Thomas
Martel Maxwell Enjoyer
yeah this time it was cook, his experienced side didn’t show up today! Annoyed the piss out of me.
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Joseph Adrian Worrall (The Club Captain!)
- Thread starter Rzar
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yeah this time it was cook, his experienced side didn’t show up today! Annoyed the piss out of me.
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Timothy Pope
I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
I thought Cook did a decent job on Kane for most of the game.
Barry
Where's me hammer?
Raymondo Ponte'
It's all about mid-table...
We haven't become a bad defence overnight. Good strong defenders.
I think the tempo of opposition is a learning curve, especially late in games, we look dead onnuz feet.
I think the tempo of opposition is a learning curve, especially late in games, we look dead onnuz feet.
4 games in a bit early to say but all 4 teams we have played have had plenty of chances. We have played open though in the home games, if we played 7 defenders like some teams the centre-backs would have a much easier job. Wolves for example have 5 at the back and 2 midfielders who never go ahead of the ball. I hope we don't end up like that, scraping for points.
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
It's only because of Henderson though. I don't think we could've complained if Newcastle hit 5 against us and West Ham were very unfortunate not to score. In the first half especially Spurs looked like they were going to score with every attack.
Bonalair
John Robertson
You must have watched a different game to me
West ham weren't unlucky, they hit the bar twice so 2 shots off target and missed a penalty. Newcastle was the first game of the season where we had Colback in the middle of the park, that game is completely irrelevant. Yesterday Spurs attacked well but barely had any clear cut chances, Hendo only made 1 or 2 good saves that I can remember, they scored from a midfielder losing out on the ball and another midfielder going for a walk rather than marking Kane, the other arguably was a defensive mistake, but we kept Spurs at bay for most of the game.
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
Fair enough. Agree to disagree on this one.
Personally I think we've looked far from solid but there you go.
The thing you have to remember is that the midfield play a massive role in stopping the attacks just as much as the defence do and the midfield is pretty much completely new and learning how to play together. Yes we've made mistakes, but 3/5s of the defence have never played a prem game before this season and the other 2 played very few. They are all also still learning how to play together, I think the harsh criticism isnt fair and I'm sure Worral, McKenna etc will come good.
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
I do agree that the system we play really needs defenders that get across the ground quickly and can cover more space. I mentioned yesterday that no full backs and no true defensive midfielder can really expose the back 3 at times and when they aren't the most mobile they can end up looking a bit silly at this level.
We're crying out for pace back there.
BryanRoy22
Ian Bowyer
Our defence is constantly exposed as we push up so high in order to take teams on. Worrall and McKenna sometimes get involved high up the pitch also and it's not easy if Yates and O'Brien are also up there trying to open up the opposition with one-twos.
Our midfield isn't offering enough protection. James Garner had an incredible ability to read the game and sniff danger, fantastic positioning, and he'd often cut out through balls down the middle, track back with pace, slide in and in almost one movement he was back up on his feet playing a Carrick-like quality ball to Johnson or Spence. So we effectively had 2 extremely fast and tricky wingers flying forward and not many teams could handle it. We are doing things differently this season, it's a much better standard of opponent and it'll take time.
Our midfield isn't offering enough protection. James Garner had an incredible ability to read the game and sniff danger, fantastic positioning, and he'd often cut out through balls down the middle, track back with pace, slide in and in almost one movement he was back up on his feet playing a Carrick-like quality ball to Johnson or Spence. So we effectively had 2 extremely fast and tricky wingers flying forward and not many teams could handle it. We are doing things differently this season, it's a much better standard of opponent and it'll take time.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
That's pretty much how I saw it yesterday, and think a lot of that was to do with the partnership, given they haven't played together much (and to be clear, not that they can't - there was the making of another good pairing on show yesterday).
Criticising a defence that have been left 3 on 3, or 3 v 2 at one point is easy, but it isn't necessarily pointing the criticism in the right direction. That said, if Niakhate's injury is long term then we will need to replace him it seems; we need what he has.
cheapseats
Grenville Morris
It’s a balance Bryan and I think what we are seeing is the higher the level the more important the midfield is…
I sort of agree with you that our defensive screen could be better but I’m also terrified we slip back into that deep midfield holding position that invites teams on to us because that’s the way you get real hidings against good sides. Kane had 3 gods chances yesterday and scored 2. Imagine if he’d had 8 or 9, which would have been probable if we’d sat last season deep.
