Standard of Referees (Sponsored by Steven Reid)

[valspoodle]

The first 'penalty' was one of those which if given onfield would have stood, the handball is debatable, but the third is clear, no debate.

We get nothing. Every pundit (even Jakielka on MOTD2) said if Everton had been denied all three they would be complaining, so to have all three chalked off is bizarre, to put it kindly.

To call the officials incompetent is polite.

 

[Gedling Reds]

What I don’t understand is all the bad decisions we’ve had against us, not once has the referee been sent to watch it back againon the screen. If he had every decision would have been overturned and gone in our favour. I mean yesterday’s 3rd penalty, the referee clearly indicates he thought young got the ball. All VAR had to do was to tell him that he hadn’t and to have another look.

This is what I don’t understand.. VAR seem to have made a decision in all of about 10 seconds on most decisions against us. How can you make a decision so quickly especially when it looks so blatant to everyone else on the replay..

 

[Robertson]

This is what I don’t understand.. VAR seem to have made a decision in all of about 10 seconds on most decisions against us. How can you make a decision so quickly especially when it looks so blatant to everyone else on the replay..

Yeah with other teams they sometimes at least agonise over it for five minutes before giving the wrong decision. With us they are usually super-efficient at rejecting any claims.

 

[bloodred]

Yeah with other teams they sometimes at least agonise over it for five minutes before giving the wrong decision. With us they are usually super-efficient at rejecting any claims.

 

[eyupmeduck]

As Gary Hypocritical Whinger Neville and Garth clueless and stupid Crooks keep putting our legendary managers name in their mouths saying that its not the sort of thing OBE would be involved in, here is some educational material for them to go and research.

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[Dino]

Keith Hackett's take on it from the Telegraph - Says that there were three clear penalties, that we're right to feel pissed off but the statement wasn't a great idea:

We need to know if Stuart Attwell is a Luton fan – but Forest went too far with statement

PGMOL knows which team each referee supports so if Nottingham Forest’s claim is true it is a question of poor management

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[bloodred]

The point being missed is that Forest raised the issue that the appointed var guy Attwell was a known Luton fan and as such could have a vested int in the outcome of the match. The PGMOL decided that it was not a problem. They called it wrong and as such Forest have every right to call them out as either inept or corrupt

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Keith Hackett's take on it from the Telegraph - Says that there were three clear penalties, that we're right to feel pissed off but the statement wasn't a great idea:

We need to know if Stuart Attwell is a Luton fan – but Forest went too far with statement

PGMOL knows which team each referee supports so if Nottingham Forest’s claim is true it is a question of poor management

www.telegraph.co.uk

I love all these "you went too far comments."

We might very well be relegated because of decisions gone against us. £120m a year is at stake. People's jobs at the club, local business in the area.

If the FA and PGMOL don't want the incovenience of rants, then they can either improve their refereeing standards or they can compensate us the revenue difference every year whilst we're out of the PL because of *their* problems. Until then, get f**ked.

Edit: Also, title "we need to know if Attwell was a Luton fan but..." - no, no buts, and Attwell is a known Luton fan. No debate.

 

[Louth Red]

While I think the only true PK was the Young challenge from behind on CHO, I also think this whole corruption angle is completely embarrassing. I mean, it's not my country, so I suppose I don't really know. But I don't think or understand why there is any sort of conspiracy to make sure we get relegated. We are a club with a higher profile than any number of sides in the Prem, have great fans and so on. So what is the basis of a conspiracy?

The most predictable post - I was at the game but waited until I’d seen the incidents post match.

You always find a reason to back the referee whatever the cirumstances.

 

[derbyshirered]

We all know the whole things corrupt,nothing more to be said.

 

[youreds1986]

Ultimately to think the statement was a good idea you need to believe:

1) There is a legitimate conspiracy to make decisions against Nottingham Forest and that the officials are being told to do so by the Pl or PGMOL. And that the PL wants to punish Forest but not Everton (who they have already handed two points deductions to)

2) That us raising the matters in this way would have a material chance of positively changing the above conspiracy (rather than inflaming it further).

