Nuno Albertino Varela Tavares

[Bobby The Brain]

In a 3-4-1-2 then I agree. Your wing backs either go too far forward and you're far too susceptible on the flanks for the CM's to cover, and if they drop too deep then you're just penned in on the edge of your own box and the CMs just end up sat protecting.

But in a 4-2-3-1 it'd be a bit different. In defensive third it would condense into a 4-5-1, with Taveres, Elanga and MGW all capable of doing the defensive work that someone like Johnson is not.

And going forward, it's far more fluid than the 3-4-1-2, and so like I put a couple of posts up, Danilo/Yates can be more dynamic as Aina/Serge/Montiel can tuck in and cover.

4-2-3-1 in that set up is far more fluid than 3-4-1-2, more adaptable to certain phases of the game in that set-up and more adaptable player wise to shift formation if you find yourself needing to play slightly differently.

We didn't play 4-2-3-1 once from the kick-off last season. It's something I think we should consider, especially for games we're expected to control, like games vs Sheff Utd at home. We switched to the 4-2-3-1 with 20 minutes to go and Sheff Utd never got a look in after that. Had we not made the change we probably wouldn't have won the game and might even have lost it.

All fair points, just don’t think Cooper wants to play a 4.

When he says we need to be better when we have the ball I don’t think he means having drastically more possession, more that we need to do better in those moments when we do.

Cooper plays counter attack football, in order to do that you have to sit deep and bring the opposition towards your goal to create the space in behind to exploit. The 3/5 at the back allows us to do this without getting stretched in those moments where we turn the ball over.

If we look at the players we’ve signed/been linked with, everything points to this system. You ideally need pacy wide CB’s with decent distribution, Murillo looks to fit the bill, gives us depth at left CB too which is needed when taking Niakhate’s injury record so far.

We also need outlets to carry the ball quickly up the pitch following the turnover. Tavares fits the mould, yes defensively he doesn’t look great but then, if he could defend well and do what we see he can do going forward, he’d be playing for PSG/Real Madrid, not us!

Elanga’s an interesting one. We need pace to make it work, which BJ has provided in spades, however, one thing the young Swede may have over Brennan is flexibility. Not sure I can remember Johnson playing from the left with any kind of regularity and/or success. Elanga’s already shown he can do that role and, as a right footer it’s a fair bet he can be effective from the right as well. If a full back has him in his pocket, we can switch the focus of our attack.

So in conclusion - not convinced Cooper want’s to dominate the midfield, you can even make an argument it’s against what he’s trying to achieve (as mad as that sounds) more he want’s players in there better at shielding and giving it to a teammate who can play. If we can get a ‘stopper’ who also has vision/passing range (Sangare?) then even better.

 

[The Frog]

In a 3-4-1-2 then I agree. Your wing backs either go too far forward and you're far too susceptible on the flanks for the CM's to cover, and if they drop too deep then you're just penned in on the edge of your own box and the CMs just end up sat protecting.

But in a 4-2-3-1 it'd be a bit different. In defensive third it would condense into a 4-5-1, with Taveres, Elanga and MGW all capable of doing the defensive work that someone like Johnson is not.

And going forward, it's far more fluid than the 3-4-1-2, and so like I put a couple of posts up, Danilo/Yates can be more dynamic as Aina/Serge/Montiel can tuck in and cover.

4-2-3-1 in that set up is far more fluid than 3-4-1-2, more adaptable to certain phases of the game in that set-up and more adaptable player wise to shift formation if you find yourself needing to play slightly differently.

We didn't play 4-2-3-1 once from the kick-off last season. It's something I think we should consider, especially for games we're expected to control, like games vs Sheff Utd at home. We switched to the 4-2-3-1 with 20 minutes to go and Sheff Utd never got a look in after that. Had we not made the change we probably wouldn't have won the game and might even have lost it.

I’ve no complaints about your thinking as I personally dislike us shoehorning a 3 at the back when we don’t have 3 CBs good enough or the attacking WBs needed for it.

However, my issue is all our midfielders are different variations of the same box-to-box player that look more comfortable going forward. This could all change though with Dominguez and/or Sangare and possibly Santos

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

All fair points, just don’t think Cooper wants to play a 4.

When he says we need to be better when we have the ball I don’t think he means having drastically more possession, more that we need to do better in those moments when we do.

Cooper plays counter attack football, in order to do that you have to sit deep and bring the opposition towards your goal to create the space in behind to exploit. The 3/5 at the back allows us to do this without getting stretched in those moments where we turn the ball over.

If we look at the players we’ve signed/been linked with, everything points to this system. You ideally need pacy wide CB’s with decent distribution, Murillo looks to fit the bill, gives us depth at left CB too which is needed when taking Niakhate’s injury record so far.

We also need outlets to carry the ball quickly up the pitch following the turnover. Tavares fits the mould, yes defensively he doesn’t look great but then, if he could defend well and do what we see he can do going forward, he’d be playing for PSG/Real Madrid, not us!

