Official Matchday 17: Nottingham Forest vs Tottenham Hotspur, Fri. 15th December 2023 @ 20:00hrs

[Gyros Peter]

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in his game at all. We were fleeced. 20 million pounds for nothing.

I can give you five million back right now.

My point is that you are seeing nothing (well nothing + 4 goals) because we have never given him the kind of setup that he needs - he thrived at Burnley with repeated balls in the box in hard working press. He has never been a target man.

 

[Roger Roger 747]

There are so many problems at Forest at the moment and time is not on our side to sort them all out , it's like we are firefighting all the time. When we bring in players they are not quality signings ,those get snapped up by City, Utd , Liverpool and Arsenal. We bring in players who have an impressive C/V but are either out of favour with there currant teams or journey men. The relationship between owner and manager seems to have broken down completely .I fear that whoever is in charge when the transfer window opens in January will just get some loan players in. We also can't hold on to our best players ,we have become a selling club, we say that our best players are not for sale but we let them go at the end of the day. What has happened to the money that we got for Johnson ? Our club Captain Joe Worrall is training alone and no McKenna. The only quality striker we have seems to be allows injured in fact we have a massive problem with injuries at the club. Put all of this together and it makes you realise why we are is such a mess.

 

[The Frog]

The fan base is turning toxic which is sad to see.

Do you go to games? Not meaning to be rude but away from home the last few games the fans have been blaring out Cooper chants. Yesterday was no different.

A couple of pointless and completely idiotic boos at the end of the game followed by applause and more cooper chants

I have seen the CG very toxic in my time but it is not like that now.

 

[The Frog]

I can give you five million back right now.

My point is that you are seeing nothing (well nothing + 4 goals) because we have never given him the kind of setup that he needs - he thrived at Burnley with repeated balls in the box in hard working press. He has never been a target man.

Exactly this. He thrived when he was alongside Ashley Barnes who was doing a lot of the hold up with 2 wingers swinging balls into the box.

In the current setup he is completely pointless. Whoever signed him needs to be asked serious questions as it was always going to be a bad fit. We didn’t and still don’t have any wingers who cross the ball.

That said, I can’t excuse his lack of effort and quality. I was furious with him last night as barely managed to challenge for a header and was constantly flat footed it was painful. It’s like he reacts 2 or 3 seconds after the event all the time.

 

[Captain Sinister]

He's a second ball player - touches deep in the final third and movement into the box to work the space and find and finish whatever is thrown in there (repeatedly). It's exactly why Newcastle paid 25m for him.

Perhaps one of the ball boys can give him a second ball.
Wood didn't touch the first ball, bar once when he trapped it 20 yards to a spurs player.

 

[Annesleyred]

I think we panic a lot , especially at home as our passes mostly went to the opposition. If this continues we will be the team that never deserved to down but did. We have got to overcome this before the New year then grind every point we can out of the rest of the season. The battle has started.

 

[Gyros Peter]

I think we panic a lot , especially at home as our passes mostly went to the opposition. If this continues we will be the team that never deserved to down but did. We have got to overcome this before the New year then grind every point we can out of the rest of the season. The battle has started.

Got to think that's a confidence thing - cooper spoke about believing we have the players on the pitch to do the work we need to do at both ends, which I thought was both absolutely correct and a bit desperate sounding.

A win changes everything though - we've seen that - and we made sours look pretty ordinary so we're doing something right.

 

[terrier57]

Brighton, Brentford have a brand of football that works in the Premier League regardless of the players.
Even the most devout of SC fans would have to admit we don't and don't look like creating any time soon.
It all stems back to the first 6 plus games of last season when we were getting hammered and the manager adopted the siege mentality. We haven't ever really got out of that thinking so all the other sides know how to play us so it's really obvious to most that if you give the opposition the lions share of the ball, eventually the sheer law of averages dictates they will score through skill/opposition mistakes etc.
Pointless blaming the likes of Turner when you have a defender constantly passing back and eventually the opposition press enough to create the mistake.
Sorry but that's coaching and management issues. The midfield and defence is mostly so deep that creativity has become alien.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Perhaps one of the ball boys can give him a second ball.
Wood didn't touch the first ball, bar once when he trapped it 20 yards to a spurs player.

Slightly better/pacier delivery from Williams last night and he might have had a goal - as it was the keeper smothered it well. Was it his header or Yates that came back off the line too?

 

[dr_horse]

Brighton, Brentford have a brand of football that works in the Premier League regardless of the players.
Even the most devout of SC fans would have to admit we don't and don't look like creating any time soon.

It's not regardless of the players; they still need to recruit the right players, and neither of those sides would do well with dodgy keepers and no decent strikers.

Agree we should be working towards something similar to Brighton and Brentford and yes it appears we're nowhere near that, but they have a consistent approach and strategy top to bottom, whereas just this season we have a new chairman, whatever Wilson/Dane does, and our previously fired head of recruitment brought back as a consultant.

