Mark Warburton Sacked

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Top ten Alf.

An assertive. all round manager with a Championship promotion on his CV also helps dramatically.

What I've been saying for years mate

 

[BryanRoy]

I think the sacking was harsh and still maintain he should've got this season at least. But at the same time I've been heartened by what I've seen since Karanka came in. He doesn't stand for any nonsense and has identified in a month the weak areas of the side and taken positive action to improve them.

There's so much to be positive about despite the fact we sacked yet another manager.

That's for sure mate.

If anything we needed a strong character like AK now to give us this crucial and one last shake-up to get rid of the previous regime as much as possible.

We have a sound base now to push forward and if we dragged things out and let the status quo remain we could be in danger of losing some of our talented players and those players who want to be ambitious with us but now they will get better players to work with sooner.

We now know how serious the hierarchy of the club are to push this club forwards not only with off the field stuff which is massive but now they ready to make us serious promotion contenders.

 

[Strummer]

It is what it is.

What other catch phrases will ex managers be known for?

“If they hadn’t scored two goals, we’d have won one-nil”.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

"Mmmmmmmmmm............you can Schmell the Hishtory duck!"

 

[Ravi]

That's for sure mate.

If anything we needed a strong character like AK now to give us this crucial and one last shake-up to get rid of the previous regime as much as possible.

We have a sound base now to push forward and if we dragged things out and let the status quo remain we could be in danger of losing some of our talented players and those players who want to be ambitious with us but now they will get better players to work with sooner.

We now know how serious the hierarchy of the club are to push this club forwards not only with off the field stuff which is massive but now they ready to make us serious promotion contenders.

Excellent summary Bryan.

 

[Collymore!]

It might be genuine, but it’s not a big surprise is it? He’s a development coach, and so mostly he’s going to be given jobs either at smaller clubs or at bigger clubs where consolidation is the brief. Those latter jobs aren’t going to be long term, because at some point those clubs will want to push on again.

Nope, not a surprise. I really just wanted to say that I think he's genuine and this is somewhat accurate of his problems.

My post was a little against Percy too, the man's lost his job no need to slag him off again for largely unsubstantiated things.

I think the thing that gets me in this instance is:

1. MW's comments largely backed up by him over six months, EM and NR.
2. Percy (or "news"paper) say "Yeah, or he could win lol"
3. Which leads to the whole narrative changing to 'MW should have won more/MW didn't win'. Twitter continues to be vile and we continue with the short term vision.

As always, I'm not particularly advocating for MW, merely that we should stick with a manager one day, and hopefully that is now AK.

 

[puds1970]

So what an ex manager says on the radio is gospel truth now is it?

One thing that stood out about MW was he liked his excuses...

‘the kind of centre back we want would cost £25m so we can’t get one, we looked at 45 keepers but the only one we could get was injured, players make mistakes, small margins, young players are going to make mistakes, plan A, the reason the defending is so utterly clueless is due to small margins and players making mistakes, Plan A, young players, small margins, clueless defending is because young players are going to make mistakes, plan A, small margins...

Now apparently the club didn’t give him clarity about what was expected. Maybe there’s some truth in that, maybe there isn’t, but it is what happens in football. Objectives change. At least it gives him another excuse to add to his list.

Poor Mr Warburton.

The fact he’s come on the radio and said what he said tells me it’s the truth. It doesn’t have to be the “gospel of truth” Ravi.
As I have said it would be good if the club came out and clarified that MW knew what is objectives were from the start. We made it clear to him.
This has been the single biggest claim of the ones who criticised his sacking.
Again in his defence why the ridiculous comment about wanting a £25m centre half?. What has that got to do with MW?. Did he come out and criticise the clubs backing transfer wise?.
Surely even someone such as yourself who wanted rid can see that if there was more clarity about the expectations about league positions and time to get you from A to B could make a difference in what caliber of player you need to do such a job. Not to mention probably sacrificing the youth a little over a player that is ready now.
At the end of the day he’s gone, and has had his say. And if the club feel the need to respond they will, if not that’s up to them.
At least we now know what the aim of the heirachy is and we now apparently have the structure in place to deliver it so the pressure is all on AK.
Good luck.

 

[Thomas]

Man who cares, Mr. Breadman is out a job but his pockets are filled. He’ll do fine at his next job.

 

[Ravi]

Nope, not a surprise. I really just wanted to say that I think he's genuine and this is somewhat accurate of his problems.

My post was a little against Percy too, the man's lost his job no need to slag him off again for largely unsubstantiated things.

I think the thing that gets me in this instance is:

1. MW's comments largely backed up by him over six months, EM and NR.
2. Percy (or "news"paper) say "Yeah, or he could win lol"
3. Which leads to the whole narrative changing to 'MW should have won more/MW didn't win'. Twitter continues to be vile and we continue with the short term vision.

As always, I'm not particularly advocating for MW, merely that we should stick with a manager one day, and hopefully that is now AK.

