Rich
Rice IV
I was being flippant!
-
All - as you will understand, the forum is exceptionally busy at this time. The admins and moderators simply don't have time to read every post in every thread. Could you PLEASE use the "Report" option below a post to flag any content that you feel we need to be aware of. We'll review everything reported as a priority and deal with it accordingly. Thank you.
Half price season tickets at Newcastle
- Thread starter sammy the snake
- Start date
W
winnits
Guest
I know you were 
Tricky Macc Lad
Banned
I can assure you I haven't come here to 'just have a pop' - but I'm entitled to my opinion, just as anyone is. Sadly 'brigade' does tend to be the way things go - you get maybe one or two 'dissenters' on a forum who question the money making side of things and they are quickly rounded on by a section of posters, many of whom just happen to be accountants.
Anyway - I don't think offering cheap tickets would disuade season ticket holders - after all, if those seats were desireable, they'd already be filled, wouldn't they? Often the seats that are left are the ones no-one really wants to sit in, so why not flog them off cheap?
As an alternative, why not greatly reduce the ST price for those undesireable seast in the first place?
I think ST holders need something more though to entice them to spend all their money - something that day ticket purchasers would never get. Even something like a free kit of their choice, entry into a weekly draw, £50 voucher for the club shop.......loss leaders encourage sales - got to be better than just rolling out a few rumours about 'being serious about promotion' or 'stellar signings' or whatever crap the club roll out next time!.
What annoys me about the nay sayers is that they just blank any form of discussion about revenue generating - but if this FFP malarky comes into force, then without increased revenue, this club is going to sink without trace. Once we've sold off all our marketable players - what next?
Our current CEO has done diddly squat to increase revenue - and let's be honest, his track record at Notts CCC was just as bad. There are plenty of other clubs managing to make their fan base spend more money, or generally to just make more money out of their football club.
Just saying 'it'll never work' is what the current board have been doing for over a decade......having fans take up that mantle and accept it as being gospel is why NFFC PLC gets away with so much!
If we stopped accepting mediocrity and asked why we can't at least keep pace with our local rivals and counterparts, then things would surely only get better on all fronts?
Anyway - I don't think offering cheap tickets would disuade season ticket holders - after all, if those seats were desireable, they'd already be filled, wouldn't they? Often the seats that are left are the ones no-one really wants to sit in, so why not flog them off cheap?
As an alternative, why not greatly reduce the ST price for those undesireable seast in the first place?
I think ST holders need something more though to entice them to spend all their money - something that day ticket purchasers would never get. Even something like a free kit of their choice, entry into a weekly draw, £50 voucher for the club shop.......loss leaders encourage sales - got to be better than just rolling out a few rumours about 'being serious about promotion' or 'stellar signings' or whatever crap the club roll out next time!.
What annoys me about the nay sayers is that they just blank any form of discussion about revenue generating - but if this FFP malarky comes into force, then without increased revenue, this club is going to sink without trace. Once we've sold off all our marketable players - what next?
Our current CEO has done diddly squat to increase revenue - and let's be honest, his track record at Notts CCC was just as bad. There are plenty of other clubs managing to make their fan base spend more money, or generally to just make more money out of their football club.
Just saying 'it'll never work' is what the current board have been doing for over a decade......having fans take up that mantle and accept it as being gospel is why NFFC PLC gets away with so much!
If we stopped accepting mediocrity and asked why we can't at least keep pace with our local rivals and counterparts, then things would surely only get better on all fronts?
Season Ticket holders (like me) used to get an attractive discount of 10% in the club shop.
That went when Kitbag took over, even though - initially - we were told it would remain.
From memory, my ST works out around £19 a match; of the club consistently started selling tickets for (for example) £5, then it wouldn't take long before this would make a season ticket less value for money.
I don't spend any money in the stadium on a match day, simply because I can get a better choice, at cheaper prices, and in a better atmosphere, elsewhere.
The City Ground sadly doesn't have the commercial facilities that other more modern stadia have.
What would you rather have?
The City Ground as it is, or a modern stadium, somewhere else in Nottingham (maybe "out of town") with extra facilities?
I prefer to be able to get the bus to Trent Bridge, walk into a nice pub, get a decent pint and some decent grub, at cheap prices, before walking up to the ground.
That went when Kitbag took over, even though - initially - we were told it would remain.
From memory, my ST works out around £19 a match; of the club consistently started selling tickets for (for example) £5, then it wouldn't take long before this would make a season ticket less value for money.
I don't spend any money in the stadium on a match day, simply because I can get a better choice, at cheaper prices, and in a better atmosphere, elsewhere.
The City Ground sadly doesn't have the commercial facilities that other more modern stadia have.
