The Portuguese (a great bunch of lads)

[DapperDan]

The majority of the preseason optimism and predictions of promotion challenges were based on the Portuguese signings making a significant difference to us.

It's starting to look more and more like Karanka doesn't fancy them, if they are not going to be playing a large part this year, and he is preferring the previous seasons combination of Cash and Lolley plus Soudani (who looks a downgrade on Tomlin so far to me), does this mean we can not really expect much more than what we saw last year?

Genuine question, not looking to stir discontent before the over sensitive pipe up.

 

[Heffing Psycho!]

Re: The Portuguese

I'm not sure where the deduction comes from that he doesn't fancy them tbh. Goncalves perhaps but Dias and Carvalho have played plenty and been impressive for the most part.









and it's still only 5 games in.

 

[Liaminho]

Re: The Portuguese

Carvalho has clear talent and we looked better after he came on. Dias and Goncalves I'm not sold on despite Dias' showboating at times.b

Anyone got a video of Carvalho knocking it around 3 players? That was filthy.

 

[MASE]

Re: The Portuguese

Is there enough evidence to suggest AK don't fancy them?

Think we've tried to shoe horn a proactive Soudani in yesterday to minimal effect. The manager reserves the right to change it up to account for the opposition, although Id expect to see Carvalho almost unconditionally given how its playing out without him.

Dias, thought he was shit yesterday, shinned almost everything, he's stopped running at folk for the most part & his confidence looks shaken. Either way, nowt to suggest AK has lost faith.

Goncalves, he's worth another look, given a chance to shine against Bury. His pace could be an asset.

Their contributions are subjective, but don't detect AK is about to bail on them.

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

Re: The Portuguese

I think he's still trying to find the best combination of them.

My issue is some players, particularly more skilful risk takers need a bit of momentum. Some might need a few games, but at the minute if they don't play well they're rotated.

I still want to see more of Goncalves, I like his speed and desire to run in behind the opposition defence. At times yesterday, particularly when Carvalho was on, he was desperate for a runner in behind to pass too. At one point he was winning the ball, driving with it and even making the run behind all by himself.

I guess the other 'issue' is. Cash and Soudani came off the bench and impacted games, as has Lolley. So it's also difficult to then not give them the right to start.

I reckon next time around (not sure on Newcastle) we'll see Carvalho back at no.10. IMO he's got to be there every game. Get the ball into his feet and move off him. We instantly started having meaningful possession in the Brum half when he came on.

Also, everyone saw Wolves last year and instantly though that was us. Worth noting, their investment actually started the year before where they were bottom half, then they added more, including a talent which should never have been in this league in Neves.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

Re: The Portuguese

I think he's selecting players based on the opposition more than not 'fancying them'.
There seems to be a lot of experimenting going on as well, which I expected given the amount of signings.

Boro fans told us not to expect things to click straight away. There'll be months of him with his hands in his pockets on the touchline whilst things clearly aren't working on the pitch. Strange selections and substitutions.

I'm not concerned at all, but I am a bit frustrated with some of these performances. Wouldn't be normal if we wasn't.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Re: The Portuguese

Still a lot of experimentation going on. Carvalho's going to play the majority of games (if nothing else, because no one else can play there). Dias looks like he's got a trick or two about him but suffered from zero support around him yesterday. Not sold on Goncalves yet.

There will be times when sheer work rate like Cash and Lolley provide is a better option than quality on the ball.