AK will be here longer if he is achieving what is expected, although I agree, if ever we are going to ‘stick with’ a manager it should be him.

For me, the notion of ‘sticking with’ a manager is an anachronism. It’s a throw back to a time when managers ran the football club from top to bottom. Clubs operate in a different way now. And how long should a club stick with a manager for? Everyone will have a different opinion. Fans will base their opinion on things like results, how the team is playing and what the manager says, but ultimately the people at the club are the only ones who have access to the full picture and so are best placed to make a decision.

You could argue it’s short termist compared to the past, and most aspects of life are now, or maybe it’s because football is more intensely competitive than ever before and clubs realise it’s too much of a gamble to put all their eggs into one basket.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Man who cares, Mr. Breadman is out a job but his pockets are filled. He’ll do fine at his next job.

Because the methodology behind it could mean we go to shitsville.

It could also mean we get promoted & thrive, but it's not about Warbs, it's about "did the owners make a change to push for promotion THIS season?" becayse if they did they can't judge football.

If however it's a pre-cursor to next season, and they just wanted someone with a more aligned vision then fair enough.

All these discusions aren't really about warbs, they're about how we're operating and the fact that there is still a lot of doubt is significant, as it won't take much for that spark to become a raging fire with the wrong set of results.

 

[Ravi]

The fact he’s come on the radio and said what he said tells me it’s the truth. It doesn’t have to be the “gospel of truth” Ravi.
As I have said it would be good if the club came out and clarified that MW knew what is objectives were from the start. We made it clear to him.
This has been the single biggest claim of the ones who criticised his sacking.
Again in his defence why the ridiculous comment about wanting a £25m centre half?. What has that got to do with MW?. Did he come out and criticise the clubs backing transfer wise?.
Surely even someone such as yourself who wanted rid can see that if there was more clarity about the expectations about league positions and time to get you from A to B could make a difference in what caliber of player you need to do such a job. Not to mention probably sacrificing the youth a little over a player that is ready now.
At the end of the day he’s gone, and has had his say. And if the club feel the need to respond they will, if not that’s up to them.
At least we now know what the aim of the heirachy is and we now apparently have the structure in place to deliver it so the pressure is all on AK.
Good luck.

You believe him, fair enough. Maybe he is being genuine, as I said, although I doubt he was told that losing more than half of his games and consistently shipping soft goals was acceptable.

I don’t see any need for the club to respond to what he has said.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

You believe him, fair enough. Maybe he is being genuine, as I said, although I doubt he was told that losing more than half of his games and consistently shipping soft goals was acceptable.

I don’t see any need for the club to respond to what he has said.

I'd say the very fact that so many doubts remain is good enough reason.

Whether folk are questioning rightly or wrongly the club are relying on results to change their perception, as opposed to changing it themselves and being prepared for results to go either good or bad.

We're now relying on good results to keep everyone on board. A statement telling us a bit about the disparity & disagreements with Warbs vision, & how AK suited better will at least keep onside fans that simply feel as if they've been betrayed.

Whether that's all right or wrong is irrelevant, it's just something which I think helps protect against a shite season, and keeps folk on board for next year.

it amazes me that an organisation which can spend millions on players can't release a simple statement. You could chuck numerous posters on here a few quid and they'd wang one up within minutes.

 

[stockers]

I think the sacking was harsh and still maintain he should've got this season at least. But at the same time I've been heartened by what I've seen since Karanka came in. He doesn't stand for any nonsense and has identified in a month the weak areas of the side and taken positive action to improve them.

There's so much to be positive about despite the fact we sacked yet another manager.

Sorry i don't get it, those last performances were shit and Karanka has to take some of the blame for them. If i was in the team on Tuesday and saw Darikwa on the team sheet ahead of LIchaj i'd be questioning the manager big time.. I know that as Forest fans we have to try and put a positive spin on things but this has been a pretty unimpressive start.. The only good things i'd say about most of the signings is that they are loans so at least they shouldn't cost too much and still don't really have a left back. A step in the right direction would be to give Eric the captains arm band rather than not playing him!

 

[Ravi]

I'd say the very fact that so many doubts remain is good enough reason.

Whether folk are questioning rightly or wrongly the club are relying on results to change their perception, as opposed to changing it themselves and being prepared for results to go either good or bad.

We're now relying on good results to keep everyone on board. A statement telling us a bit about the disparity & disagreements with Warbs vision, & how AK suited better will at least keep onside fans that simply feel as if they've been betrayed.

Whether that's all right or wrong is irrelevant, it's just something which I think helps protect against a shite season, and keeps folk on board for next year.

it amazes me that an organisation which can spend millions on players can't release a simple statement. You could chuck numerous posters on here a few quid and they'd wang one up within minutes.

This is the legacy of the Fawaz era - frequent reactive communications that were only aimed at appeasing the masses. It’s about time we had owners who just got on with the job rather than feel they have to constantly respond to fans who can’t tolerate a bit of uncertainty.

