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The ‘I have something to say about Forest that doesn’t warrant its own thread’ Thread

RedRobbo

RedRobbo

Grenville Morris
Mr Marinakis planning on broadening the scope of Nottingham Forest?
The chairman revealed today that the club has applied for a Netball franchise ( British super league? ).
He may have designs on widening the appeal of the club in the same way that a number of European clubs are run ( inc Olympiakos ).
 
Redemption

Redemption

Agenda Benda
RedRobbo said:
Mr Marinakis planning on broadening the scope of Nottingham Forest?
The chairman revealed today that the club has applied for a Netball franchise ( British super league? ).
He may have designs on widening the appeal of the club in the same way that a number of European clubs are run ( inc Olympiakos ).
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I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

About the spread of sport in Nottingham. Obviously there's 2 footy teams, 3 if you stretch to Mansfield. The Cricket. Rugby. Ice Hockey.

That could be the basis of a multi-sport club, if you wanted to go down that line. It would be easy to do that in Nottingham and add stuffblike Netball, rowing 👀, etc.

Places like Liverpool are a two team town, they don't really have any other sporting draws. The Cricket Club is like a baby off shoot of Lancashire, so it gets 4 minor county matches. It doesn't have anything else.
 
I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
RedRobbo said:
Mr Marinakis planning on broadening the scope of Nottingham Forest?
The chairman revealed today that the club has applied for a Netball franchise ( British super league? ).
He may have designs on widening the appeal of the club in the same way that a number of European clubs are run ( inc Olympiakos ).
Click to expand...
We used to hold sports meetings annually and numbered athletes amongst the club members. There was a Nottingham Forest Cricket team too, but I think that was more that it was situated on the Forest Rec ground like the football club. A number of the football players did play for the cricket team though. There was a baseball team linked to the football club. They were English champions too in what I think was the last year of the competition. The footballers made up the baseball teams.
 
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I'm Red Till Dead said:
We used to hold sports meetings annually and numbered athletes amongst the club members. There was a Nottingham Forest Cricket team too, but I think that was more that it was situated on the Forest Rec ground like the football club. A number of the football players did play for the cricket team though. There was a baseball team linked to the football club. They were English champions too in what I think was the last year of the competition. The footballers made up the baseball teams.
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And of course, the Bandy and Shinty happened concurrently at first iirc.
 
I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
Redemption said:
We're we not originally called Nottingham Forest Football and Bandy Club?
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No, we were originally the Nottingham Forest Football Club from the look of this 1866 advert. We were often known as the Forest Football Club though.

The Nottingham Forest Football and Bandy Club sounds like an option the Beatles might have rejected in favour of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

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I'm Red Till Dead said:
No, we were originally the Nottingham Forest Football Club from the look of this 1866 advert. We were often known as the Forest Football Club though.

The Nottingham Forest Football and Bandy Club sounds like an option the Beatles might have rejected in favour of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

View attachment 36785
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Interesting.

I've definitely seen it written. A quick search shows this football history site stating it but without a source.

Nottingham Forest club history

www.footballhistory.org www.footballhistory.org

There are other references too. But are there any sources?

Could it be an urban myth, or whatever the footballing equivalent is?
 
I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
Redemption said:
Interesting.

I've definitely seen it written. A quick search shows this football history site stating it but without a source.

Nottingham Forest club history

www.footballhistory.org www.footballhistory.org

There are other references too. But are there any sources?

Could it be an urban myth, or whatever the footballing equivalent is?
Click to expand...
I have seen no reports of that name in the newspapers of the time. I just did a search on "bandy club" in the 2nd half of the 1800s and nothing appears in the Nottingham papers and the 3 references in the East Midlands refer to ice hockey at Bury Fens.

I think that whoever came up with that name originally saw that Forest had started as a group of people who played shinty, confused shinty ( a form of hockey) with bandy (a form of ice hockey) decided as the people involved played shinty and hockey for a period so must have been named as having both in their name and it's mistakenly been picked up as the official first name of the club by others who have seen it. As you can see from the advertisement in the paper in January 1866 they were using the Nottingham Forest Football Club at that early stage.

Pretty much the only contempory references in Nottinghamshire to Shinty or hockey referred to prosecutions for playing in the streets and advertisements for hockey sticks in sports shop ads.
 
Bonfy177

Bonfy177

LTLF MORON
And so it starts MGW

IMG_3069.jpeg
 
Redemption

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I'm Red Till Dead said:
think that whoever came up with that name originally saw that Forest had started as a group of people who played shinty
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It's quite often that Forest are associated with Bandy. It's in Duncan Hamilton's history of the club.

I just ran a search on Google Books and there are lots of books that repeat the linkage and some that repeat the name. Interestingly, there's some similar claim that Sheffield United had bandy in It's name too.