Too early to judge yet anyway.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Re: The Portuguese

None of the 3 Portuguese (4 if you include Figuerido) are settling into the Championship.
Dias and Carvalho looked great in pre-season against Bournemouth, but that was a friendly.
Championship matches are completely different - no time, no space, and highly physical.
Carvalho looks like he will settle and be influential, and Dias has got great pace and may do well against the weaker sides.
Goncalves looks like a make-weight in the deal, and doesn't look to have what it takes at all.
We also brought in Grabban, Dawson, Soudani, Hefele, Robinson and Byram.
Of those Dawson looks what he is, an aging player on the down-swing of his career path.
Grabban has not yet had any impact whatsoever - missing a penalty at a crucial stage of the Wigan game just about sums him up for me.
He is simply not worth £6m, and if we had real promotion ambitions we would have gone for Podence rather than Grabban.
Hefele - we haven't seen enough to form a judgement, and he was very popular at Huddersfield so there is hope.
Soudani looks to have potential - but needs to be played in the right position, with the right players around him (i.e. Guedioura rather than Watson).
Byram needs match time to get fully up to speed, but Robinson looks a poor choice and I don't expect him to get many starts.
So, it isn't about the Portuguese, it's about the general level of acquisitions.
In Janaury Karanka brought in what he could get to fill survival needs.
My problem with him is that this summer he has brought in a number of sub-standard players.
The release of Worral and Brereton when the new lads coming in are struggling to have an impact is adding to my concern.
The strong rumours that we are about to bring in Gestede further concern me.
He is another that has a very checkered career to date - his spell at Blackburn was the highlight, and even there he wasn't the main man at the time, but benefitted from playing alongside Rhodes, who was at his very best then.
I let my hopes of a top 6 finish get the better of me in pre-season.
Maybe I am over-compensating now, but the sheer averageness of the incoming talent is leading me to think mid to lower position is more likely than even a top-half finish.
It is still really far to early to write off this season, and Karanka has a good track record in this league (he was found out in the Premiership of course!).
So, hopefully I am just in a gloomy mood and over the next 5 games we will come good and cbe up in the top half of the table with Carvalho and Dias leading the way.

 

[Heffing Psycho!]

Re: The Portuguese

None of the 3 Portuguese (4 if you include Figuerido) are settling into the Championship.
Dias and Carvalho looked great in pre-season against Bournemouth, but that was a friendly.
Championship matches are completely different - no time, no space, and highly physical.
Carvalho looks like he will settle and be influential, and Dias has got great pace and may do well against the weaker sides.
Goncalves looks like a make-weight in the deal, and doesn't look to have what it takes at all.
We also brought in Grabban, Dawson, Soudani, Hefele, Robinson and Byram.
Of those Dawson looks what he is, an aging player on the down-swing of his career path.
Grabban has not yet had any impact whatsoever - missing a penalty at a crucial stage of the Wigan game just about sums him up for me.
He is simply not worth £6m, and if we had real promotion ambitions we would have gone for Podence rather than Grabban.
Hefele - we haven't seen enough to form a judgement, and he was very popular at Huddersfield so there is hope.
Soudani looks to have potential - but needs to be played in the right position, with the right players around him (i.e. Guedioura rather than Watson).
Byram needs match time to get fully up to speed, but Robinson looks a poor choice and I don't expect him to get many starts.
So, it isn't about the Portuguese, it's about the general level of acquisitions.
In Janaury Karanka brought in what he could get to fill survival needs.
My problem with him is that this summer he has brought in a number of sub-standard players.
The release of Worral and Brereton when the new lads coming in are struggling to have an impact is adding to my concern.
The strong rumours that we are about to bring in Gestede further concern me.
He is another that has a very checkered career to date - his spell at Blackburn was the highlight, and even there he wasn't the main man at the time, but benefitted from playing alongside Rhodes, who was at his very best then.
I let my hopes of a top 6 finish get the better of me in pre-season.
Maybe I am over-compensating now, but the sheer averageness of the incoming talent is leading me to think mid to lower position is more likely than even a top-half finish.
It is still really far to early to write off this season, and Karanka has a good track record in this league (he was found out in the Premiership of course!).
So, hopefully I am just in a gloomy mood and over the next 5 games we will come good and cbe up in the top half of the table with Carvalho and Dias leading the way.

Take that point apply it to all the players you've noted.

 

[LostThatLovingFeeling]

Re: The Portuguese

To me the signings look random.

Like Mendes just told us who to sign and we did it.

