Rule or exercise
its summary jurisdiction and impose a fine.
Media Facilities
13. At each LeagueMatch, the Home Club shall provide press facilities to the followingminimumstandard:
13.1 50 press seats located near the press working area in the stadium and giving a good view
of the pitch;
13.2 each press seat shall have a desk top, an electricity supply, a clear view of a television
monitor and, unless the Home Club is able to provide sufficient telephone lines or an
adequate wi-fi system to meet demand, a telephone socket;
13.3 a working area located in the same stand as the teams’ dressing rooms and comprising a
room of minimum 50 square metres equipped with 15 individual or linked work stations;
13.4 each work station shall have its own electricity supply and telephone socket;
13.5 refreshment facilities of a standard to be determined by the Home Club shall be made
available for a reasonable period before and after the League Match and at half time.
130
RULES: SECTION I
14. At each League Match, the Home Club shall provide broadcasting facilities to the following
minimum standard:
14.1 18 commentary positions located on a gantry or other suitable position for exclusive
use by UK Broadcasters;
14.2 12 television commentary positions located on a gantry or other suitable position for
exclusive use by Overseas Broadcasters including one suitable position to enable
pictures to be transmitted via a mini-camera;
14.3 The commentary positions referred to in Rule 14.1 and Rule 14.2 shall be situated on
the same side of the pitch as the host Broadcaster’s main camera position;
14.4 15 commentary positions for use by Radio Broadcasters and any radio broadcasters with
whom the Club or its opponent has entered into a Club Radio Contract, each such
position situated as close to the halfway line as possible and with a clear view of a
television monitor, and if such positions are situated in a press box then they shall be
separated from adjoining press positions by a soundproof screen or gangway;
14.5 5 suitable positions pitchside to enable 3 International Broadcasters and 2 UK
Broadcasters to broadcast pitchside pre-match, at half-time and post-match;
14.6 2 suitable covered areas for television interviews undertaken by UK Broadcasters and
Overseas Broadcasters, situated in the same stand as those Broadcasters’ commentary
positions and each with sufficient space to accommodate a standard size interview
backdrop and situated so that each may be used without interfering with the use of the
other, access to which shall be appropriately restricted and stewarded;
14.7 a secure area outside and adjacent to the stadium of at least 1000 square metres for the
exclusive use of UK Broadcasters’ and Overseas Broadcasters’ vehicles and equipment;
14.8 camera positions, microphone positions, any further commentary positions and any
ancillary facilities in each case as agreed with Broadcasters.
15. If a Club fails to provide any of the facilities required by Rules I.13 or I.14, the Board may
withhold from that Club its share of Overseas Broadcasting Money to which it would
otherwise be entitled pursuant to Rule C.37 until such time as it has provided those facilities.
Facilities for Photographers
16. At each League Match, the Home Club shall provide facilities for photographers to the
following minimum standard:
16.1 pitch side access for 20 photographers and messengers and, at the discretion of the
Home Club’s Safety Officer, appropriate pitch side wiring;
16.2 bibs bearing the word “Photographer” on the rear, numbered consecutively, the numbers
appearing on both the front and rear of the bib;
16.3 bibs of a different colour bearing the word “Messenger” on the rear and similarly numbered;
131
RULES: SECTION I
16.4 a stewarded working area or wire room of 20 square metres equipped with 8 ISDN lines,
16 power points, a television monitor, shelves to support lap top computers and
refreshment facilities.
17. The registered ground of each Club shall be hardwired to the satisfaction of the Board for the
benefit of Broadcasters and the hardwiring shall at all times be maintained in good working
order.
18. Any Club which is unable to comply with Rules I.11, I.13, I.14 and I.16 may make application
to the Board to be allowed time to do so and the Board in its absolute discretion may allow
such time for compliance as it thinks fit.
Security
19. In order to safeguard the Players, directors and Officials of a Visiting Club and Match Officials
upon their arrival at and departure from a League Match, each Home Club shall procure that:
