Nottingham Forest Supporters Trust (NFST)

[Carlos]

I pm Barry

 

[Sabri Natenagewitch]

As you know there there are 2 Woolsthorpes near Grantham.......Isaac's was the one nearest to Colsterworth

Odd that you mention Colsterworth, my gran lived there and it is her bloody fault I support Forest, she was a season ticket holder and I would stay over on a Friday night and go to the game with her in her husbands mark 1 Escort, it had a fake fur back seat cover. I took my daughters over the other week and we walked past where he used to park his car ( side lane to the left of the church). Lovely memories, I always feel attached to the place, maybe I will end up there one day.

 

[Strummer]

Odd that you mention Colsterworth, my gran lived there and it is her bloody fault I support Forest, she was a season ticket holder and I would stay over on a Friday night and go to the game with her in her husbands mark 1 Escort, it had a fake fur back seat cover. I took my daughters over the other week and we walked past where he used to park his car ( side lane to the left of the church). Lovely memories, I always feel attached to the place, maybe I will end up there one day.

This is the sort of good story that explains how we all got addicted to Forest in the first place.

I got dragged to the WFCG by my Uncle in 1976, as he "thought I'd enjoy it".

Well, he was right.

The love affair has waxed and waned at times, but that love is still there, to this day, forty years later.

 

[Sabri Natenagewitch]

This is the sort of good story that explains how we all got addicted to Forest in the first place.

I got dragged to the WFCG by my Uncle in 1976, as he "thought I'd enjoy it".

Well, he was right.

The love affair has waxed and waned at times, but that love is still there, to this day, forty years later.

The first time you walk out and see the pitch, you'll never see grass as green as that for the rest of your life.

 

[Erik]

You can, particularly as we're calling for NFST to be more transparent.

I wasn't elected. I created the original version of this website and StuC set up and still maintains this forum. We chose long-term members Winnits and Col (RIP) as moderators and a few years later the four of us invited Flagman to join us. In turn, Winnits and Col have moved onto other things (the celery afterlife, in the case of Col) so we asked Chriscl to take some of the strain.

The difference between us and NFST is that as a privately run enterprise we're under no obligation to 'elect' moderators and we could, if we wanted to, enforce any 'agenda' we wanted - that's our prerogative. Our site, our rules. However, the other difference is that we're not trying exert any direct influence over the club or put forward any kind of manifesto on behalf of our membership. When I say LTLF Forum is more representative than the NFST, it is not because we have an agenda. Precisely the opposite, in fact: you can come onto the forum and read a 100 different views from a 100 different people, none of which will be put forward to the club in any official form and none of which have come from the moderating team (except in our own posts, of course).

Finally, you point out that a year or so ago most posters were defending Fawaz. Wasn't that the case on Twitter and other forums too? If it's not the case any more that is because the consensus has shifted across the whole fan base, not because anyone at LTLF has decided it is so.

You might want to add that this forum is run so that you don't have to make a contribution towards running costs in order to have a say.

It is, in essence, free to use.

What was that contribution the Supporters Trust wanted so they can speak for us?

 

[QUARKSOUP]

For the record, I don't think anything is gained by getting adversarial about it. Forums are free and a great tool for communication. A trust gives an organisational structure and a framework for direct action.

Some interesting reading here on the 'German model' from the Supporters Direct site- a summary of '50 +1' which is fundamental to their system. http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/case-studies/the-german-model-explained

...and a beautifully Utopian flow chart. Fans indirectly appointing the managerial board of the limited company (the club) with a 51% vote majority as a safety net.

I also found the following passage interesting:

Scrutiny of economic data is vital to the licensing system, and aims to reduce overspending (sadly an ever-present threat in football) by forcing all clubs to follow a set planning procedure, and to apply for a license before every season commences. Essentially, clubs must be financially accountable. A series of documents have to be produced, covering a number of areas: assets; receivables; cash and bank balances; liabilities and provisions; current overdraft facilities; loan commitments, projected and current profit/loss statements; cash inflows and outflows.

The submitted documents are assessed by the DFL, which then produces an economic viability rating for the club, which in turn informs the decision by the Licensing Committee whether or not to approve the application.