Dias looks terrible to me. Keeps f***ing missing the ball.

Goncalves has done nothing.

And Carvalho looks okay but certainly players more suited to the Championship would probably be available for £13.5m.

As for the non Portuguese we spent £6m on Grabban yet don’t play a style suited to this acquisition and thus his confidence looks shot.

Dawson is verging on retirement and rightly so.

Robinson looks terrible!

Byram looks okay-ish.

Soudani has been good though but he can’t donit all alone.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Re: The Portuguese

Take that point apply it to all the players you've noted.

As I said, I am probably over compensating for my pre-season euphoria.
And it is bloody cold and wet here in the Vale today.
We have no central heating or open fires, in a house built in 1890, so no cavity wall insulation either.
After yesterday's debacle it all makes for a depressing sort of a day.
Think I'll go and slask my wrists in the bath... oh no, the immersion heater has packed up, so no hot water either!

 

[Otis Redding]

Re: The Portuguese

I think he's still trying to find the best combination of them.

My issue is some players, particularly more skilful risk takers need a bit of momentum. Some might need a few games, but at the minute if they don't play well they're rotated.

I still want to see more of Goncalves, I like his speed and desire to run in behind the opposition defence. At times yesterday, particularly when Carvalho was on, he was desperate for a runner in behind to pass too. At one point he was winning the ball, driving with it and even making the run behind all by himself.

I guess the other 'issue' is. Cash and Soudani came off the bench and impacted games, as has Lolley. So it's also difficult to then not give them the right to start.

I reckon next time around (not sure on Newcastle) we'll see Carvalho back at no.10. IMO he's got to be there every game. Get the ball into his feet and move off him. We instantly started having meaningful possession in the Brum half when he came on.

Also, everyone saw Wolves last year and instantly though that was us. Worth noting, their investment actually started the year before where they were bottom half, then they added more, including a talent which should never have been in this league in Neves.

That's a very good appraisal SSM, and sums up my thoughts perfectly, but with more eloquence.

 

[alabamared]

Re: The Portuguese

Just checked my calender and it is still August.
Reading this thread and looking at the weather I thought it was January and I had slept through Christmas.

 

[DapperDan]

Re: The Portuguese

Would we not say that the two best performances so far were Bristol City and WBA?

All three started the Bristol game, two started and a third came on in the WBA game. That's why I don't get why they are appearing to be doubted now, especially when this league will take some getting used too for them all. They will only get used to it with consistent game time though and it doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[Strummer]

Re: The Portuguese

We only really started ticking yesterday when Joao Carvalho came on.

He’s exactly the player we should be building a side around.

 

[Otis Redding]

Re: The Portuguese

Just checked my calender and it is still August.
Reading this thread and looking at the weather I thought it was January and I had slept through Christmas.

The problem is though 'Bama, many of our fans these days would scoff at Cloughie's oft-stated opinion that British signings often need 6 months to fully settle in at a new club, let alone young players from a different footballing culture.

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

Re: The Portuguese

I don't think people are doubting them. They're just looking for answers as to why the last few performances have been so different.

At this moment in time, I want to see Soudani and Cash as impact players off the bench. I did back them starting vs Brum. But I think we absolutely have to start with players who pass and move the ball in tight spaces behind the striker. Cash and Soudani coming on can open games up, but I'd go for a 3 out of Lolley/Goncalves - Carvalho - Dias right now.

Get the ball into their feet and move off it. We've got to have meaningful possession in the opposition half. Cash/Soudani (as much I do like both of them and what they bring, especially Cash, he's our best academy product since Burke) are a bit of a one and done attack. They run at 100 mph. right now, I want to see us build attacks more. From the evidence i've seen Carvalho and Dias best support that. Lolley can link brilliantly too so I like him in there, and then I want to see Goncalves get in behind a full-back, cut inside and get his shot away.

 

[Heffing Psycho!]

Re: The Portuguese

We only really started ticking yesterday when Joao Carvalho came on.