19.1 the Visiting Club’s team coach is able to park adjacent to the Players’ entrance;
19.2 barriers are placed so as to prevent members of the public gaining access to the area
between the team coach and the Players’ entrance;
19.3 a parking area is provided for directors and Officials of the Visiting Club and Match
Officials close to their respective points of entry to the stadium;
19.4 the Players’ entrance as well as the parking area and the points of entry referred to are
adequately policed or stewarded.
20. Each Home Club shall further procure that Players and Match Officials are provided with a safe
and secure means of access to and egress from the pitch prior to the kick-off of a League Match,
at the beginning and end of the half-time interval and upon the conclusion of the match.
The Pitch
21. In League Matches the length of the pitch shall be not more than 110 metres nor less than
100 metres and its breadth not more than 75 metres nor less than 64 metres.
22. For UEFA club competitions the pitch must measure 105 metres in length by 68 metres in
breadth exactly. If for technical reasons of a construction related nature it is impossible to
achieve the required dimensions a UEFA Club Licence may nevertheless be granted provided
that the pitch is minimum 100 metres to maximum 105 metres in length by minimum 64
metres to maximum 68 metres in breadth.
23. A Club shall register the dimensions of its pitch before the commencement of each Season by
giving written notice thereof in Form 12 to the Secretary.
132
RULES: SECTION I
24. The Board may at any time require a Club to obtain and submit to the Secretary a report by
an independent expert certifying its pitch dimensions.
25. No Club shall alter the dimensions of its pitch during the Season without the prior written
consent of the Board.
26. Each Club shall take all reasonable steps to maintain its pitch in good condition throughout
the Season and the Board may require a Club to take such steps as the Board shall specify if
it is not satisfied that the pitch is being maintained to an adequate standard.
27. Each Club shall provide and maintain at its registered ground an undersoil heating system or
some other adequate system of pitch protection to the reasonable satisfaction of the Board
which shall be operated to the extent necessary to procure, so far as is reasonably possible,
that the pitch is playable on the occasion of each home League Match.
Pitch Protection
28. In order to protect the pitch, unless otherwise mutually agreed between both participating
Clubs, the following procedures shall be adopted by Players and Officials in the periods
immediately before and after a League Match and at half time:
28.1 the pitch shall not be used by Players for warming up until 45 minutes before the
kick-off time;
28.2 warming up by either team shall not last for more than 30 minutes;
28.3 if portable goals are provided they shall be used for all goalkeeping drills other than
crossing practice;
28.4 the goalmouth area shall be used by goalkeepers only if portable goals are not provided
or for crossing practice and then only for not more than 20 minutes;
28.5 for the purposes of warming up each team shall use only part of the pitch between the
edge of a penalty area and the half way line or as otherwise directed by the groundsman;
28.6 all speed and stamina work shall be undertaken off the pitch parallel to the touchline
opposite the side to be patrolled by the assistant referee or, in the absence of sufficient
space, in that part of the pitch described in Rule I.28.5 above or as otherwise directed
by the groundsman;
28.7 only substitute Players who have then not played in the League Match may warm up at
half time when the requirements of Rules I.28.5 and I.28.6 shall apply and substitute
goalkeepers shall use the goalmouth areas only for crossing practice;
28.8 substitute Players using the pitch at half time as aforesaid shall give due consideration
to any other activity or entertainment taking place on the pitch at the same time;
28.9 the Home Club may water the pitch at half time provided that it gives reasonable notice
to the referee and the other Club that it intends to do so and that any such watering is
carried out evenly over the entire length and width of the pitch.
133
RULES: SECTION I
28.10any warming down after the conclusion of the League Match shall last for no longer
than 15 minutes and for that purpose neither penalty area shall be used.
Artificial Surfaces
