Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Well to be fair, half our signings play like they've had their legs shot off half the time, so maybe we've already paid back some of the price!
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The Relegation Dogfight 23/24
- Thread starter UnfinishedBusiness99
- Start date
Mr. Blonde
Jack Burkitt
I think what's become clear is that for whatever reason the relationship between Coops and the big man had broken down, and broken down to such an extent that Cooper was disposed as much for non-footballing reasons as what was going on on the pitchThe whole post is excellent, but this struck a nerve.
I'm a big believer in Karma, and I can't help feel that the way we've treated such a dedicated and "all-in" bloke such as Cooper, and thought of him as nothing more than an "expendable asset" Predator styleee, will come back to bite us in the arse to teach people that we are little more than an "expendable asset" to the Prem ourselves.
It feels like we have to right some wrongs to earn the right to stay up, else we're gonna end up with a big invisible alien blowing our arms off.
So I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that Coops leaving was the best thing for all concerned. I wish things hadn't turned out like that but once the trust and loyalty between owner and manager has gone there's no way you can move forward
I'm not defending EM here by the way, in my opinion he let his ego, his infamous ambition and ultimately his jealousy of the fans' adoration of Steve to cloud his judgment. He could and should have found a way to put his opinions and emotions aside and just let his manager get on with the job but it was clearly beyond him
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Agree 100%.
Marinakis waiting down the tunnel for the players at half time Sat suggests he hasn't learned his lesson either.
Lord Wazzock
First Team Squad
A mate of mine lives in Darwen, he hates it. All his workmates are Blackburn fans. He was telling me when Burnley play at Ewood Park, all the pubs shut for the day.
Mr. Blonde
Jack Burkitt
I don't mind a bit of passion from the owner and I'm not going to lie I liked seeing him greet the players of the pitch
The problem arises when that kind of passion tips over into an over-involvement in matters that he shouldn't directly be engaged in
From the outside looking in it appeared to me like it came from both sides. Cooper definitely had 'an edge' to him, a ruthless side that certainly didn't suffer fools lightly.
Mr. Blonde
Jack Burkitt
Oh I don't think Cooper was blameless in all of it - as I say I think the relationship between the two broke down, I highly doubt it was one person being all right and the other all wrong, it's never like that in life
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Which is probably why Cooper was never gonna work here long term, because most of our top brass are fools when it comes to footballing judgments lol.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
I think Cooper wanted out by the time he got axed as well.
It was the right thing to do to move on at that point, but it should never have got to that point in the first place. If you can't have an amenable working relationship with someone who's catapulted your club forwards and is a genuinely nice person then you're probably doomed to repeat your mistakes over and over.
Marinakis and Junior do need to take a step back and consider running the club like a public traded company rather than their private little toy like Capital Maritime. They should be nowhere near transfers, player selection or managerial choices and the sly undermining tactics they choose when they want to enact change but are wary of a negative response is pathetic. If you want it to be your plaything then have conviction in your choices and take the rough with the smooth. If you are wary of fan backlash then perhaps consider the fans might be right? Or hire a person who knows their stuff like a DOF to take the flak away from you, you know, like good clubs tend to do, and what we did when we went from L1 bound to PL in 10 months.
It was the right thing to do to move on at that point, but it should never have got to that point in the first place. If you can't have an amenable working relationship with someone who's catapulted your club forwards and is a genuinely nice person then you're probably doomed to repeat your mistakes over and over.
Marinakis and Junior do need to take a step back and consider running the club like a public traded company rather than their private little toy like Capital Maritime. They should be nowhere near transfers, player selection or managerial choices and the sly undermining tactics they choose when they want to enact change but are wary of a negative response is pathetic. If you want it to be your plaything then have conviction in your choices and take the rough with the smooth. If you are wary of fan backlash then perhaps consider the fans might be right? Or hire a person who knows their stuff like a DOF to take the flak away from you, you know, like good clubs tend to do, and what we did when we went from L1 bound to PL in 10 months.
Dirk Furtull
John Robertson
I'm intrigued that somehow Nuno has been demonstrably better than Cooper. Not where I'm sitting he isn't, not at all. Would Nuno have achieved what Coops did? Absolutely not.