3) The potential benefits of the statement outweigh negatives including both club reputation and the instilling of a victim culture within the coaching and playing staff.

If you don't believe all three, then it is inarguably a bad idea to put that statement out

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Ultimately to think the statement was a good idea you need to believe:

1) There is a legitimate conspiracy to make decisions against Nottingham Forest and that the officials are being told to do so by the Pl or PGMOL. And that the PL wants to punish Forest but not Everton (who they have already handed two points deductions to)

2) That us raising the matters in this way would have a material chance of positively changing the above conspiracy (rather than inflaming it further).

3) The potential benefits of the statement outweigh negatives including both club reputation and the instilling of a victim culture within the coaching and playing staff.

If you don't believe all three, then it is inarguably a bad idea to put that statement out

FTFY.

1) There is a hierarchy of clubs. Forest are at the bottom. Everton will get crap decisions against them when they face someone higher than them in the hierarchy.

2) I think our chances of making things worse are zero, given we got denied 3 clear penalties in a crucial game against a relegation rival. As such, what's the harm in going nuclear? What are they going to do next time, not give us 4 penalties?

3) The wording could have been better but the coaching and playing staff already are exhibiting victim culture. There is the potential to create a siege mentality on the back of this that didn't exist before.

So, after consideration, I'm on board with the badly worded tweet.

 

[Haych]

I’ve no idea how people can say ‘the decisions were wrong but they shouldn’t have made the statement’.

They really expect us to just shut up and accept relegation due to either complete incompetence or downright corruption.

As poor as we have been recently if we had even gotten 50% of the awful decisions in our favour since Nuno arrived we would be safe for another year.

 

[Louth Red]

Too many are conflating two very different issues -

The Forest Statement and the refereeing/VAR performance.

In my view the Statement was ill-advised and probably the result of building frustration.

The refereeing/VAR performance was beyond belief - an elite referee and an experienced referee in charge of VAR - neither of them (or the other officiating cohorts) saw anything wrong with the three issues. Totally mind boggling!!

The standard of officiating is at a very low ebb despite upgrading linesmen to assistant referees, adding a fourth official, adding a VAR official and his assistant, and the use of technology.

Our two seasons in the Premier League have demonstrated high levels of incompetence on far too many occasions.

We have to do our utmost to hold PGMOL & EPL to account for this state of affairs - but in the right way.

 

[bloodred]

How do we hold them to task whilst wearing a gag ?

 

[Robertson]

Worth noting in amongst all the “LOL of course the refs aren’t biased” is that Forest are one of the few clubs for which this has actually been proven to be the case in the past, the Anderlecht semifinal in 1984, and UEFA covered it up for years. No doubt everyone thought those allegations were bullshit at the time, I’m too young to remember to be honest.

Why the hell do people think that in a game awash with more shady money from all over the globe than ever before that it’s not potentially happening now?

I’m not committing to the idea it definitely is happening, but I sure as hell entertain the possibility it might be.

 

[magicwoand]

I love how we've put the cat amongst the pigeons and the FA, Premier League and PGMOL are in their disaster bunker trying to work out the best way to punish us. Come at us fukwits.

 

[Lefkasman]

Wouldn't it be better to have retired refs on var. Removing the old pals act. It's not like you need someone who's fit and has to run around they just need to know the rules.

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[MaxiRobriguez]

Why the hell do people think that in a game awash with more shady money from all over the globe than ever before that it’s not potentially happening now?

Because British people like to kowtow to authority.

Tories siphon off billions of pounds of taxpayer money to companies started by their mates 24 hours prior. Reaction? No one cares.

Powerful royal doing his best "I'm not a nonce" impression. Reaction? Oh well we couldn't possibly put him in jail.

It's in our blood as a people to accept our place at the bottom of the pile. We like it, it's familiarity.

 

[Lefkasman]

Anyone want to pass on the reg number of Attwells car to Mr Marinakis?

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[eyupmeduck]

Too many are conflating two very different issues -

The Forest Statement and the refereeing/VAR performance.

