Nuno Herlander Simões Espírito Santo

[MaxiRobriguez]

Would you have sacked Cooper if someone had told you that his replacement would have you sitting in 17th, only 3 points above the team in 18th?

Difficult question to answer

Pretty easy answer: No

Also wouldn't have sacked Cooper if Nuno had us in the same position and points away from relegation as Cooper had us in for the majority of the season until the undermining began the few games before his eventual sacking.

In fact, the only justification for moving Cooper on, as a few of us said at the time, was top half minimum, if not pushing for Europe. It needed to be a significant improvement to justify upsetting the apple cart because the risk/reward equation for sacking him was skewed towards risk, and that's exactly what has happened. Hindsight not required.

 

[dr_horse]

Niakhate-gate against Villa.

Not starting either our most in form attacker or most productive attacker this season against Brighton.

Trying to hold a 1 goal lead away from home when we've only kept one clean sheet in the league since he joined.

MGW still taking set pieces!!!!!

This guy is f***ing it up.

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[Erik]

Niakhate-gate against Villa.

Not starting either our most in form attacker or most productive attacker this season against Brighton.

Trying to hold a 1 goal lead away from home when we've only kept one clean sheet in the league since he joined.

MGW still taking set pieces!!!!!

This guy is f***ing it up.

It's not his fault.

Cooper's making him do it.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Niakhate-gate against Villa.

Not starting either our most in form attacker or most productive attacker this season against Brighton.

Trying to hold a 1 goal lead away from home when we've only kept one clean sheet in the league since he joined.

MGW still taking set pieces!!!!!

This guy is f***ing it up.

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Ouch, you make a great point about trying to hold a 1-goal lead especially.

I said it before in my appraisal of Nuno, I think he's slow.

Slow doesn't necessarily mean bad, in the right situation taking time with stuff can be a bonus, but we're not in that situation. Stuff like yesterday's defensive subs and "Niakhate-gate" shows a bloke who's not really got his finger on the pulse, or who isn't working to make that happen.

Honestly, one of my biggest WTF moments was when it was reported Nuno didn't want a keeper until late in the window - did he research our team in any way, shape or form when he arrived? Literally 30k+ could have told him one was needed.

But I seriously dread to think who Marinakis would panic-appoint if Nuno went too. I wouldn't sack Nuno, I'd get him off the spliffs, give him a cold shower every morning and tell him to start working harder. His mind is several yards behind the pace, and doing stupid stuff like wearing the team out in pointless cup competitions proves that too.

 

[SandyReid]

I think Nuno deserves credit and criticism

Credit
- Fashioning Tavares, Hudson Odoi, Omabamidele, Wood and Williams into players of rich promise
- Playing a system that gets goals out of Wood

Criticism
- Defensive errors still
- not replacing Turner earlier
- not encouraging the team to be ruthless enough
- Niakhate at left back why

The intangibles
- the VAR decisions
- the close shaves from Elanga
- the injuries
- the beguiling case of me wanting to praise Murillo despite him not being in a team with clean sheets
- our défense is not as good as last year, if we’d had Lodi all season I think we’d be fine

Overall this season has been extremely fine margins, my gut take being we could so easily have won a lot more games, eg Palace away. I think both managers have been competent in places, the only thing that seems to lack from both of them is a bit of daring to go for games.

It’s kinda a given in the premier league that you’ll lose 10-20 games, better to try and kill some teams off than leave every game hanging on.

 

[SandyReid]

Toffolo is a squad player (imo), I don’t think he should be a starter. Having him around has proven it’s worth, without him we’d be stuck with Niakhate at LB!

The last time Tavares played was West Ham. Since then we’ve scored 3 and conceded 8 (if you include the Man United game).

In the games where either Aina or Tavares have started (since Nuno came in):

Newcastle - W3-1 - Aina starts / Tavares replaces.
Man U - W2-1 - Aina starts / Toffolo comes on at 87 minutes (when it’s already 2-1).
Brentford - L3-2 - Tavares plays the full game.
Bournemouth - D1-1 - Tavares plays the 90.
Newcastle - L3-2 - Tavares plays the 90.
West Ham - W2-0 - Tavares plays the 90.

10 points in six PL games vs one draw in seven (if you include Man U in the cup) since they haven’t been available.

We also scored 12 and conceded 9 in those six games.

Aina and / or Tavares give the opposition something to worry about. Without them we are unable to counter as fast, score as frequently and we invite teams onto us.

Not a slight on Toffolo, but could our problems be as simple as Toffolo not fitting Nuno’s preferred system? It’s a team game of course and this could all be coincidence, but the stats are very compelling.