I wasn't aware of this, but they have a version of FFP that actually works. If I've understood it correctly every club needs to apply for a 'license' before the beginning of the season. The decision is based on the 'economic viability rating' from the published accounts. In other words, if your house isn't in order you are deemed unfit to participate. Pro active prevention always better than retroactive punishment. The result? Successive operating profits between 2010-2014.

 

[Flaggers]

I'm one of "the other two" :/ :weep:

 

[Wes' Organ]

I'm one of "the other two" :/ :weep:

Best of the daft 'uns.

 

[Strummer]

For the record, I don't think anything is gained by getting adversarial about it. Forums are free and a great tool for communication. A trust gives an organisational structure and a framework for direct action.

Some interesting reading here on the 'German model' from the Supporters Direct site- a summary of '50 +1' which is fundamental to their system. http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/case-studies/the-german-model-explained

...and a beautifully Utopian flow chart. Fans indirectly appointing the managerial board of the limited company (the club) with a 51% vote majority as a safety net.

I also found the following passage interesting:

Scrutiny of economic data is vital to the licensing system, and aims to reduce overspending (sadly an ever-present threat in football) by forcing all clubs to follow a set planning procedure, and to apply for a license before every season commences. Essentially, clubs must be financially accountable. A series of documents have to be produced, covering a number of areas: assets; receivables; cash and bank balances; liabilities and provisions; current overdraft facilities; loan commitments, projected and current profit/loss statements; cash inflows and outflows.

The submitted documents are assessed by the DFL, which then produces an economic viability rating for the club, which in turn informs the decision by the Licensing Committee whether or not to approve the application.


I wasn't aware of this, but they have a version of FFP that actually works. If I've understood it correctly every club needs to apply for a 'license' before the beginning of the season. The decision is based on the 'economic viability rating' from the published accounts. In other words, if your house isn't in order you are deemed unfit to participate. Pro active prevention always better than retroactive punishment. The result? Successive operating profits between 2010-2014.

You have understood it quite correctly.

Every German club must present to the DFB not only detailed accounts, but also a business plan that sets out their budget, revenue target and projected spending, every season.

This is to prevent German clubs going bust.

Several clubs who've previously been in the Bundesliga have sunk to the third-tier (hello, Hansa Rostock) but for on-pitch reasons, not off-pitch ones.

The DFB goes as far as it can to ensure clubs can survive, even in a league dominated by the likes of FC Bayern, who's commercial income is enormous compared to the rest of the league.

 

[Alexandro Garibaldi]

This is to prevent German clubs going bust.

How is television rights income distributed in Germany, out of interest?

 

[Strummer]

How is television rights income distributed in Germany, out of interest?

Have a read of this:

http://bundesligafanatic.com/the-bundesliga-tv-rights-and-their-place-in-europe/

As it explains better than I could; the page is from 2013 but covers (i believe) the agreement up to the end of this current season.

Tl;dr - the Bundesliga model is substantially different....

 

[BryanRoy]

 

[Barry]

Thanks for the reply. You are right this is a platform for fans to voice their opinion. It is not an elected fan group. The moderators dictate the rules, they have the power to edit, delete posts and ultimately ban someone without consultation. A group such as the trust can’t do that. They are an organisation who vote and elect a group of people to reflect the majority view. This forum no more represents the fans opinion than twitter or the other forums that are available. You might like to think it does but it doesn’t. It is a small group of people that participate on a daily basis but the majority of fans of the club do not.

Re Fawaz - A large number of supporters on twitter as well as other forums had given up on him well over a year ago and were openly talking about the damage he was doing to the club. On here it was the minority, the majority of regular posters were still beating the Fawaz drum and seemed to take some delight in ridiculing the opinion of fans who had given up on him. Now the loud voices or heavy posters on this forum have finally caught up with the majority and it is now deemed okay to attack him. You say there is no agenda… I think you are right, there is no considered agenda but if you get a group of say around 10 people who post the same views constantly on a daily basis, and that group of people have posts that total between 50 and 30 thousand you can’t tell me that that is not setting a tone and a direction. It is, it does and it influences other people. So don’t try and make out that one person’s opinion carries the same weight. That is not the reality.