In my view the Statement was ill-advised and probably the result of building frustration.

The refereeing/VAR performance was beyond belief - an elite referee and an experienced referee in charge of VAR - neither of them (or the other officiating cohorts) saw anything wrong with the three issues. Totally mind boggling!!

The standard of officiating is at a very low ebb despite upgrading linesmen to assistant referees, adding a fourth official, adding a VAR official and his assistant, and the use of technology.

Our two seasons in the Premier League have demonstrated high levels of incompetence on far too many occasions.

We have to do our utmost to hold PGMOL & EPL to account for this state of affairs - but in the right way.

I think that my view would be that there isn't a proper way to raise complaints and as a result the traditional path of "make egregious error, apologise, continue to make egregious errors" is not correct and also does not permit accountability to the wider football community that are impacted.

I caveat this by saying that I do not for one second think that the job of a referee or pgmol operator is easy and that I do think that they should have a level of respect apportioned to them as custodians of the rule of the game, I am not anti authority but I am anti no one taking accountability.

That being said, the errors cost clubs points and points do reflect themselves in prize money. As a result I would say that there should be a wider but specific complaints process that could be overseen by an independent ombudsman whereby cash is provided to compensate for errors that have had a potentially determining factor on a game result, maybe on a sliding scale. A formal public process would have allowed us to make a statement which essentially would have said that we were unhappy with the performance of the officials and have raised a formal complaint would have been less inflammatory/controversial.

I would also make publicly available at the time and after conversations around decisions. Further I would also have some kind of scoring system where matches are watched back by officials and these are published in a league table format. An example would be say onfield officials made 84 live decisions correctly and 1 incorrect (Awarded a throw in the wrong way) and the same for pgmol. You could then have a rating system whereby officials were properly scored on performance and that rating is known.

The club statement is not one that you would expect to see but the focus being on the statement doesn't allow for the content to be analysed. PGMOL could have avoided it by not having the official on duty as requested. I don't think the request is unreasonable.

I don't know where we go honestly though, we were refereed by Anthony Taylor that has had beef with one of our coaches previously and booked another one yesterday. As a human being on either side of the equation surely there is an element of him having preconceived ideas about our behaviour and us having the same notions about his capabilities. We may have widened that to all onfield and off field officials now as well.

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[Statto]

The thing is, I've seen plenty of officials this season who have either done a good enough or excellent job or simply not been involved in a moment of controversy for either us or the opposition.

Jared Gillett is the obvious one, but I think he has only reffed us twice this season, maybe a couple other times on VAR but we already know the VAR's input is limited.
He's also a Liverpool fan so there's no reason why he wouldn't be looking at our matches unless we were playing them or indeed one of their rivals (though actually, as an Aussie would he be that geared towards disliking Man U, Everton or teams around them like City and Arsenal and show bias as we're claiming Attwell may have).

The other two are in select group 2 but have done a decent enough job when I've seen them and probably aren't too far off promotion - Sam Allison and Rebecca Welch.

The likes of Attwell, Oliver, Tierney, Taylor have had plenty of controversial moments such as pens not given or not even really considered and also there's Rob Jones who attracted a lot of ire for the Bournemouth match and understandably so.

Other than Madley, none of the other select group seem to stand out either way in terms of controversy from this season.

I know the match table on wikipedia lists the main referee and the PL site and BBC do but is there anywhere where the full team is listed including all 4 onfield officials and the VAR/AVAR at Stockley Park? It'd be interesting to see where this sits with controversial decisions and certain people.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

Wouldn't it be better to have retired refs on var. Removing the old pals act. It's not like you need someone who's fit and has to run around they just need to know the rules.

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That wouldn't work. They were almost blind when refereeing and your eyesight gets worse as you get older.
Seriously though it would be a good place for ex-pros to be trained up for.

 

[Collymore!]

What we have done with yesterday’s antics is ensure that we won’t get another 50:50 decision this season.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

What we have done with yesterday’s antics is ensure that we won’t get another 50:50 decision this season.

We weren't getting them anyway!