Very compelling - kinda explains the rationale of Niakhate at Villa, wanting to get pace in there

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I think Nuno deserves credit and criticism

Credit
- Fashioning Tavares, Hudson Odoi, Omabamidele, Wood and Williams into players of rich promise
- Playing a system that gets goals out of Wood

Criticism
- Defensive errors still
- not replacing Turner earlier
- not encouraging the team to be ruthless enough
- Niakhate at left back why

The intangibles
- the VAR decisions
- the close shaves from Elanga
- the injuries
- the beguiling case of me wanting to praise Murillo despite him not being in a team with clean sheets
- our défense is not as good as last year, if we’d had Lodi all season I think we’d be fine

Overall this season has been extremely fine margins, my gut take being we could so easily have won a lot more games, eg Palace away. I think both managers have been competent in places, the only thing that seems to lack from both of them is a bit of daring to go for games.

It’s kinda a given in the premier league that you’ll lose 10-20 games, better to try and kill some teams off than leave every game hanging on.

Great post.

I'd add...

Credit
- Fashioning Tavares, Hudson Odoi, Omabamidele, Wood and Williams into players of rich promise
- Playing a system that gets goals out of Wood
- Getting some goodness out of Origi
- Improving our general play
- Having to deal with a shit FFP/PSR situation, when he would have come here with the promise of big spends for top 10


Criticism
- Defensive errors still (PARTICULARLY NOT USING THE SET PIECE COACH)
- not replacing Turner earlier
- not encouraging the team to be ruthless enough
- Niakhate at left back why
- Poor game management at times
- Still hasn't formed key partnerships in key positions
- Burned players out in pointless cup games
- Allowed Mangala to go instead of insisting someone else who contributed less was sold
- Picking Reyna but not playing him

The intangibles
- the VAR decisions
- the close shaves from Elanga
- the injuries
- the beguiling case of me wanting to praise Murillo despite him not being in a team with clean sheets
- our défense is not as good as last year, if we’d had Lodi all season I think we’d be fine


Key thing for me when judging though is how many of these are down to him, and how much of them are down to others above him. A lot of it will come out in the wash in time I dare say.

 

[glosterred]

Pretty easy answer: No

Also wouldn't have sacked Cooper if Nuno had us in the same position and points away from relegation as Cooper had us in for the majority of the season until the undermining began the few games before his eventual sacking.

In fact, the only justification for moving Cooper on, as a few of us said at the time, was top half minimum, if not pushing for Europe. It needed to be a significant improvement to justify upsetting the apple cart because the risk/reward equation for sacking him was skewed towards risk, and that's exactly what has happened. Hindsight not required.

This…..in spades

 

[Otis Redding]

Ouch, you make a great point about trying to hold a 1-goal lead especially.

I said it before in my appraisal of Nuno, I think he's slow.

Slow doesn't necessarily mean bad, in the right situation taking time with stuff can be a bonus, but we're not in that situation. Stuff like yesterday's defensive subs and "Niakhate-gate" shows a bloke who's not really got his finger on the pulse, or who isn't working to make that happen.

Honestly, one of my biggest WTF moments was when it was reported Nuno didn't want a keeper until late in the window - did he research our team in any way, shape or form when he arrived? Literally 30k+ could have told him one was needed.

But I seriously dread to think who Marinakis would panic-appoint if Nuno went too. I wouldn't sack Nuno, I'd get him off the spliffs, give him a cold shower every morning and tell him to start working harder. His mind is several yards behind the pace, and doing stupid stuff like wearing the team out in pointless cup competitions proves that too.

I'm personally of the opinion that you put out your best side in every game Alf, especially as fans sold-out the CG (particularly many who are unable to acquire tickets for PL games) and travelled in their thousands to Blackpool and Bristol. Irrespective of who is responsible, our academy production-line has been pretty lamentable over the last few seasons (since, effectively, Brennan Johnson) providing almost nothing in terms of potential selection options for cup-ties against lower opposition. Hopefully, that is a situation that Craig Mullholland and Andy Reid (in his new role) can help address over the coming years, however well the first-team is doing or whoever the manager is.

 

[Haych]

Aina is back after the international break and I bet we start looking more of a threat again, it’s quite obvious Aina/Tavares suit how Nuno wants us to play as we both won more games and scored more goals with them in the team.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I'm personally of the opinion that you put out your best side in every game Alf, especially as fans sold-out the CG (particularly many who are unable to acquire tickets for PL games) and travelled in their thousands to Blackpool and Bristol. Irrespective of who is responsible, our academy production-line has been pretty lamentable over the last few seasons (since, effectively, Brennan Johnson) providing almost nothing in terms of potential selection options for cup-ties against lower opposition. Hopefully, that is a situation that Craig Mullholland and Andy Reid (in his new role) can help address over the coming years, however the first-team is doing or whoever the manager is.

Which is fair enough, I get why some people believe in that approach. Personally I think it has it's place but don't subscribe to it as a given and, even though Blackpool thrashed us 4-1 when Coops fielded a weaker side, that also seemed to keep players fresh enough to keep us up. Which is/was my preference.