Elanga’s an interesting one. We need pace to make it work, which BJ has provided in spades, however, one thing the young Swede may have over Brennan is flexibility. Not sure I can remember Johnson playing from the left with any kind of regularity and/or success. Elanga’s already shown he can do that role and, as a right footer it’s a fair bet he can be effective from the right as well. If a full back has him in his pocket, we can switch the focus of our attack.

So in conclusion - not convinced Cooper want’s to dominate the midfield, you can even make an argument it’s against what he’s trying to achieve (as mad as that sounds) more he want’s players in there better at shielding and giving it to a teammate who can play. If we can get a ‘stopper’ who also has vision/passing range (Sangare?) then even better.

Yeah I agree, the biggest drawback to the 4-2-3-1 is that it's against Cooper's favoured set-up.

I do think at this level we need to be more flexible though. That final 20 minutes vs Sheff Utd should have been an eye-opener that 4-2-3-1 can be an option from the start rather than a reactionary one. Not for every game, just some.

 

[The Frog]

not convinced Cooper want’s to dominate the midfield, you can even make an argument it’s against what he’s trying to achieve (as mad as that sounds) more he want’s players in there better at shielding and giving it to a teammate who can play.

Great post but, as mentioned above, the anomaly for me is the midfielders we have bought in.

Right now they have to play as a 3 as there is no balance in a 2. So much so we have had to lose a forward to fit Danilo in to make it 3-5-1-1.

To really progress we need to find the right balance at CB and CM or we will forever be backs against the wall.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

Yeah I agree, the biggest drawback to the 4-2-3-1 is that it's against Cooper's favoured set-up.

I do think at this level we need to be more flexible though. That final 20 minutes vs Sheff Utd should have been an eye-opener that 4-2-3-1 can be an option from the start rather than a reactionary one. Not for every game, just some.

Agree with flexibility being important and I definitely think the 5 has a shelf life. If we have a great season or 2 we will create the issue of teams ’sitting in’ and then the whole counter attack theory comes unstuck - that’s when we need to change our philosophy, potentially to a 4.

The Sheff Utd game is an interesting example, don’t forget we went ahead playing the 5. Yes we did revert to the 4 near the end but I think we have to acknowledge the opposition had dropped deep to try to hang on and it became a horses for corses type deal.

Cooper did change it up last year and started with a 4 around mid season but I get the feeling this was through firmly gritted teeth. He was running out of options and the personnel available just couldn’t make the 5 work. Players came back from injury and he went back to the favoured 5 (with the box midfield tweak) for the run in.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

Great post but, as mentioned above, the anomaly for me is the midfielders we have bought in.

Right now they have to play as a 3 as there is no balance in a 2. So much so we have had to lose a forward to fit Danilo in to make it 3-5-1-1.

To really progress we need to find the right balance at CB and CM or we will forever be backs against the wall.

Agree with your last sentence 100%.

I’m really hoping this is where Murillo shines, not just winning the ball back but having the composure and ability to spring the counter rather than lumping it forward aimlessly or smashing it into the stands (no offence to messers Worral/Mckenna).

 

[Collymore!]

I really haven’t a clue what Steve’s starting XI will be with the new recruits - glad I’m not him!

Maybe Serge wants to go to Saudi?

Wasn’t Boly linked with Saudi?

Maybe Aina’s injury is longer than 336 hours?

Saudi can purchase our players for another 2/3 weeks I think, so potentially why we haven’t moved people out to them yet?

 

[Gyros Peter]

Think Kouyate was the other one with Saudi links.

 

[Farmer Jack]

I know it's one game, but all I can think of when I see this guy's name is him getting subbed off after half an hour in our Cup victory over Arsenal

 

[footywithuti]

Afternoon everyone, hope you’re well. Here’s everything you need to know about Nuno Tavares in under 3 minutes for those interested. While there’s plenty of elements to his game that warrant criticism, there’s a lot to like too. Let me know what you make of it and feel free to ask me any questions, cheers!

 

[Farmer Jack]

Think Kouyate was the other one with Saudi links.

I think all of us have been linked with Saudi at this point.

 

[Ashley]

I think all of us have been linked with Saudi at this point.

Football Insider EXCLUSIVE! LTLF Forum Member linked with SENSATIONAL MOVE to Saudi Arabia!
By Wayne Veysey

Football Insider sources can exclusively reveal that Saudi Arabian giants Al Cansignanybody have agreed a lucrative deal with LTLF for forum member Farmer Jack.

LTLF will receive a fee of £23.4m and an unlimited stock of "The best of Jonjo Shelvey" DVDs for Farmer Jack's services.

Farmer Jack is expected to arrive for his medical sometime this weekend. The Saudi club turned to Farmer Jack after missing out on Derby County striker Martyn Waghorn, who missed his flight after being distracted by a nearby McDonald's restaurant from which he has yet to emerge.