 

[Dirk Furtull]

Thanks for the reply. You are right this is a platform for fans to voice their opinion. It is not an elected fan group. The moderators dictate the rules, they have the power to edit, delete posts and ultimately ban someone without consultation. A group such as the trust can’t do that. They are an organisation who vote and elect a group of people to reflect the majority view. This forum no more represents the fans opinion than twitter or the other forums that are available. You might like to think it does but it doesn’t. It is a small group of people that participate on a daily basis but the majority of fans of the club do not.

Re Fawaz - A large number of supporters on twitter as well as other forums had given up on him well over a year ago and were openly talking about the damage he was doing to the club. On here it was the minority, the majority of regular posters were still beating the Fawaz drum and seemed to take some delight in ridiculing the opinion of fans who had given up on him. Now the loud voices or heavy posters on this forum have finally caught up with the majority and it is now deemed okay to attack him. You say there is no agenda… I think you are right, there is no considered agenda but if you get a group of say around 10 people who post the same views constantly on a daily basis, and that group of people have posts that total between 50 and 30 thousand you can’t tell me that that is not setting a tone and a direction. It is, it does and it influences other people. So don’t try and make out that one person’s opinion carries the same weight. That is not the reality.

What do you actually want? You've described how a forum works, people post and others reply or not as the case may be. As far as I can tell the mods don't edit posts so I'm not sure where that idea comes from. The way they operate has been clearly stated and no one should have too much of a problem with that in my view.

It's up to you if you come onto this forum, no one makes you.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

 

[Viktor]

Winnits used to steal posts but he's gone now. Some reckon he tried to steal his own post and then he spontaneously combusted.


#Samuel4Mod #MakeLTLFGreatAgain

 

[Flaggers]

The smell of burning martyr is strong...

 

[Flaggers]

The moderators dictate the rules, they have the power to edit, delete posts and ultimately ban someone without consultation.

.

We can, but most importantly, we don't, in the sense that you are writing.

Posts will only be edited or removed if their content crosses the line of libel, downright offence and the like.

People who post in such a way that banning is the solution HAVE GOT THEMSELVES BANNED. All the moderators do is press the button.

There exists a forum for the moderators on here.

You'd be surprised at how much discussion goes on about the day to day overseeing of this place, and about the people who put themselves on the radar.

To suggest - as you have done - that the moderators and admins set the tone is wholly incorrect and unworthy of you.

To suggest that we "dictate the rules" is true only in the sense of the occasional "moderator hat on" post, and not in the sense that you are implying.

 

[valspoodle]

Interesting how Mr Fox manages to criticise the forum he's using to freely express his views, because, apparently the mods edit the freely expressed views!

Poor old Mr Fox, he's caught the Fawaz bug.

 

[Strummer]

Interesting how Mr Fox manages to criticise the forum he's using to freely express his views, because, apparently the mods edit the freely expressed views!

Poor old Mr Fox, he's caught the Fawaz bug.

Nail on head VP.

 

[Viktor]

Boom! Can't wait to be a mod so I can copy and paste that everywhere.

#Samuel4Mod #MakeLTLFGreatAgain

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

Mods forum thread numbers ....

1) Can we ban Mr. Fox
2) How to undermine NFST
3) Editing posts for comedic affect
4) 101 reasons Samuel can not be a mod
5) Andy, our saviour and Lord of LTLF
6) need new squirrel pictures


#ITK

 

[Barry]

Best thing about it is the folk who have 20k plus posts dont actually talk Forest that much...

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Best thing about it is the folk who have 20k plus posts dont actually talk Forest that much...

 

[Flaggers]

Mods forum thread numbers ....

1) Can we ban Mr. Fox
2) How to undermine NFST
3) Editing posts for comedic affect
4) 101 reasons Samuel can not be a mod
5) Andy, our saviour and Lord of LTLF
6) need new squirrel pictures


#ITK

How did he get access?!

 

[Strummer]

How did he get access?!

He's got the agenda for the next Moderators' meeting there Flaggers - have we been hacked???