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MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
There'll be some who think that but it feels like the consensus opinion isn't that he's better, just that keeping Cooper on wasn't an option because of how toxic Marinakis had made it. Nuno is just the successor but it could have been anyone frankly.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
Unfortunately Cooper went because we were the worst team in the league for his last 10 matched in charge - simple as that!
Last season we took 10 points out of 12 at home to the bottom 4 - that is what kept us up
This season against the bottom 4 (including Everton with the promoted 3) we took 5 points out of 12 - this was all on Coopers watch. That is why we are in the position we are. You have to beat the teams around you.
Is NES any better? - the football is better, but the results are marginal - for me yes - but I get that others are unhappy.
Trents
John Robertson
Safe to say Palace and Brentford are safe now. Brentford have Luton and Everton next so could do with them getting a few more results.
Sheff Utd are down. They still travel to Man Utd and Newcastle. Also play Spurs. It may be us that gets to confirm their fate when we visit.
Burnley really needed to beat Brighton, good old Muric. They all have those 3 sides above to play.
They play each other next Sat, doesn't get more relegation 6 pointer than that.
Sheff Utd are down. They still travel to Man Utd and Newcastle. Also play Spurs. It may be us that gets to confirm their fate when we visit.
Burnley really needed to beat Brighton, good old Muric. They all have those 3 sides above to play.
They play each other next Sat, doesn't get more relegation 6 pointer than that.
Trents
John Robertson
Anyone who was at the Spurs and Everton home matches could see something had to change. We were much worse than the current offering.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Nothing is ever as simple as when people say "simple as that."
May I make an alternative suggestion: Our form fell off a cliff because Cooper was going to be sacked. The "Cooper to be sacked" stories started 8 games prior to his eventual sacking, at a point when we had played 9 games and only lost 3 of them. The last 5 games of his tenure (which started with the Everton loss) absolutely everyone knew he was going, including the players. He only didn't get sacked at that point because Marinakis hadn't lined up his successor.
And that also was because Cooper was being undermined by the ownership as well.
It was clear he was on thin ice, and why on earth they fell out will possibly never be known, but it remains incredibly disappointing and frankly a disgraceful way to end his tenure as coach, given what he’d achieved.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
There are at least 2 sides to every story.
In this case it really is that simple - The way we started the season is why SC isn't here.
Those early matches against Sheff Utd, Burnley (twice) Luton and Brentford - should have set us up for the season.
In reality we were awful in all of them - we could easily have lost all 5. We won at Chelsea and nearly got a point at Man Utd - their performances this season show that this was nothing special.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
3rd November that first story hit. Forest had played 9 games (yes, just 9) with another brand new squad. The record under Cooper at that point: W2, D4, L3. Forest record after that story under Cooper: W1 D1 L5
Marinakis' deserves as much flak for Cooper's "form" - should have just sacked him if he wasn't happy rather than fanny about for almost two months sewing division and giving the players an excuse not to try.
chaospunx
Geoff Thomas
This 100% if left without the meddling I believe this season could of been very different but im half glad it ended he didn't deserve that dragging on like it was love the guy nuno don't dislike him but don't feel a connection at all
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Again, not that simple.
We were on track to improve on our points total from last year before the ambitionlord started to leak shit about performances not being good enough to the press.
Chelsea was a strong performance, Man Utd we got screwed over by PGMOL, Sheff Utd we deserved to win without getting out of 3rd gear, Burnley was a crap performance granted and Luton we should have put about six or 7 past them.
There was no need to panic or expect more. We expected more and panicked, and now we might go down because of our arrogance. Well done us, super smashing great.
Cloughie1975
John Robertson
If we lose all 3 on the road I think we’re done for,Ray.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Chappers85
Can't Play Left-Back
I think that is a totally rational anxiety. Burnley are the sort of side that once they're relegated will probably find some form and win a few. And Sheffield Utd will either be relegated by the time we play them, or on the very edge of the precipice - either way they'll wanna take us down with them. We've done it to teams when already relegated (Bopp's screamer against Gillingham, and we basically relegated Blackburn on the penultimate game of the season in 99). And this Forest side isn't great at handling pressure. So it terrifies me too.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
We will never know.
We can talk all day about performances - the results are there in black and white.
My point remains - to stay up you need to take points from the teams around you, last season we did, this season with the easiest possible home start to the season - we blew it.