 

[Red In Scotland]

Football Insider EXCLUSIVE! LTLF Forum Member linked with SENSATIONAL MOVE to Saudi Arabia!
By Wayne Veysey

Football Insider sources can exclusively reveal that Saudi Arabian giants Al Cansignanybody have agreed a lucrative deal with LTLF for forum member Farmer Jack.

LTLF will receive a fee of £23.4m and an unlimited stock of "The best of Jonjo Shelvey" DVDs for Farmer Jack's services.

Farmer Jack is expected to arrive for his medical sometime this weekend. The Saudi club turned to Farmer Jack after missing out on Derby County striker Martyn Waghorn, who missed his flight after being distracted by a nearby McDonald's restaurant from which he has yet to emerge.

"Farmer Jack turns down Saudi move over concerns to do with his private life."

 

[Major Oak Morgan]

Pretty happy with deal as reported. Low risk. Would’ve preferred a nailed on first choice LWB, which I’m not sure Nuno or Ola are. Healthy for them to be competing though

 

[Notcher]

Yes that was the better example He'll just be Vlach.

He'll be known as WIFI as his name looks my password to it

 

[Gedling Reds]

Very little chance Cooper plays a striker, two advanced wingers and MGW together imo

 

[Omar Devone Little]

Very little chance Cooper plays a striker, two advanced wingers and MGW together imo

More chance of Harry Arter winning player of the year.

 

[andover red]

Far from convinced by what I've seen so far, but I pay no attention to what the Arsenal fans say. Typical entitled 'big cub' fans who are never happy.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[IdiotTricky]

Agree with flexibility ...

I broadly agree with this and enjoy your tactical posts in general. But, sometimes, I think we sometimes become too wedded to formations and not systems, or the players within them.

There was a time when 3-5-2 would swamp the midfield, but would suffer against a side playing wide with two wide players. Similarly, for a time, a 4-2-3-1 absolutely dominated against opponents with two in midfield and then came Conte with the 3-4-3.

Now we have a situation where fullbacks, traditionally offering supporting width, or attacking width outside inverting wingers, are being asked to move inside to support build-up rather than simple overlaps and - in the case of the Blunts a few seasons ago - central defenders playing wide outside those fullbacks. Similarly, centre backs can be asked to pass or run beyond the opponent's press.

I'm not making any point, as such, and I don't know what Cooper's aims are. But I think tactical flexibility is becoming increasingly key for defenders and, given that we've been able to swap between 2 or 3 systems during the past two seasons plus the signings we appear to be targeting, gives me hope that he knows what he's doing.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

I broadly agree with this and enjoy your tactical posts in general. But, sometimes, I think we sometimes become too wedded to formations and not systems, or the players within them.

There was a time when 3-5-2 would swamp the midfield, but would suffer against a side playing wide with two wide players. Similarly, for a time, a 4-2-3-1 absolutely dominated against opponents with two in midfield and then came Conte with the 3-4-3.

Now we have a situation where fullbacks, traditionally offering supporting width, or attacking width outside inverting wingers, are being asked to move inside to support build-up rather than simple overlaps and - in the case of the Blunts a few seasons ago - central defenders playing wide outside those fullbacks. Similarly, centre backs can be asked to pass or run beyond the opponent's press.

I'm not making any point, as such, and I don't know what Cooper's aims are. But I think tactical flexibility is becoming increasingly key for defenders and, given that we've been able to swap between 2 or 3 systems during the past two seasons plus the signings we appear to be targeting, gives me hope that he knows what he's doing.

Yeah can’t argue with that.

Can’t be sure (only on the radio) but from the commentary it sounds like Cooper‘s trialing a 5 at the back that reverts to a 4 in possession tonight, with Montiel joining the midfield . Backs up your point above.

 

[The Frog]

Ultimately you should play the formation that suits the players the most. In the transfer windows you have to support the manager accordingly to get to their favoured approach. The key is then trying not to rip that up when a new manager comes in.

We did that in the championship but it’s another ball game in the prem. Even this window we still don’t (we may have with new arrivals) the right balance to play the system Cooper really wants

 

[IdiotTricky]

Yeah can’t argue with that.

Can’t be sure (only on the radio) but from the commentary it sounds like Cooper‘s trialing a 5 at the back that reverts to a 4 in possession tonight, with Montiel joining the midfield . Backs up your point above.

I've only just joined after a stoppage. Does that mean Montiel is playing outside Serge?

 

[IdiotTricky]

Ultimately you should play the formation that suits the players the most. In the transfer windows you have to support the manager accordingly to get to their favoured approach. The key is then trying not to rip that up when a new manager comes in.

We did that in the championship but it’s another ball game in the prem. Even this window we still don’t (we may have with new arrivals) the right balance to play the system Cooper really wants

Lol, we did that in the Championship in spades!

 

[Bobby The Brain]

I've only just joined after a stoppage. Does that mean Montiel is playing outside Serge?

Yeah, when out of possession that’s the shape according to Colin. Pushes ahead of him and Serge goes wide when we have the ball.

All based on a couple of comments though.

 

[Ashley]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1697344380506349717