What would you rather have?
The City Ground as it is, or a modern stadium, somewhere else in Nottingham (maybe "out of town") with extra facilities?
I prefer to be able to get the bus to Trent Bridge, walk into a nice pub, get a decent pint and some decent grub, at cheap prices, before walking up to the ground.
gedlingred
Grenville Morris
If Derby were relegated from the premier league in 2007/2008 then in 2009/2010, they would still have been entitled to the second year parachute payment of £16 million (?).
If that figure is included in the turnover of £30 million that you quote, then in fact, Forest's turnover from gate receipts and commercial activity is actually at least on a par with Derby. And in the same year, there was very little difference between Forest's turnover and Leicester City's.
Now given that both Derby and Leicester had better attendances than us in 2009/2010 (Derby's was better by almost 6000)and given that both clubs have new stadia (and all the commercial benefits that brings) then I don't think the Forest fans and the Forest owners are doing too badly in generating the revenue that they do.
Of course, we could always do more, but there certainly isn't a catastrophic failure as is being suggested.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
As pointed out three times now, if you offer cheap tickets every game then people will stop coughing up for season tickets and pay on the door. 23 x 5 < £400. This isn't a dig at you, you need to find a way to entice new fans without isolating the long standing fans. Lowering general sale ticket prices only fulfills one side of this equation.
There are no brigades and you're not being victimised. You're offering potential solutions with obvious flaws in them that are being pointed out. Those are the only thing being 'blanked out' and rightly so. You suggested earlier that you don't work in finances. I do. So does Rich. Nitty gritty details get quite important..
My money generating solution? Sell Tyson for a £1m rather than let his contract run out.
Red Duster
Who will BooBaby boo?
I often get left behind and I think i'm lagging again. What's the current mood? Are we wanting cheaper season tickets or are we trying to raise income? Just let me know and i'll join in.
Does one mean future seasons in the 3rd tier and the other 2nd or even 1st?
Does one mean future seasons in the 3rd tier and the other 2nd or even 1st?
Tricky Macc Lad
Banned
As pointed out three times now, if you offer cheap tickets every game then people will stop coughing up for season tickets and pay on the door. 23 x 5 < £400. This isn't a dig at you, you need to find a way to entice new fans without isolating the long standing fans. Lowering general sale ticket prices only fulfills one side of this equation.
There are no brigades and you're not being victimised. You're offering potential solutions with obvious flaws in them that are being pointed out. Those are the only thing being 'blanked out' and rightly so. You suggested earlier that you don't work in finances. I do. So does Rich. Nitty gritty details get quite important..
My money generating solution? Sell Tyson for a £1m rather than let his contract run out.
Again - well done you for working in finance.
But common sense seems to escape you - as does the ability to read what someone writes, rather than assume what they've written and make it fit your reply.
Cheap tickets for otherwise empty seats is not the same as 'cheap tickets no matter what'.
The CG has many areas that are not what people would say are 'first choice' areas of the ground to sit. Yes, the ST's are normally a little cheaper in those areas - but if those ST's are not sold, then they're obviously not cheap enough! If they go through an entire season being unsold, then someone has got their bean counting wrong!
ST's have been bought for the year. But keeping portions of the ground empty for fear of upsetting a (dimishing amount) ST holders is false economy.
What is to say that those enjoying getting in a little cheaper this year might not get the bug and buy their own ST next season? What about if a whole family comes along to take advantage of a cheap(er) day out and then starts making it a regular thing?
What's wrong with saying to existing ST holders - "Hey - we've not forgotten about you - we've given these people cheaper tickets as we want to improve the atmosphere in the ground, but so you don't feel hard done by, here's a £50 voucher for the club shop and a 10% off for next season's ST if you renew by.........."
These are what I'd call 'marketing strategies'. The vouchers could surely be funded by the cheap tickets sold. The 10% reduction in next year's ST price could surely be offset against the fact that you'd be getting payment in a bit earlier.....
BTW - I didn't say I was being victimised - I'm big and ugly enough to look after myself on that front.
But as your post clearly illustrates, you're quick to see the 'flaws' in my comments, but not all that quick in coming up with solutions.
And you're supposed to work in finance?? (Does working the till at McDonalds really count as finance though?)
W
winnits
Guest
I'm not sure that's correct - the cheapest season tickets are in the Trent End - and that's pretty well populated by season ticket holders. The more expensive ones are unfeasibly in the Main Stand. There's certainly plenty of space in the BC stand for season tickets - but again, not the cheapest area.
