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Thank You Nigel Doughty

W

winnits

Guest
:yes:

Nail on head. That it's been self inflicted AND pre-emptively predicted by a lot of fans.

That last bit at least should be worth thanking him for... many seem to take great pleasure in being able to validate their speculation with hindsight :)
 

Doughty's Love Child

Geoff Thomas
That last bit at least should be worth thanking him for... many seem to take great pleasure in being able to validate their speculation with hindsight :)

:)

Not pleasure, deffinately not, just an example of what happens when the fans are constantly ignored - we have to repeat things a million times to get through to the board and other fans and contsnatly state examples of previous predictions so that people start to take note of things to come.
 
W

winnits

Guest
Where have these things been repeated a million times?

If people had, for example, joined the supporters club and raised these issues (whatever they are) directly with the board members then I'd be a little less flippant, but aside from an abortive attempt to form a supporters trust I've not seen much attempt to directly engage the powers-that-be, just a lot of vitriol posted on the internet.
 

Doughty's Love Child

Geoff Thomas
Where have these things been repeated a million times?

If people had, for example, joined the supporters club and raised these issues (whatever they are) directly with the board members then I'd be a little less flippant, but aside from an abortive attempt to form a supporters trust I've not seen much attempt to directly engage the powers-that-be, just a lot of vitriol posted on the internet.

Try reading the club website and their 'fan talk' section for one. If the club don't take note of this and the possibly billion times the issue of a left back was raised then they ignore the fans more than I thought - and baring in mind the 'left back a priority' BS we were fed it is obvious that they have heard us, they just haven't listened fully as they were all too ready to embrace the u-turn on that move. Again, Marthur and Doughty knowing too little about football to make a sound judgement.

If they want to give us a more direct means of voicing our opinions then I'm all for that.
 
W

winnits

Guest
That direct means exists, it's just that people don't use it because it involves more than just sitting behind a keyboard.

Personally I'm all for quite heated debate (funnily enough, being the person what made this forum) - people should voice their views, but by the appropriate means. Personally I don't think that the fan talk section of a poxy template-driven website nor third-party internet forums is an appropriate means.

Face to face debate at Supporters Club annual meetings is surely the way forward?
 

Rich

Rice IV
Or perhaps send Nigel or Mark an email with your questions.

If you can string a couple of sentences together and not come across in the same way quite a few people manage to on here, then they will respond.

Alternatively, try having a chat with the people you seem to despise next time you see them. They're both very approachable and willing to chat, though I'm sure spotting Doughty nowadays is a bit more of a hardship.
 
So it's
"f*** off Doughty and leave our club", he leaves, things go to shit and then it's "Doughty you bastard get back in and sort it out!"?
 

Col

Has he singed yet?
So it's
"f*** off Doughty and leave our club", he leaves, things go to shit and then it's "Doughty you bastard get back in and sort it out!"?

Of course! It's not an unreasonable thing to ask, is it? :LOL:
 
The mind boggle's. There are so many better managers, CEO's, and chairman on the internet, how do things go wrong?
 

Doughty's Love Child

Geoff Thomas
That direct means exists, it's just that people don't use it because it involves more than just sitting behind a keyboard.

Personally I'm all for quite heated debate (funnily enough, being the person what made this forum) - people should voice their views, but by the appropriate means. Personally I don't think that the fan talk section of a poxy template-driven website nor third-party internet forums is an appropriate means.

Face to face debate at Supporters Club annual meetings is surely the way forward?

This contradicts what I read on here the other day by another moderator (Flagman I think) who told another user that Doughty regularly reads these boards, so make your mind up.
 

Doughty's Love Child

Geoff Thomas
Or perhaps send Nigel or Mark an email with your questions.

If you can string a couple of sentences together and not come across in the same way quite a few people manage to on here, then they will respond.

Alternatively, try having a chat with the people you seem to despise next time you see them. They're both very approachable and willing to chat, though I'm sure spotting Doughty nowadays is a bit more of a hardship.

Could you PM me their e-mails pls and I'll drop them a message? cheers.
 
W

winnits

Guest
Doughty's Love Child said:
This contradicts what I read on here the other day by another moderator (Flagman I think) who told another user that Doughty regularly reads these boards, so make your mind up.

