GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
After the Johnson sale I don’t think we are likely to go anyway near breaching again anyway are we?
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Orel Johnson Mangala
- Thread starter Heffing Psycho!
- Start date
Red Dog in a Forest
Viv Anderson
A long rambling post (as per usual!), regarding the possible loss of Mangala:
Taking a wider lens on our ability to score, but not concede, it points to the same issues that we had under Cooper.
Cooper couldn’t cut out the simple mistakes / switching off, and neither can Nuno (so far).
What we are seeing is that we always had the ability to play more attractive football (and score more goals), but not the defensive ability to back it up, even when we were ultra defensive.
Looking at Nuno’s small sample size vs Cooper’s for the league:
Nuno:
P4 W2 D0 L2 GF9 GA8
PPG 1.5
GFPG 2.25
GAPG 2
Cooper:
P17 W3 D5 L9 GF17 GA30
PPG 0.825
GFPG 1
GAPG 1.75
Despite how good Mangala was (under the Cooper system), we still lost the majority of games, even if we let less in. Our defenders are conceding roughly the same amount, so for me, our issues are at the bottom half of the pitch meaning changes are required there.
Here’s a comparison of our two DM’s:
Sangare - P11 - Points 10 PPG 0.91
Mangala - P18 - Points 14 (excluding his 88th minute cameo) PPG 0.77
They’ve played ten games together. For a total of 7 points.
This shows that they are not effective playing together (admittedly mostly in a three). So, as we are playing a two, it comes down to do we sell our new 30m signing (highly unlikely), or double / triple our money on a 13m signing who statistically performs worse (when looking at results only)? It’s a no brainer imo (point finally made
)
The next question then, is why are we looking at (as far as rumours go) attacking players, when our issues are at the back?
My rationale, is that we have next to zero cover for Elanga, MGW (and to a lesser extent Awoniyi), so we are absolutely screwed if those players get long-term injuries and we will likely go down via a lack of gosls. Whereas defensively, we are pretty much as shit as we’ve always been.
Goalkeeper is of course, our most key position to improve. Then a winger.
After that, I believe LB is a key position. Yes, we have Aina and Toffolo there (presuming Tavares leaves), but Toffolo shouldn’t be 1st choice.
RB would be Aina and Montiel, with Williams an option on the RW (as cover). If we don’t move on Aurier (he covers CB), and Felipe, McKenna (who I’d retain) and Worrall leave.
We still have no cover for Wood (if he gets injured) and Awoniyi has a set-back. We signed Origi for this reason, so when he goes, we need someone else happy to play second fiddle and a great goal scorer (Wilson, if he’d come).
Long post over.
Taking a wider lens on our ability to score, but not concede, it points to the same issues that we had under Cooper.
Cooper couldn’t cut out the simple mistakes / switching off, and neither can Nuno (so far).
What we are seeing is that we always had the ability to play more attractive football (and score more goals), but not the defensive ability to back it up, even when we were ultra defensive.
Looking at Nuno’s small sample size vs Cooper’s for the league:
Nuno:
P4 W2 D0 L2 GF9 GA8
PPG 1.5
GFPG 2.25
GAPG 2
Cooper:
P17 W3 D5 L9 GF17 GA30
PPG 0.825
GFPG 1
GAPG 1.75
Despite how good Mangala was (under the Cooper system), we still lost the majority of games, even if we let less in. Our defenders are conceding roughly the same amount, so for me, our issues are at the bottom half of the pitch meaning changes are required there.
Here’s a comparison of our two DM’s:
Sangare - P11 - Points 10 PPG 0.91
Mangala - P18 - Points 14 (excluding his 88th minute cameo) PPG 0.77
They’ve played ten games together. For a total of 7 points.
This shows that they are not effective playing together (admittedly mostly in a three). So, as we are playing a two, it comes down to do we sell our new 30m signing (highly unlikely), or double / triple our money on a 13m signing who statistically performs worse (when looking at results only)? It’s a no brainer imo (point finally made
)The next question then, is why are we looking at (as far as rumours go) attacking players, when our issues are at the back?
My rationale, is that we have next to zero cover for Elanga, MGW (and to a lesser extent Awoniyi), so we are absolutely screwed if those players get long-term injuries and we will likely go down via a lack of gosls. Whereas defensively, we are pretty much as shit as we’ve always been.
Goalkeeper is of course, our most key position to improve. Then a winger.
After that, I believe LB is a key position. Yes, we have Aina and Toffolo there (presuming Tavares leaves), but Toffolo shouldn’t be 1st choice.
RB would be Aina and Montiel, with Williams an option on the RW (as cover). If we don’t move on Aurier (he covers CB), and Felipe, McKenna (who I’d retain) and Worrall leave.
We still have no cover for Wood (if he gets injured) and Awoniyi has a set-back. We signed Origi for this reason, so when he goes, we need someone else happy to play second fiddle and a great goal scorer (Wilson, if he’d come).