I'm not insisting by any this that Cooper couldn't/shouldn't do better, but it's not all at his door, and I don't think we'll be much further along under a different manager.






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[EmmersonForest4]

It's not regardless of the players; they still need to recruit the right players, and neither of those sides would do well with dodgy keepers and no decent strikers.

Agree we should be working towards something similar to Brighton and Brentford and yes it appears we're nowhere near that, but they have a consistent approach and strategy top to bottom, whereas just this season we have a new chairman, whatever Wilson/Dane does, and our previously fired head of recruitment brought back as a consultant.

I'm not insisting by any this that Cooper couldn't/shouldn't do better, but it's not all at his door, and I don't think we'll be much further along under a different manager.






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However Chris Wood is a capable striker in the prem and cooper is entirely incapable of building something around him because he is obsessed with the low block. The low block makes us toothless.

MGW is a decent number 10 as well and he should be scoring goals if bloody Doucoure can behind a striker than MGW can. However again cooper is totally incapable. Sangare was wanted by Liverpool at one stage and other big sides yet cooper can’t get him in.

I don’t expect expansive possession based football but I expect much more cohesion than this

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Brighton, Brentford have a brand of football that works in the Premier League regardless of the players.
Even the most devout of SC fans would have to admit...

We aren't Brighton or Brentford, who have building steadily for years, who have a streamlined targeted approach to recruitment and outgoings, who take set-backs in their stride and go again, who are ten+ years into their projects.

If you want to compare us to any club then the best fit is Chelsea in the Boehly era, who's playing staff attrition is just ridiculous with no loyalty to any manager nor any obvious long term vision beyond throw enough at it until it sticks. I'll let you decide if Chelsea are over or under performing.

 

[Robertson]

take set-backs in their stride and go again.

Absolutely agree we should do more of this. People are completely losing their shit over a few bad results. Smash Bournemouth on on Saturday and we’ll be two points behind them. And possibly Brentford for that matter unless they have a good day tomorrow.

 

[Monkman]

Harsh - Elanga laid on a golden chance for Boly (and Williams was his assist?), was positive in his play and attempted (and completed) more take ons.

If we are going to whinge about players, we are targeting the wrong one in Elanga, who spent most of his night played out of position but remained out main/only real attacking threat.

I think this is another good moment to point out that at this stage last season, Brennan Johnson (who I think we all agree we miss) had 2 goals and 0 assists. Elanga has 3 and 3.

 

[dr_horse]

However Chris Wood is a capable striker in the prem and cooper is entirely incapable of building something around him because he is obsessed with the low block. The low block makes us toothless.

MGW is a decent number 10 as well and he should be scoring goals if bloody Doucoure can behind a striker than MGW can. However again cooper is totally incapable. Sangare was wanted by Liverpool at one stage and other big sides yet cooper can’t get him in.

I don’t expect expansive possession based football but I expect much more cohesion than this

I don't really follow;

You're saying Cooper has the players to play a style that suits Wood, but is just choosing not to?

You're saying MGW always being crap at shooting but now also fluffing his lines in threatening positions is Cooper's fault?

Sangare was showing signs of settling, then he got sick, played rubbish (maybe rushed back?), and is now injured. I imagine Liverpool do have better doctors than Forest but what could Cooper do about that?


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[Studdenzi]

Cooper is far from blameless. The away form is abysmal and the inconsistency of the line-ups and poor subs (e.g Luton) have cost us dearly. But the summer recruitment has been atrocious. Some of them might come good but the keepers are clearly not up to it and the fact we have no back up for Awoniyi (Wood was never the solution and Origi was only ever likely to be a sub) despite spending a fortune is incompetence of the highest order.

 

[Wes' Organ]

No manager was getting more out of that group of players than Coops did yesterday. Almost to a man they gave 100% effort and we created more than enough chances to win the game. The only possible exception would be that a more ruthless manager may have turned Chris Wood into fire wood and heated a room for a night. I understand that he isn't a target man but he is still a big man and an athlete who should be able to adapt to suit the situation.

 

[oxonred]

I played in goal semi pro 45 years ago and I reckon I could still have saved that second goal now at age 68. The kick was pathetic, but the way Taylor got down on his knees and let the shot go through his hands was unforgivable.

 

[trentside69]

I played in goal semi pro 45 years ago and I reckon I could still have saved that second goal now at age 68. The kick was pathetic, but the way Taylor got down on his knees and let the shot go through his hands was unforgivable.

I was fuming with him last night but today I'm thinking forgive and forget.
He's probably our best option in goal at the moment so we need to support him and he does make some decent saves .

 

[Malwood]

There was probably 3 players off side - but still hate it. Wish they’d just bin it and give the authority back to the match day officials.

Totally agree

 

[Omar Devone Little]

In the current setup he is completely pointless. Whoever signed him needs to be asked serious questions as it was always going to be a bad fit. We didn’t and still don’t have any wingers who cross the ball.

Apparently it was Cooper who wanted him.