29. No League Match shall be played on an Artificial Surface.
Trainer’s Bench Facilities
30. Each Club shall provide separate trainer’s benches adjacent to the pitch for the sole use of
team officials, medical staff and substitute Players of each of the Home Club and the Visiting
Club. Such trainer’s benches shall be clearly marked ‘Home’ and ‘Away’, shall have direct access
onto the pitch, shall be located equidistant from the halfway line, shall be under cover and
shall each be capable of seating not less than 11 persons.
Technical Areas
31. The technical areas shall include the trainer’s benches required by Rule I.30 and shall extend
1 metre either side of each and to within 1 metre of the touchline.
32. The boundaries of each of the technical areas shall be clearly marked.
33. No person shall use or have access to a television monitor or like device in or around the
technical areas during League Matches.
Floodlights
34. A Club’s registered ground must have floodlights giving an average lux value of at least 800
with a minimum lux value of 500 at any location on the pitch.
35. Each Club shall ensure that floodlighting installation and its supporting services at its
registered ground are properly designed and maintained and shall cause the same to be
inspected at the commencement of each Close Season by a Chartered Electrical Engineer who
shall be required to certify in writing that:
35.1 the floodlights comply with Rule I.34 and that
35.2 the floodlighting installation and its supporting services have been designed to an
appropriate standard and have been properly maintained.
36. Forthwith upon receipt of the certificate required by Rule I.35 and in any event not less than
6 weeks before the commencement of the following Season, a copy shall be sent to the
Secretary.
134
RULES: SECTION I
Sanitary Facilities
37. Each Club shall provide sufficient bright, clean and hygienic toilet and washing facilities for
male and female spectators in accordance with any local authority requirements and having
regard to guidance issued by the Football Licensing Authority.The Board may caution any Club
which fails to comply with this Rule or exercise its summary jurisdiction and impose a fine.
Facilities for the Disabled
38. Each Club shall provide sufficient and adequate facilities for disabled supporters.
CCTV
39. Except for League Matches which are televised in accordance with the Company’s
broadcasting contracts, each Home Club shall procure that each League Match played at its
ground is filmed by at least 6 cameras.
40. A Home Club may arrange for any League Match in which its team participates to be relayed
by closed circuit television to other locations within its ground.
41. Except at any time when any live Transmission of any League Match pursuant to a UK
Broadcasting Contract is in progress, aVisiting Club may arrange by agreement with the Home
Club for the closed circuit television signal of a League Match in which it participates to be
relayed to its ground only. The written consent of the Board shall be required to relay the said
signal to any other location. In all such circumstances, the Visiting Club shall ensure that any
such relay of any such signal shall be encrypted in such manner as the Board may from time
to time direct.
Giant Screens
42. Except with the prior written consent of the Board, giant screens or the like at a Club’s ground
shall not be used to relay to spectators closed circuit pictures of the League Match at which
they are present.
43. Any consent given under the provisions of the above Rule shall be subject to the following
conditions:
43.1 the screen shall be located so that it does not interfere with the League Match at which
it is used or distract the Players and Match Officials;
43.2 it shall be operated by a responsible person who is fully aware of the conditions
governing its use;
43.3 the screen may be used to show:
43.3.1 live action;
43.3.2 when the ball is not in play, action replays of positive incidents;
135
RULES: SECTION I
43.4 the screen shall not be used to show:
43.4.1 action replays of negative or controversial incidents;
43.4.2 any incident which may bring into question the judgment of a Match Official;
43.4.3 the area of the trainers’ bench;
43.4.4 until substitute boards have been displayed, pictures of any substitute Player
warming up or preparing to enter the field of play;
43.4.5 any pictures which may tend to criticise, disparage, belittle or discredit the
League, any Club or any Official, Player or Match Official or to bring the game
into disrepute.