I can respect the alternative approach, but I think it's hurt us this season tbh. There's a time and a place for it, and this season wasn't it for me.

 

[YellowBelly Red]

Cooper 0.91 ppg
Nuno 0.92 ppg

 

[Otis Redding]

Which is fair enough, I get why some people believe in that approach. Personally I think it has it's place but don't subscribe to it as a given and, even though Blackpool thrashed us 4-1 when Coops fielded a weaker side, that also seemed to keep players fresh enough to keep us up. Which is/was my preference.

I can respect the alternative approach, but I think it's hurt us this season tbh. There's a time and a place for it, and this season wasn't it for me.

I do take your point, but had we not been fu<ked-over by VAR, again, against Manchester United, Nuno's decision could have been justified. As it is, he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. Also, to repeat myself Alf, as a Cat 1 academy for the last few seasons, we should have produced at least a couple of decent graduates to help out with injury situations.

 

[Hector Salamanca]

Nope, if you look at run in, there’s only Tottenham away and Man City at home, that we should be concerned about. Our luck will change, Elanga learns how to score again, the law of averages sees our set piece stats to improve slightly, we start to get fair decisions from referees and we ban Gibbs-white from taking corners (last one might be a pirate dream)

I wouldn't be confident this team could defend a lead against under 7's never mind against other PL teams, and NES would likely make the wrong subs at the wrong time trying to defend a lead.

I'm also fed up hearing our luck will change, bad teams have bad luck and we are a bad team in the PL.

Agreed on MGW at corners.

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[Redemption]

last one might be a pirate dream

 

[Barry]

Looks like he's lost most on twitter

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[chaospunx]

Nope, if you look at run in, there’s only Tottenham away and Man City at home, that we should be concerned about. Our luck will change, Elanga learns how to score again, the law of averages sees our set piece stats to improve slightly, we start to get fair decisions from referees and we ban Gibbs-white from taking corners (last one might be a pirate dream)

Bizzarly I can see us beating spurs and City and losing the rest would be so f***ing forest

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Bizzarly I can see us beating spurs and City and losing the rest would be so f***ing forest

Probably with a new manager at the helm, and a victory message of "the best is yet to come!" from Marinakis

 

[thereds66]

Looks like he's lost most on twitter

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Those fickle feckers don’t have a clue, these are the same people who were begging for Cooper to be gone, and moaning at those fans who didn’t want Cooper gone saying “we all need to give Nuno time now”, they jump from one opinion to another every 5 minutes

 

[thereds66]

As much as I think Nuno hasn’t helped himself over the last few weeks, one thing you have to say is that yesterday was the first game in a long time that Nuno hasn’t had a controversial VAR/ ref decision go against him, and he got a draw away

 

[Matt]

As much as I think Nuno hasn’t helped himself over the last few weeks, one thing you have to say is that yesterday was the first game in a long time that Nuno hasn’t had a controversial VAR/ ref decision go against him, and he got a draw away

Got a draw away, dominated 80% of the game and made one of the teams who have the ‘home advantage’ (as much of a myth as that may or may not be) look really poor.

The three goal line clearances (four if you count the Murillo attempt) are testament to the system he’s set up being successful. I thought it was a bit bizarre how much space Barkley was getting early on but I suspect that was a ploy to try and get MGW higher up the pitch. Once MGW started getting the ball, Barkleys influence disappeared as he had to worry about what was happening defensively.

I just think he should have started CHO so he had Origi as an option or put Ribiero on rather than go 3 at the back. They looked so tired, we could have got the second. That being said, our luck was clearly against us second half so maybe it was with that in mind.

Who knows.

 

['mist rollin in']

Those fickle feckers don’t have a clue, these are the same people who were begging for Cooper to be gone, and moaning at those fans who didn’t want Cooper gone saying “we all need to give Nuno time now”, they jump from one opinion to another every 5 minutes

Brummie Tricky being one of the most bizarre people I've ever come across on Twitter. I think he's a professional troll and he's very good at it

 

[Otis Redding]

Looks like he's lost most on twitter

Is that a negative or a positive for him, given, or so I'm led to believe, how toxic that place can be even at the best of times?

 

[Colbackstreet Boys]

We all know Marinakis' temperament. I think if we fail to beat at least one of Palace, Fulham or Wolves at home then he'll be gone.

Nuno doesn't have the fans acting as a bit of a guardian angel like Steve did. He is totally exposed to his own increasingly poor record here and I can absolutely foresee a Leeds type situation with another change with 7/8 to go.

I don't even know what I want anymore. It's all so exhausting.

When you strip it all back though, until Marinakis realises that all the roads of our many issues lead back to his refusal to design, implement and commit to a strategy, then it'll be back to the Championship or worse for another quarter century eventually.

 

[Monkman]

I think it's highly unlikely EM will sack Nuno before the end of the season unless there is someone good, or at least high profile and glamorous, willing to take over - which is even more unlikely.