If areas were offered up as cheaper season ticket areas you'd auto-reward existing holders - there's a president for it, when cheap tickets were offered in 'Pinnacle Place' (as was) there was a mass migration of fans from the Trent End to there - and back again when the prices crept up but the Trent End ones were kept lower. It might drive some incremental value too, but I'm not sure it would offset the reduction in revenue from the existing ticket holders getting a cheaper deal.
I don't work in finance... and to be honest, struggle to see much by way of a solution - if I'm brutally honest, whilst I opposed it, getting a free new ground with opportunities to drive non-matchday revenue to a greater degree than the City Ground can would have been a bloody good solution to the conundrum of revenue generation.
As far as I can tell now we're in a chicken-and-egg situation - there's clearly a chunk of fans staying away due to inauspicious times on the pitch of late - success on the pitch would bring fans in - but of course, to achieve success on the pitch requires investment - and a healthy turnover if FFP is enforced.
I do, however, completely agree that Forest miss a trick in offering early renewal benefits - I imagine though, that a 10% early renewal discount probably doesn't stack up in increasing revenue - all you're doing is getting 10% less from somebody who - chances are - were going to renew at full rate anyway. Whilst I take on board your point about early cash in the coffers is desirable (it certainly is), I'm not sure you could achieve 10% growth on that cash inside a few weeks.
£50 off at the club shop vouchers become difficult because of the Kitbag arrangement now - it would probably be something that Forest would have to retro-fund with Kitbag and again, as such, basically be a £50 cost per redemption (when Forest ran the shop it could've worked, as obviously they'd be losing the cost-price rather than the full retail cost).
If areas were offered up as cheaper season ticket areas you'd auto-reward existing holders - there's a president for it, when cheap tickets were offered in 'Pinnacle Place' (as was) there was a mass migration of fans from the Trent End to there - and back again when the prices crept up but the Trent End ones were kept lower. It might drive some incremental value too, but I'm not sure it would offset the reduction in revenue from the existing ticket holders getting a cheaper deal.
I don't work in finance... and to be honest, struggle to see much by way of a solution - if I'm brutally honest, whilst I opposed it, getting a free new ground with opportunities to drive non-matchday revenue to a greater degree than the City Ground can would have been a bloody good solution to the conundrum of revenue generation.
As far as I can tell now we're in a chicken-and-egg situation - there's clearly a chunk of fans staying away due to inauspicious times on the pitch of late - success on the pitch would bring fans in - but of course, to achieve success on the pitch requires investment - and a healthy turnover if FFP is enforced.
I do, however, completely agree that Forest miss a trick in offering early renewal benefits - I imagine though, that a 10% early renewal discount probably doesn't stack up in increasing revenue - all you're doing is getting 10% less from somebody who - chances are - were going to renew at full rate anyway. Whilst I take on board your point about early cash in the coffers is desirable (it certainly is), I'm not sure you could achieve 10% growth on that cash inside a few weeks.
£50 off at the club shop vouchers become difficult because of the Kitbag arrangement now - it would probably be something that Forest would have to retro-fund with Kitbag and again, as such, basically be a £50 cost per redemption (when Forest ran the shop it could've worked, as obviously they'd be losing the cost-price rather than the full retail cost).
Rich
Rice IV
I'm not keen on replying to you as you just seem intent on getting into an argument for the sake of it. I appreciate that you are a regular on Vital, but please bear in mind that the general vibe here is different. Insults like 'Working the till at McDonalds' aren't really the norm here.
We get that you think the club should give away tickets for next to nothing. It's been pointed out factually that there is no benefit from the club shop nor the catering outlets, and some people have offered their opinion that if the club offered £5 tickets they would prefer to buy them than buy their season tickets.
We all agree that a fuller City Ground would be better, but your methods would reduce revenues, not increase them.
We get that you think the club should give away tickets for next to nothing. It's been pointed out factually that there is no benefit from the club shop nor the catering outlets, and some people have offered their opinion that if the club offered £5 tickets they would prefer to buy them than buy their season tickets.
We all agree that a fuller City Ground would be better, but your methods would reduce revenues, not increase them.
bakeri666
Geoff Thomas
I have never worked in finance, and don't really understand football as a business, but I do understand my reactions, and I do know that if I buy a season ticket and someone 5 seats away gets to watch the game for a fiver every week because that seat has never had a season ticket holder in it I'd be very annoyed.
I also know that of I buy the cheapest season ticket (Trent end) and then q block all go to fiver a game I'll be annoyed even though I don't really want to sit in the BC stand.
I also know that if q block season tickets were a fiver I'd leave the Trent end and go to q block instead, thus losing the club money, and the cheap tickets would all be taken by renewing season ticket holders because they get first bite at the cherry, so those that can't afford current prices would be left with the expensive seats that they are already avoiding.