I’ll feel happier when we have our Swiss midfielder in there-he will know the score I think and the final thing is the defence has to start up top. That attacking 3 have to work their nuts off screening the midfield when we loose possession
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
Yeah it's surely a matter of time before Freuler gets in the side and stays there.
As much as we love Yates and even O'Brien I think when Freuler gets in there for a decent length of time we'll see another level of ball retention and general game management.
Tricky Tourist
Viv Anderson
I wrote something similar a couple of weeks ago. Garner was so important to us last season not only for his undoubted talents knitting together defence and attack, but also his pace and ability to cover for absent centre halves when we were hit on the counter saved us on a number of occasions. I still hope we can sign him 'cos none of the other midfielders we've recruited appear, so far at least, to possess Garner's combination of technical prowess and his physical qualities, particularly his speed and stamina.
cheapseats
Grenville Morris
To be fair we’ve not seen more than a handful of minutes from 1/2 of them.
I think the Garner ship has sailed unfortunately
Tricky Tourist
Viv Anderson
I've got a couple more days to live in hope before the window closes
Chappers85
Can't Play Left-Back
Is it suicide to suggest we switch to 4-2-3-1 to address the attack? If we had either Dennis/Awonyi/Surridge up front with MGW/Lingard/BJ behind and then Freuler and one of Yates/LOB/Mangala/CK sitting in front of the back 4, would it leave us too exposed? I'm playing devil's advocate a little here as 3 at the back has served us so well, but I do wonder whether Cooper is considering it. I know we switched to a back 4 yesterday and lost our shape but we were chasing the game with fresh legs.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Tactically for me it is as much about matching the opposition as playing your own match sometimes. Yesterday Spurs played a front 3 so if we played 3 at the back could go man-for-man on them when needed without having to pull a full-back or midfielder out of position.
Most teams tend to not play a front 2 and play 1 with 2 behind which also suits defending with a back 3.
Ideally in the midfield you should have at least 1 primarily protecting the back 4 (Yates or Mangala usually in our squad would do this) with a more offensive central player like LO'B or Freuler (or Garner last season) who can get the ball and send it more attacking or wide.
What I think we did wrong yesterday (though Cooper no doubt has his reasons) is to go with a more false-9 approach with Lingard, MGW and Johnson up front, none of whom are really strikers, not in the more out and out sense of the 3 strikers we had on the bench. Now I think that Sammy Surridge is unlikely to go back and make a chance but will finish it in the box, there were plenty of opportunities yesterday that he probably would have at least attempted to get on, and certainly being able to finish in the area isn't really a standard thing, natural finishers usually score at any level and he is one. Awoyini and Dennis look more like they'll run deeper and play the channels more than Surridge does but still are naturally strikers so would get into the danger areas more than the likes of JL, BJ and MGW wbo are attacking midfield players really. It seems to me that he rightly wanted to play MGW from the start (which was good) but that he also didn't want to drop either BJ or JL (when Lingard hadn't done a lot for us yet - and ironically, probably had his best game yesterday) and as a result we had a fair amount of bluster in the attacking 3rd but no real cutting edge in terms of clear cut opportunities we should have scored...
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
There are few teams that expose you on the counter attack like Spurs do though.
Yes we went toe-to-toe so left ourselves open but Spurs can beat teams 4 or 5 away from home like they did several times last season.
For me people are focusing on what we didn't do well, there were aspects to our game that we did brilliantly - that if we match against most other Prem sides we come out winners.
Yes we went toe-to-toe so left ourselves open but Spurs can beat teams 4 or 5 away from home like they did several times last season.
For me people are focusing on what we didn't do well, there were aspects to our game that we did brilliantly - that if we match against most other Prem sides we come out winners.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Agreed
For me its already pretty certain this season that matches against Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, we're unlikely to get any points out of. With the possible exception of Utd, who are clearly in transition, they are established European elite and as a promoted side with our own rebuild in progress we're unlikely to match anything and are simply likely to lose home and away to them. Though all matches start 0-0 and anything can happen it's just more likely.
But with the rest, it's a more level playing field, certainly if we play like we did last week and yesterday against most teams in the division, we'll win more than we lose.
Thomas
Martel Maxwell Enjoyer
till he raised his arm