I regularly read them too, I mark a lot of things read too, though. Just because he reads a board doesn't make it a sensible way of assuming a specific grievance has been observed :)
 

Doughty's Love Child

Geoff Thomas
I regularly read them too, I mark a lot of things read too, though. Just because he reads a board doesn't make it a sensible way of assuming a specific grievance has been observed :)

Nope, you're right, which is exactly why I'll e-mail him on my lunch later :)

mark.arthur@nottinghamforest.co.uk and nigel.Doughty@nottinghamforest.co.uk

I'd be unsure as whether Doughty still uses his forest email, though.

If you email them, just be polite and cordial. Phrase your questions succinctly and don't try to catch them out by quoting rumours you've heard, and you'll be likely to get a response.

Don't be surprised if they know a lot more about you than expect them to, though.

Cheers Rich, and I totally expect that Doughty has heard a lot of the questions and complaints before. However my concern is for the club and trying to get them to see the way forward, and that relegation to League 1 will be no good for either us or them.

Also, on a side note I've just heard from a radio interview over the weekend that if Cotterill let's a players go then those wages are still available for re-investment, whereas I thought Doughty was just honouring the player contracts themselves (so if they went then that would be that contract honouring done with) - that already helps a bit.

And don't worry, I'll curb my passions in my e-mails :)
 

Rich

Rice IV
Yeah, just be polite and you'll likely get a repsonse. They're both decent blokes, irrespective of any feeling you have about the running of the club.

I wish you luck and hope you get a repsonse.

It's excellent news if Doughty has agreed to put the money in regardless of whether it's a player he signed or not. I get the feeling he wants to step back but is afraid that no one else will stump up the readies for the life support machine of Forest.

I honestly think McClaren pissed him off more than Billy. For all Billy's moaning, he never did something directly against what the chairman spelled out. Everyone knows Doughty wanted to build the squad with ever improving youngsters - and Billy did sign players who would improve and increase in value, whereas McClaren signed Greening and Boateng.
 

Barnfather

Viv Anderson
I honestly think McClaren pissed him off more than Billy. For all Billy's moaning, he never did something directly against what the chairman spelled out. Everyone knows Doughty wanted to build the squad with ever improving youngsters

Sorry, is this some sort of parallel universe? When ND appointed SMC, there was lots of talk of competing for promotion, ambition, statements of intent etc. SMC was clearly led to believe that ND was taking a tilt at promotion however for whatever reason, that rug was pulled. It could well have been the failiure to secure Verhoek that caused jitters and made him fall back on FFP as a reason to back out. Either way, if you employ a manager like SMC (or Ericksson, or O'Neal) you do so on a basis of providing funds to bring players in, not specifically to develop youngsters.

THAT was the key mistake ND made, and when he realised he didn't have the stomach for the promotion tilt, it all started falling apart.

- and Billy did sign players who would improve and increase in value, whereas McClaren signed Greening and Boateng.

Two points here. Firstly, Billy Davies was also guilty of letting contracts run down (see Earnshaw, Wilson as examples) which cost us a fortune. I can't think of many examples of us making money off his signings. Second point, Greening was on his way here whilst Davies was manager. Boateng I will give you (although I still think he will be an important player in the coming months for us).
 

Rich

Rice IV
When I said developing players I didn't mean through the academy. I mean, for example, spending 31.6m on Gunter or £2m on Verhoek was agreeable to Doughty as they would either stick around and we'd get a good service from them, or they would be sellable at an age were we could get casholas for them.

Wilson is an isolated case that's been talked about a lot, and Earnshaw was at an age that had no saleable value.

For what it's worth, I've always maintained that letting Earnshaw and Tyson go was a big mistake. Wilson, well I'm quote glad we dug our heels in and made him a substitute for a year.

I don't agree that you have to kowtow to the expectations of a manager - I think it's quite the other way round. The manager is being employed by a club and has the interests of the club spelled out to him. Billy was handled in the same way, hence why he moaned so much. Both McClaren and Billy knew the score when they came here. The so called TAP was here before Billy and despite his protestations it remained.

Doughty made it clear to SM that he wanted players like Ver Hoek, and the money would be there for them. However it happened, SM convinced Doughty that Boateng would be a good signing. He's simply not in the ethos of the club.

It's all academic now, I think the balance has gone and we now need a bit of experience to keep us up - experience that we're not getting from our experienced players.

I'd like Mckenna to come back, though Greening did play well at the weekend.
 