Or maybe they should say, “We were serious about glacial progress in midtable, but now we’re serious about promotion”.

 

[puds1970]

You believe him, fair enough. Maybe he is being genuine, as I said, although I doubt he was told that losing more than half of his games and consistently shipping soft goals was acceptable.

I don’t see any need for the club to respond to what he has said.

Of course I believe him. Why not if I’m not going to hear anything to the contrary?. And of course you don’t see that the club needs to respond as you thought it was the right decision.

 

[puds1970]

I'd say the very fact that so many doubts remain is good enough reason.

Whether folk are questioning rightly or wrongly the club are relying on results to change their perception, as opposed to changing it themselves and being prepared for results to go either good or bad.

We're now relying on good results to keep everyone on board. A statement telling us a bit about the disparity & disagreements with Warbs vision, & how AK suited better will at least keep onside fans that simply feel as if they've been betrayed.

Whether that's all right or wrong is irrelevant, it's just something which I think helps protect against a shite season, and keeps folk on board for next year.

it amazes me that an organisation which can spend millions on players can't release a simple statement. You could chuck numerous posters on here a few quid and they'd wang one up within minutes.

Excellent post Alf.

 

[Erik]

Or maybe they should say, “We were serious about glacial progress in midtable, but now we’re serious about promotion”.

To be fair, it does take an awful lot to halt a glaciers progress, although it does have a finite end.

And that last time Forest were serious about promotion they got relegated. I'd sooner we didn't go there again.

 

[Ravi]

And that last time Forest were serious about promotion they got relegated. I'd sooner we didn't go there again.

That was my tongue-in-cheek point Erik.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

Did he actually ever say that here?

I remember him saying similar. He was asked what his plan was when passing the ball around teams wasn't working and he said pass it quicker.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

I'd say the very fact that so many doubts remain is good enough reason.

Whether folk are questioning rightly or wrongly the club are relying on results to change their perception, as opposed to changing it themselves and being prepared for results to go either good or bad.

We're now relying on good results to keep everyone on board. A statement telling us a bit about the disparity & disagreements with Warbs vision, & how AK suited better will at least keep onside fans that simply feel as if they've been betrayed.

Whether that's all right or wrong is irrelevant, it's just something which I think helps protect against a shite season, and keeps folk on board for next year.

it amazes me that an organisation which can spend millions on players can't release a simple statement. You could chuck numerous posters on here a few quid and they'd wang one up within minutes.

In light of the reaction of the fans and Randall being accused of lying in his preseason statement, perhaps the club feel further statements are more trouble than they are worth Alf?

 

[Ravi]

Of course I believe him. Why not if I’m not going to hear anything to the contrary?. And of course you don’t see that the club needs to respond as you thought it was the right decision.

And whatever statement the club put out would never be enough for fans who think it was the wrong decision.

 

[puds1970]

And whatever statement the club put out would never be enough for fans who think it was the wrong decision.

Well if they said MW knew that our aim was x and he fell short of meeting this remit that would be something wouldn’t it?.
Remember it was a member of the hierarchy that released the statement at the beginning of the season alluding to the slow progress and that MW would be given the time to see it through (or similar).
If the club had said that our aim is play offs or similar and he knew it and failed to get the right players in to do this then I would agree with his sacking.
It’s that simple.

 

[ScottC]

Whatever his opinion on whether the goal posts were moved, the fact is that team weren't performing. Not only was the form inconsistent (it is for most in the championship) but after 25 odd games his team still weren't doing the basics and clearly had no grasp of his style of play. Thats before we get on to the rumours of his motive for signing certain players.

 

[MASE]

Sorry i don't get it, those last performances were shit and Karanka has to take some of the blame for them. If i was in the team on Tuesday and saw Darikwa on the team sheet ahead of LIchaj i'd be questioning the manager big time.. I know that as Forest fans we have to try and put a positive spin on things but this has been a pretty unimpressive start.. The only good things i'd say about most of the signings is that they are loans so at least they shouldn't cost too much and still don't really have a left back. A step in the right direction would be to give Eric the captains arm band rather than not playing him!

Darikwa & Mckay were proactive moves from the Hull game, Karanka clearly doesn't hang about discussing fine margins.

Subjective as to who plunged the deepest depths of performance, irrelevant because AK had far less games.

Its the perspective of the two managers that could hold the key. AK went public to say Preston was the worst performance of his managerial career.

Probably that ruthless streak will justify the decision.

 

[puds1970]

Whatever his opinion on whether the goal posts were moved, the fact is that team weren't performing. Not only was the form inconsistent (it is for most in the championship) but after 25 odd games his team still weren't doing the basics and clearly had no grasp of his style of play. Thats before we get on to the rumours of his motive for signing certain players.

Oh we were inconsistent. We were poor in some games. We lost a lot of games. But we have believe it or not improved from last season.
It obviously wasn’t enough or done quickly enough for the owners so we will carry on this bang or bust mentality that has failed for years.