I don't care how popular a seat is, I don't want some one getting to games for a quarter of the price i'm paying just because they left it till seats weren't selling, when as a season ticket holder I allegedly get a loyalty discount per game for pre booking
That's just me though.
I also know that of I buy the cheapest season ticket (Trent end) and then q block all go to fiver a game I'll be annoyed even though I don't really want to sit in the BC stand.
I also know that if q block season tickets were a fiver I'd leave the Trent end and go to q block instead, thus losing the club money, and the cheap tickets would all be taken by renewing season ticket holders because they get first bite at the cherry, so those that can't afford current prices would be left with the expensive seats that they are already avoiding.
I don't care how popular a seat is, I don't want some one getting to games for a quarter of the price i'm paying just because they left it till seats weren't selling, when as a season ticket holder I allegedly get a loyalty discount per game for pre booking
That's just me though.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Nothing wrong with working the tills at McDonalds. I used to get a free burger at lunch because the manager liked me, but then the other staff who did pay full price for their lunch stopped buying so the manager stopped that freebie for me. I'm back in his good books though as I negotiated a £1.8m outsource of ketchup packets to Kitbag and my badge now says Junior Assistant Financial Till Manager. I also beat Vince Cable in a Darth Vadar lookalike competition.
W
winnits
Guest
Whilst I don't work in finance I am a number geek - it would be really interesting to get hold of ticket sale data along with the resultant attendances to calculate out some elasticity numbers... then we really could talk adjustments to the average ticket price with some basis in reality rather than just idle theories that aren't quantifiable. You'd need to factor in other variables such as the attractiveness of the fixture (which could be linked to opponent, stage of season (and the position in which Forest are) etc as well as perhaps some kind of factor of relative success of the team too....
Ah, if only Forest decided one day they needed a data analyst - and of course paid a competitive salary to their off-field staff - then I could be in hogs heaven trying to work all these things out!
Ah, if only Forest decided one day they needed a data analyst - and of course paid a competitive salary to their off-field staff - then I could be in hogs heaven trying to work all these things out!
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Aye, twould. I just don't believe that almost every single club in the football league has seemingly missed this opportunity to generate extra cash. It's not exactly rocket science, nor would it be difficult to put into practice. That kind of leads me to think that the numbers have been cruched and results indicated a smaller number of higher ticket prices generate more profit than a larger number of lower priced tickets. But what does a McDonalds employee know?
W
winnits
Guest
I imagine the numbers have been crunched at a very top line level - I think there's probably scope to do something a bit more sophisticated though...
bakeri666
Geoff Thomas
What they put in the milkshakes to make them stay thick so long?
The recipe for the secret sauce?
Why they built the drive through's with 3 windows, then ignored one, then re established the 3 window system using an intercom and computer screen?
Why they can't spell through?
Tricky Macc Lad
Banned
And you need to stop being so precious and understand the term 'banter'. I'm amazed your little ears can handle 90 minutes at a football match with all the nasty men swearing........
But hey, when you don't have an answer, then I guess a cop out is the best you can offer.......
W
winnits
Guest
In fairness to Rich, he did answer - and the random insult-chucking isn't really banter, it's insult-chucking - and whilst I doubt it does anyone any particular harm nor causes upset I would suggest that it says 'cop out' rather more strongly that simply offering a counterpoint or critique to your posts.
But each to their own.
But each to their own.
Last edited:
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Ooh you go girl.
Tricky Macc Lad
Banned
Oh dear - how times have changed.....
Sadly, I guess the apathetic nature of the way in which this club has been run for over a decade has well and truly rubbed off on many of you....
Nevermind - I was willing to give this forum a go, seeing as how I didn't think it was possible to be as bad as it's reputation made it out.
But sadly it seems it was....
Alan - say hi to Rich for me
But that's me done here.......I'll leave you lot to wallow in mediocrity and be thankful for it.........
Sadly, I guess the apathetic nature of the way in which this club has been run for over a decade has well and truly rubbed off on many of you....
Nevermind - I was willing to give this forum a go, seeing as how I didn't think it was possible to be as bad as it's reputation made it out.
But sadly it seems it was....
Alan - say hi to Rich for me
But that's me done here.......I'll leave you lot to wallow in mediocrity and be thankful for it.........
W
winnits
Guest
So basically if (some) people don't agree with you and offer a reasonable critique as to why, that's it? Oh well, cheerio. For what it's worth, I completely agree revenue needs to be grown, I just don't think your suggestions would lead to it.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Tutts
Ian Bowyer
That's a very apathetic viewpoint.
But then, I work in Finance, so shouldn't really contribute.
nunuschmu
Viv Anderson
I know Jack about numbers but I reckon I've got more fingers than the macc lad made posts
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Is that because you're from Norwich?