 

[cknu]

Did anyone else hear the interview with Cutts the County Councillor on Radio Nottm this morning!

She really has a chip on her shoulder and said she wasn't involved by the city in the world cup bid.

Anyhow its even less likely it will happen now.

What was interesting was that the plans for a redevelopment of the CG Main Stand/Bridgford end redevelopment. They would have to demolish 39 local houses and 2 "historical" boat clubs.

It's essentially no chance of stadium at Gamston but more importantly looks like no further development of the ground without major cost. You'd be looking at £10M just to compulsary purchase and demolish those houses/businesses. Probably the same in legal costs if some of the local residents stayed put!

Where does that leave the club? To stay as is patching up the existing stands for 10, 20 years?

 

[Ken]

Yes i heard her and it was embaressing since she is clearly on a mission to cause trouble (and to be honest who could blame them for leaving her out the loop since she is barking),

Last week it was 'city ground' or nothing, but after the city council and FA's independent architects talked her through why this is not feasible she is backtracking and changing her story daily. An interesting point was that to get up to FIFA standards the main stand would have to be a monster out of proportion with rest of ground.

She now seemed to favour the derilict land near the station (which I think would actually be brilliant and probably even better than city ground) but there must be a good reason this was not proposed over Gamston.

Also to make a further arse of hereself she did suggest the groundshare idea (as someone previously suggested I reckon our neighbours across the river may have her ear). Even more foolishly was a supporter footbridge across the trent but police would laugh this off (imagine an incident and and police cannot get anyway near!)

Worrying thing is that with her meddling I can see no move for Forest. Although many will be happy, we will be stuck with either nothing happening to CG for years or when it does potentially alot more debt burden to the club.

 

[mouldy]

I just hope this situation gets brought to an end soon.

I am sick of hearing us changing location, size and whether it is going to happen or not.

If we want the world cup that much get County to build the ground. I think we are quite happy where we are at the moment and there is really no point in us building a ground and moving to a stadium to big for us to fill for the sake of the world cup.

If the council (who do seem more motivated by the idea of world cup football) want it so desperately then they can go to Notts or can build one themselves which is a plan that was put foward.

Until we get promotion and consolidation in the prem I don't think we should be looking to moving anywhere. We should be learning lessons from the likes of Coventry not following their path.

 

[Forest_gal22]

Moving would be a huge risk! It would cost money that Forest just hasn't got! Obviously the council would get involved but they are ridiculous themselves, the new old market square took and extra year to do! AND they actually call it the new old market square. Could you imagine what they would do to the city ground? It would be several years late, cost millions more than expected in redirecting traffic and transport networks and they would name it "the new old city ground" as they have no imagination! They were ment to start the "new old" broadmarsh two years ago now and where is that?

 

[cknu]

Moving would be a huge risk! It would cost money that Forest just hasn't got! Obviously the council would get involved but they are ridiculous themselves, the new old market square took and extra year to do! AND they actually call it the new old market square. Could you imagine what they would do to the city ground? It would be several years late, cost millions more than expected in redirecting traffic and transport networks and they would name it "the new old city ground" as they have no imagination! They were ment to start the "new old" broadmarsh two years ago now and where is that?

But it would cost Forest more money long-term not to move. Thats been the point all along. Even before all this World Cup nonsence. The plan has been to obtain a secure financial future for the club. The first effort was via the builders paying for a new ground at Clifton in return for building rights on the current, this time it's securing funding via a world cup campaign.

For the club to have a sound, secure long-term future we don't want to be in a situation where we are in 10yrs time sticking plasters over gaping wounds.

Again looking at the future you have to assume we make it back to the Prem in the next 10yrs in which case we'd easily sell out the current ~29K (after segregation) capacity when the likes of MAN U, Chelsea, Arsenal,Liverpool etc.. are playing us at home!


Get a state of the art stadium and facilities now, get extra source of revenue from concerts or even Womens Footy. And use the extra income to ensure we can develop new talent, buy new players and not do a Southampton!



First and foremost its a business,if not they'd be letting us in for free and the players will be volunteers.
The Eastcroft site would be ideal especially if we get the other two tram routes into the station but lets keep our cash for players and not maintaining an old ground or trying to squeeze in a new main stand paying £10M just to buy up houses to get space!

 

[Forest_gal22]

I agree with eyes on the premiership it is a good idea. I just don't want them to bodge it and scarper!

 

[earthworm]

First and foremost its a business,if not they'd be letting us in for free and the players will be volunteers.

First and foremost its a business? They'd be letting us in for free? Black and white. There is a grey too you know. That's redeveloping the City Ground. Tastefully.

 

[cknu]

First and foremost its a business? They'd be letting us in for free? Black and white. There is a grey too you know. That's redeveloping the City Ground. Tastefully.

So you'd rather have your ticket money spent on patching up and repairing the stands each year or buying the local houses to demolish them than players on the pitch that can win games!

Fair enough, I'd rather be watching a good team in 20yrs time with children/grandkids etc.. in a modern stadium.

Its like when you go to the Neu Camp in Barcelona, and go up the escalators and walk over that bridge from the club shop into the upper levels and the grandeur of it.