Long post over.
NFFCForeverRed
First Team Squad
Sangare is in what way better than Mangala ? He has been nowhere near him so far. Everyone just puts him in the team because of the price tag. Needs to wake the f*** up and inject some urgency in to his game.
Red Dog in a Forest
Viv Anderson
So, as we are playing a two, it comes down to do we sell our new 30m signing (highly unlikely), or double / triple our money on a 13m signing who statistically performs worse (when looking at results only)?
I admit, it was a long post. So, highlighting what I was judging Sangare on (results only), and the PPG.
I didn’t say he was better. I simply said we get more points when Sangare is in the team.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
We need to make Sangare work out for us. We can't really afford a £35m FFP anchor who we can't shift and won't play.
We need Nuno to be lots of different things but one of them is getting the best out of Sangare.
We need Nuno to be lots of different things but one of them is getting the best out of Sangare.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
I think Nuno will get him fitter which will help. Hopefully with that and more PL games in his natural position he comes good.
enlightened
First Team Squad
I disagree. Our defence to the charge that we have received is that we were taking FFP seriously and managing the club in a way that promoted its long term financial stability. I don't believe it's a defence that's going to work by the way and, given that, I don't think what we do in this transfer window, as long as we don't go mad, will help either.
We're not in the market for multiple signings anymore anyway - to an extent we had no option when we were promoted as the squad was so thin - although we did take that to something of an extreme. But now we should only be adding in moderation to improve the squad and we should be shifting out the players we don't want anymore. It seems as if this is what we are trying to do.. It's absolutely clear that a good goalkeeper is a serious need for this club right now. If that is the case then we should go out and get one. We'll be judged on that when 'now' is included in the FFP period under review.
Red Ray's Redlist
Viv Anderson
Based on the Johnson sale being booked in this PSR cycle it would seem better to push future sales out to the next PSR cycle. So an obligation to buy like the Wood deal would seem to suit us best.
youreds1986
Geoff Thomas
Yep. Although depends what we want to spend in this cycle I guess. Plus it's useful to cover the championship limits for another year.
Gariballdidaz
A. Trialist
If it's a case of letting Mangala go to reduce squad size rather than down to PSR, I'd rather see us get rid of players who aren't benefitting us at present like Serge, Felipe, Kouyate and McKenna (all out of contract in the summer?). Add the loan signings of Divock and Nuno and that's 6 squad places. In the 10 league games since the Villa win at the start of November, these 6 players have made a combined 14 appearances, it's not like they will be missed as they're not really involved for one reason or another. I'd be happy for them to join Arter, Horvath, Mighten, Panzo, G Shelvey, Laryea, Hwang and anyone else I've missed in bomb squad FC.
Monkman
Grenville Morris
If we sell Mangala it's 100% for PSR and being able to reinforce, whether it's in this cycle or the next one.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
Yeah but hard to find takers, certainly anyone willing to pay a fee for players they could pick up on a free in the summer.
Also Felipe is injured, and Aurier and Kouyate could well be at Afcon beyond the end of the window.
McKenna I could see moving on, possibly for a small fee.
As for Mangala, I like him, but sometimes you have to take the money when it’s on offer.
Morpeth
John Robertson
It’ll be both PSR and that he’s not wanted.
Monkman
Grenville Morris
But I would wager that if PSR were not an issue, we'd keep him and move on less valuable players like Kouyate, Aurier, McKenna etc.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
In Sangare's last game @ Newcastle - he played probably his best match for us.
I think Nuno will get the best out of him - not sure that it will work that well with Yates alongside him though - needs someone more dynamic like Danilo.
If everyone is available. I think we will end up with Sangare-Danilo-Dominguez.
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
I disagree with the first paragraph! - as per my previous comments
Yet - fully agree with the 2nd paragraph - we have the nucleous of a squad now. We need to add a bit more quality and gradually improve
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Kouyate will surely get moved on soon because of his age - either he'll choose to retire or go to a less demanding league.
Monkman
Grenville Morris
He tends to play 4231 with 2 CMs though, so where is Dominguez playing?
Monkman
Grenville Morris
Agree, and I'm not saying he won't move on, but I don't think we'd be getting rid of Mangala if it weren't financially prudent.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Dominguez has been playing in one of the '3' roles every time he's appeared under Nuno.
Monkman
Grenville Morris
But only because of players missing. I'm not sure where he plays if (as I'd expect) that 3 is RW, Gibbs-White, LW.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
I don't see any reason why he doesn't keep competing for one of those positions. He presses high up, why ask him to play deep?
PlayedOnGrass
First Team Squad
In the 3 with MGW/Elanga - behind Awoniya in the perfect world
Matt
Stuart Pearce
Mate he presses the tea lady, the steward and the directors box. You could put him in net and his heat map would still just be a red pitch
Matt
Stuart Pearce
Ah yeah, the lads with 6 months left on their contracts
You can’t sell if people don’t wanna buy.