Mr Jester

Banned
Sorry, is this some sort of parallel universe? When ND appointed SMC, there was lots of talk of competing for promotion, ambition, statements of intent etc. SMC was clearly led to believe that ND was taking a tilt at promotion however for whatever reason, that rug was pulled. It could well have been the failiure to secure Verhoek that caused jitters and made him fall back on FFP as a reason to back out. Either way, if you employ a manager like SMC (or Ericksson, or O'Neal) you do so on a basis of providing funds to bring players in, not specifically to develop youngsters.

THAT was the key mistake ND made, and when he realised he didn't have the stomach for the promotion tilt, it all started falling apart.

Unfortunately I have to agree. When Doughty realised that McClaren was inent on signing several, what he viewed as, "Premiership quality" players the brakes suddenly seemed to come on, and when the 2018 stadium was a no-go Doughty suddenly got cold feet too.


Two points here. Firstly, Billy Davies was also guilty of letting contracts run down (see Earnshaw, Wilson as examples) which cost us a fortune. I can't think of many examples of us making money off his signings. Second point, Greening was on his way here whilst Davies was manager. Boateng I will give you (although I still think he will be an important player in the coming months for us).

How much did Billy get involved with resigning player contracts? Surely this would have been dealt with more directly between board, player and agent the way Forest was run? (especially with the TAP + "Advise and recommend" scenario).
 

Rich

Rice IV
Had the board wanted to sell Earnshaw in January, for say £1m, and Billy had said he didn't want to sell him, what would be the best course of action?
 

Rowntree

Banned
Say what you like about Greening but he always shows for the ball just like McKenna did. Even when the crowd are on his back he's still there looking for the ball. If we had eleven players on the pitch who all had the same attitude no way would we be in the mess that we are. Plus McKenna was shot while he was still with us so there's not a lot of point in getting him back. We could certainly do with another player or two of his ilk though.
 

Rowntree

Banned
Had the board wanted to sell Earnshaw in January, for say £1m, and Billy had said he didn't want to sell him, what would be the best course of action?

Usually in the normal run of things we should sell but as we didn't replace people that we sold the thing that we should do becomes the thing that we shouldn't do.
 

GOBIAS

Ian Bowyer
I think the manager should be given a clear budget at the start of each season and if he doesn't like it then he knows what he can do. Whether this has happened at Forest for a very long time is doubtful. I'd much rather the Chairman say to Billy your budget is £2m on transfers and say £1m on wages and he knows where he stands. Rather than a vague statement about backing the manager if he needs it and all the other bull shit statements the clubs hierachy come out with.
 

Rich

Rice IV
Say what you like about Greening but he always shows for the ball just like McKenna did. Even when the crowd are on his back he's still there looking for the ball. If we had eleven players on the pitch who all had the same attitude no way would we be in the mess that we are. Plus McKenna was shot while he was still with us so there's not a lot of point in getting him back. We could certainly do with another player or two of his ilk though.

He does always show for the ball, and he is a better distributor of it, for me. What he lacks, though, is the desire to put his foot in where he might get hirt and break up everything coming through the middle. McKenna did that and it really took the pressure off the defence. We went from having a defence that leaked goals, to having the meanest defence around with McKenna in the middle, to, well leaking goals left right and centre again. Not controlling the midfield is the road to ruin, and Greening, as cultured as he is, isn't the battling ball winning midfielder that McKenna is/was. We need grit and determination in the middle, we need a punk with attitude, someone who isn't afraid to put his weight about. Having that in the iddle means we can have the luxury of players like McGugan. McKenna beats 'em up and robs the ball and gives it to McGugan. Simples.

Usually in the normal run of things we should sell but as we didn't replace people that we sold the thing that we should do becomes the thing that we shouldn't do.

People would be outraged if the board sold players without the managers consent, a bit like Kevin Campbell.

I think the manager should be given a clear budget at the start of each season and if he doesn't like it then he knows what he can do. Whether this has happened at Forest for a very long time is doubtful. I'd much rather the Chairman say to Billy your budget is £2m on transfers and say £1m on wages and he knows where he stands. Rather than a vague statement about backing the manager if he needs it and all the other bull shit statements the clubs hierachy come out with.

What do you mean by budget, though? Just the amount he can spend on players, or players and wages? What about agets fees, and contract sorting?

I think it works better if the manager has a ball park idea of what the owners want by cost, age, ability etc, then do their research and basically 'sell' their findings to the owner.
 
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