He’s exactly the player we should be building a side around.

That game was made for him yesterday, so much space in midfield.

No doubt there'll be games where he struggles to find space and really effect games, as is the case with most number 10s, but despite the fact it's very early on in the season I don't think he'll really go missing in games, he works hard and he's not afraid to get stuck in, you see him come deep to take the ball off people and make himself available for one twos with the wingers often. I think once we click he'll look even better.

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

Re: The Portuguese

That game was made for him yesterday, so much space in midfield.

No doubt there'll be games where he struggles to find space and really effect games, as is the case with most number 10s, but despite the fact it's very early on in the season I don't think he'll really go missing in games, he works hard and he's not afraid to get stuck in, you see him come deep to take the ball off people and make himself available for one twos with the wingers often. I think once we click he'll look even better.

Bang on. When he can't find the space, that's when you get players out wide who push on in behind the full backs with pace and drop the ball in. Either he'll find some space then, or you bring a Soudani on and get him closer to the striker. But he has to be starting no.10.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Re: The Portuguese

Jury's out.

 

[Wes' Organ]

Re: The Portuguese

Jury's out.

Have we signed another f***er?

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Re: The Portuguese

Have we signed another f***er?

Ian.

 

[Danga]

Re: The Portuguese

I'll judge them when they have the opportunity to attack the opponents when they are 20 yards inside the other teams half, rather than 20 yards in our own. It was criminal yesterday that Dias was having to take on 2 or 3 men just to get to the halfway line.

 

[Matt]

Re: The Portuguese

None of the 3 Portuguese (4 if you include Figuerido) are settling into the Championship.
Dias and Carvalho looked great in pre-season against Bournemouth, but that was a friendly.
Championship matches are completely different - no time, no space, and highly physical.
Carvalho looks like he will settle and be influential, and Dias has got great pace and may do well against the weaker sides.
Goncalves looks like a make-weight in the deal, and doesn't look to have what it takes at all.
We also brought in Grabban, Dawson, Soudani, Hefele, Robinson and Byram.
Of those Dawson looks what he is, an aging player on the down-swing of his career path.
Grabban has not yet had any impact whatsoever - missing a penalty at a crucial stage of the Wigan game just about sums him up for me.
He is simply not worth £6m, and if we had real promotion ambitions we would have gone for Podence rather than Grabban.
Hefele - we haven't seen enough to form a judgement, and he was very popular at Huddersfield so there is hope.
Soudani looks to have potential - but needs to be played in the right position, with the right players around him (i.e. Guedioura rather than Watson).
Byram needs match time to get fully up to speed, but Robinson looks a poor choice and I don't expect him to get many starts.
So, it isn't about the Portuguese, it's about the general level of acquisitions.
In Janaury Karanka brought in what he could get to fill survival needs.
My problem with him is that this summer he has brought in a number of sub-standard players.
The release of Worral and Brereton when the new lads coming in are struggling to have an impact is adding to my concern.
The strong rumours that we are about to bring in Gestede further concern me.
He is another that has a very checkered career to date - his spell at Blackburn was the highlight, and even there he wasn't the main man at the time, but benefitted from playing alongside Rhodes, who was at his very best then.
I let my hopes of a top 6 finish get the better of me in pre-season.
Maybe I am over-compensating now, but the sheer averageness of the incoming talent is leading me to think mid to lower position is more likely than even a top-half finish.
It is still really far to early to write off this season, and Karanka has a good track record in this league (he was found out in the Premiership of course!).
So, hopefully I am just in a gloomy mood and over the next 5 games we will come good and cbe up in the top half of the table with Carvalho and Dias leading the way.

Why don’t you tell us how you really feel cap?

 

[valspoodle]

Re: The Portuguese

Good players when AK bothers to play them.

If I thought AK had a style of play in mind and if I thought he knew what players to select to fit that style, then I would say they were not a success, but so far the manager/ coach (or whatever) shows no sign of knowing quite what he wants.