But as you say, it doesn't appear in any contemporary newspapers. But it has become a factoid in the Forest story.
 
I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
Redemption said:
It's quite often that Forest are associated with Bandy. It's in Duncan Hamilton's history of the club.

I just ran a search on Google Books and there are lots of books that repeat the linkage and some that repeat the name. Interestingly, there's some similar claim that Sheffield United had bandy in It's name too.

But as you say, it doesn't appear in any contemporary newspapers. But it has become a factoid in the Forest story.
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I've just emailed Don Wright to see if he has come across the name and if there is anything to support it.
 
Redemption

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Agenda Benda
I'm Red Till Dead said:
I've just emailed Don Wright to see if he has come across the name and if there is anything to support it.
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A search on Google Books for Nottingham Forest Bandy does bring up Don's 150 Year Anniversary book.

In another of the books I was looking at online, it said that Nottingham Forest Football and Bandy Club was established in 1867, two years after the club was formed, which i thought was interesting.

1000008251.jpg


The oldest book I found was published in 1954.

1000008246.jpg


But another book said Bandy was played during the winter months when the pitches were frozen.

1000008248.jpg
 

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I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
Redemption said:
A search on Google Books for Nottingham Forest Bandy does bring up Don's 150 Year Anniversary book.

In another of the books I was looking at online, it said that Nottingham Forest Football and Bandy Club was established in 1867, two years after the club was formed, which i thought was interesting.

View attachment 36831

The oldest book I found was published in 1954.

View attachment 36828

But another book said Bandy was played during the winter months when the pitches were frozen.

View attachment 36829
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I have done a search on Don's 150th anniversary book, and skimmed the early section of my copy and I didn't find a reference to bandy for either. Shinny and Shinty, yes, bandy no.

Many of the players would have been cricketers who wanted to keep fit in the winter. By the early to mid 1860s the tide was swinging away from hockey towards football.

At that stage there were no hard and fast rules as there are now and the earliest games bore a strong resemblance to rugby.

Other teams and areas had there own rules, which, as they challenged other fledgling teams, made things very interesting as they would either play the home teams rules, or even more fun, might play one half with the home teams rules and the second half with the away teams, or vice versa.

Given that Forest had been a hockey team prior to adopting football I could see them playing a hockey style game for fun and fitness if they couldn't play football. I seem to recall that on one occasion I saw the boys at our school playing hockey in the games afternoon because there was an inch of snow on the ground and the football pitch I assume was deemed too bad to play on. I think that the hockey pitch was considered too bad for us girls to play on and where forced to do laps on the track before going inside to play netball or volleyball.
 
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Agenda Benda
I'm Red Till Dead said:
I have done a search on Don's 150th anniversary book, and skimmed the early section of my copy and I didn't find a reference to bandy for either. Shinny and Shinty, yes, bandy no.

Many of the players would have been cricketers who wanted to keep fit in the winter. By the early to mid 1860s the tide was swinging away from hockey towards football.

At that stage there were no hard and fast rules as there are now and the earliest games bore a strong resemblance to rugby.

Other teams and areas had there own rules, which, as they challenged other fledgling teams, made things very interesting as they would either play the home teams rules, or even more fun, might play one half with the home teams rules and the second half with the away teams, or vice versa.

Given that Forest had been a hockey team prior to adopting football I could see them playing a hockey style game for fun and fitness if they couldn't play football. I seem to recall that on one occasion I saw the boys at our school playing hockey in the games afternoon because there was an inch of snow on the ground and the football pitch I assume was deemed too bad to play on. I think that the hockey pitch was considered too bad for us girls to play on and where forced to do laps on the track before going inside to play netball or volleyball.
Click to expand...
Clearly there are some early references, like the Morris Marples one from 1954 and maybe one in 70s, a couple in the 80s, but the largest proportion were post 2010. So I'm beginning to wonder if the proliferation is an Internet-era thing?
 
I'm Red Till Dead

I'm Red Till Dead

Stuart Pearce
Redemption said:
Clearly there are some early references, like the Morris Marples one from 1954 and maybe one in 70s, a couple in the 80s, but the largest proportion were post 2010. So I'm beginning to wonder if the proliferation is an Internet-era thing?
Click to expand...
I suspect that may be true. In my scrapbooks I tend not to put anything in unless I find it myself. Even then the newspapers get things wrong but I will point out anything I know is wrong and query what I'm unsure of.

What really makes me suspicious though is using bandy rather than shinty. From the search I did, I got the impression it was southern name with the majority of hits being in London papers and only 3 in the East Midlands, 2 of those referring to Bury Fens in Cambridgeshire.

Hopefully Don will get back to me at some point with his take on it.
 
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