We'll never know for sure but if it was that is very concerning. Firstly that Cooper thought a slow target man like Wood would work in a team that plays on the counter and relies on speed, and secondly that even a year down the line he still doesn't seem to know how to use him properly.

 

[The Frog]

Apparently it was Cooper who wanted him.

We'll never know for sure but if it was that is very concerning. Firstly that Cooper thought a slow target man like Wood would work in a team that plays on the counter and relies on speed, and secondly that even a year down the line he still doesn't seem to know how to use him properly.

as you say we will never know, but I really don’t think it was a coincidence that Lee Charnley turned up and suddenly we signed 2 duds from Newcastle.

Cooper may well have signed off on it as apparently he is very good in the dressing room but it’s quite clear he isn’t in charge of signings…the question is whether that is cause or effect of the wood type signings

 

[The Frog]

No manager was getting more out of that group of players than Coops did yesterday. Almost to a man they gave 100% effort and we created more than enough chances to win the game. The only possible exception would be that a more ruthless manager may have turned Chris Wood into fire wood and heated a room for a night. I understand that he isn't a target man but he is still a big man and an athlete who should be able to adapt to suit the situation.

As much as I agree he got the best out of the players on the pitch the major problem (I suspect at board level mainly) will be he has so far not been able to get a consistent tune out of our ‘better/higher profile’ players.

MGW - out of form but spent a large chunk on the wing
Montiel - forgot we had him
Tavares - ditto
Dominguez - looked mustard and came with good pedigree but got oddly got moved backwards in one game and he has stumbled since
Sangare - obviously hasn’t adapted quickly but he was also playing at the base of a midfield when we saw a 30m player and then proceed to play him further forward

Could anyone have got a better tune out of Yates and Kouyate in midfield with a back 5 probably not. Is the fact we are resorting back to that the main issue. Absolutely.

I want to be clear I am Cooper in but I feel there are definitely excuses being made for a lot of what is going on. We are chopping and changing wildly and ending up with a championship type team and setup.

 

[dr_horse]

As much as I agree he got the best out of the players on the pitch the major problem (I suspect at board level mainly) will be he has so far not been able to get a consistent tune out of our ‘better/higher profile’ players.

MGW - out of form but spent a large chunk on the wing
Montiel - forgot we had him
Tavares - ditto
Dominguez - looked mustard and came with good pedigree but got oddly got moved backwards in one game and he has stumbled since
Sangare - obviously hasn’t adapted quickly but he was also playing at the base of a midfield when we saw a 30m player and then proceed to play him further forward

Could anyone have got a better tune out of Yates and Kouyate in midfield with a back 5 probably not. Is the fact we are resorting back to that the main issue. Absolutely.

I want to be clear I am Cooper in but I feel there are definitely excuses being made for a lot of what is going on. We are chopping and changing wildly and ending up with a championship type team and setup.

Dominguez is the big one for me.

Never been the same since he was hooked vs west ham, but before that he looked like a world beater.

You never know what issues he's got off the pitch but he could be a difference maker.

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[Wes' Organ]

As much as I agree he got the best out of the players on the pitch the major problem (I suspect at board level mainly) will be he has so far not been able to get a consistent tune out of our ‘better/higher profile’ players.

MGW - out of form but spent a large chunk on the wing
Montiel - forgot we had him
Tavares - ditto
Dominguez - looked mustard and came with good pedigree but got oddly got moved backwards in one game and he has stumbled since
Sangare - obviously hasn’t adapted quickly but he was also playing at the base of a midfield when we saw a 30m player and then proceed to play him further forward

Could anyone have got a better tune out of Yates and Kouyate in midfield with a back 5 probably not. Is the fact we are resorting back to that the main issue. Absolutely.

I want to be clear I am Cooper in but I feel there are definitely excuses being made for a lot of what is going on. We are chopping and changing wildly and ending up with a championship type team and setup.

All of that makes perfect sense assuming the players are machines and no other factors are in play.
MGW has willingly fitted in and given 100% wherever he's been needed, you could easily argue that that is to the manager's credit. If you don't have the players to play your preferred formation then you have to make the best of what you have and the player has backed that.
Montiel, hasn't earned my trust yet so why should he be displacing anyone?
Tavares comes with a reputation for being unreliable, maybe that's a character trait that will never be changed?
Dominguez, his old club snapped our hands off in a swap deal for Fruiler who most of us wouldn't have anywhere near the team, go figure?
Sangare has disappointed me other than in brief flashes but apparently he's been suffering with a virus which has to be pretty much impossible to play through at this level. To compound that, he's now injured. I think that he will come good, when he's fully fit.
I think that Coop's big mistake was trying to integrate too many players into the starting 11 too quickly, was he under pressure to play the new signings?
All of the above is absolute conjecture but we can either chose to believe that the man who has never let us down before is suddenly incapable of driving us on or consider that there may be other issues that are affecting his ability to do the job.
I chose the latter, Coops in.