Half price season tickets at Newcastle

[sammy the snake]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ewcastle-offer-half-price-season-tickets.html

Seems a good plan, trouble is, next seasons season ticket sales pre season could be at risk

Doubt Forest would gamble, but I could be persuaded into buying one at half price

 

[nffc13]

With Marthur looking after that side of things it seems, there's no way this would happen. Especially with the FFP, clubs want to bring in as much money as ever, and this may not be the best way.

 

[Marshall.]

Only D**by do shit like this

 

[chap]

Only D**by do shit like this

And Newcastle, apparently.

 

[winnits]

Forest used to do half-priced season tickets after Christmas

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

This would royally f*** me off.

Paid a full price ticket only for some half-arsed fans to get a ST for half price now that the team aren't shit with less than 33% of home games played?

Sod off.

Half price ticket for the final 9 home games only like Forest did a couple years back.

 

[RRRREDUN]

Forest used to do half-priced season tickets after Christmas

Err, yes, for half the games!!! I guess I wouldn't mind if they sold tickets cheap for say the lower Bridgford - often little demand for our last 6000 seats or so. I often think that Forest ought to give housing developers free season tickets to help sell their houses; try to hook people - a free wrap so to speak. Full price next time.

 

[winnits]

Err, yes, for half the games!!! I guess I wouldn't mind if they sold tickets cheap for say the lower Bridgford - often little demand for our last 6000 seats or so. I often think that Forest ought to give housing developers free season tickets to help sell their houses; try to hook people - a free wrap so to speak. Full price next time.

 

[Carvel]

Be pissed off if I'd already bought one. No reward for being loyal.

 

[Morpeth]

It's only open to people who already have one so what's the issue?

 

[jimbaxter]

i remember reading in the newspapers years ago when Newcastle were a top team challenging man u at the top,possibly the year of psycho's testimonial? the ground was packed all season from the start,there were 2 seats empty next to one guy every game,just after christmas a man and his son had the seats, when asked where they had been all season the guy says the missus bought the seats for christmas presents for us :congored:

 

[Tricky Macc Lad]

Forest never get this right though, do they (certainly not under the current regime).

Bottom line - SELL THE GROUND OUT! 20,000 fans at £30 a ticket or 30,000 fans at £20 a ticket - which one is better for the atmosphere, for the team support, for the chance to raise revenue OTHER than just ticket sales......

Done properly (and that's something else MA and ND are catastrophically bad at) ticket sales are not the be-all-and-end-all of revenue generation - get more people along to the ground in the first place, and you have chance to get them to buy other stuff.....

Sadly, such simple solutions have escaped our owners for well over a decade......

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Forest never get this right though, do they (certainly not under the current regime).

Bottom line - SELL THE GROUND OUT! 20,000 fans at £30 a ticket or 30,000 fans at £20 a ticket - which one is better for the atmosphere, for the team support, for the chance to raise revenue OTHER than just ticket sales......

Done properly (and that's something else MA and ND are catastrophically bad at) ticket sales are not the be-all-and-end-all of revenue generation - get more people along to the ground in the first place, and you have chance to get them to buy other stuff.....

Sadly, such simple solutions have escaped our owners for well over a decade......

We wouldn't sell out at £20. Maybe a tenner, but then you've got to make up almost £250k per game in extra sales. There's only so many burgers Rich can buy.

Edit: Actually it's probably about £125k due to ST's not paying on the day. Maybe Rich would be able to make up that lost revenue in burger sales.

 

[RRRREDUN]

Thanks Winnits! Haven't ever had a whoosh before - just batting your wry comment around!
As for reducing prices ......... some of our 'fans' who live round here, can afford it etc etc still wouldn't go, even at a tenner, unless you went round to their houses, carried them from their sofas to your car, and took them to the ground (right to the turnstile). You still might have to carry them to the toilet at half time (and buy them a pint after the game).

 

[Tricky Macc Lad]

My maths was simply to illustrate a point.

If there are (for a rough example) 10,000 empty seats at any given game, then even selling them for a fiver on the day nets you an extra £50k - that's an extra £1million a season (or there abouts).

Saying that we have to 'make up' a lost amount is only based on the assumption that you'd sell out at the higher price - which you wouldn't, so it's an irrelevant figure.

Pack the place out at £15 a head and then address the REAL issue - and what Forest are crap at - make those people start spending money inside the ground on food and drink, merchandise and hospitality.

Even now, we have one of the highest attendences in the league, but only sit around half way in the revenue generating stakes.

If and when the myth that is FFP comes into play, we're miles behind as we can't balance our books without offloading players, such is MA and ND's utter failings over 12 years to be able to make this club generate anything like it's potential revenue....

Until ND f**ks off and we get an owner in who knows how to run a football club, will build us a new ground and will start to allow this club to make money that it can then spend, NFFC is going nowhere......sadly........

 

[Morpeth]

My maths was simply to illustrate a point.

If there are (for a rough example) 10,000 empty seats at any given game, then even selling them for a fiver on the day nets you an extra £50k - that's an extra £1million a season (or there abouts).

Saying that we have to 'make up' a lost amount is only based on the assumption that you'd sell out at the higher price - which you wouldn't, so it's an irrelevant figure.

Pack the place out at £15 a head and then address the REAL issue - and what Forest are crap at - make those people start spending money inside the ground on food and drink, merchandise and hospitality.

Even now, we have one of the highest attendences in the league, but only sit around half way in the revenue generating stakes.

If and when the myth that is FFP comes into play, we're miles behind as we can't balance our books without offloading players, such is MA and ND's utter failings over 12 years to be able to make this club generate anything like it's potential revenue....

Until ND f**ks off and we get an owner in who knows how to run a football club, will build us a new ground and will start to allow this club to make money that it can then spend, NFFC is going nowhere......sadly........

What's this got to do with mag scum?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

My maths was simply to illustrate a point.

If there are (for a rough example) 10,000 empty seats at any given game, then even selling them for a fiver on the day nets you an extra £50k - that's an extra £1million a season (or there abouts).

Saying that we have to 'make up' a lost amount is only based on the assumption that you'd sell out at the higher price - which you wouldn't, so it's an irrelevant figure.

Pack the place out at £15 a head and then address the REAL issue - and what Forest are crap at - make those people start spending money inside the ground on food and drink, merchandise and hospitality.

Even now, we have one of the highest attendences in the league, but only sit around half way in the revenue generating stakes.

If and when the myth that is FFP comes into play, we're miles behind as we can't balance our books without offloading players, such is MA and ND's utter failings over 12 years to be able to make this club generate anything like it's potential revenue....

Until ND f**ks off and we get an owner in who knows how to run a football club, will build us a new ground and will start to allow this club to make money that it can then spend, NFFC is going nowhere......sadly........

There are roughly 13,000 ST holders at Forest, with an average gate of 21,000 something give or take. That's 8,000 paying customers week on week, currently at what £16 a ticket (Average adult, child, senior combined)? You're looking at a take of around £125k per match.

£15 for adults isn't going to tempt that many more to the ground. If you make it a tenner we might hit 27000 or so. Fair guess? So, 14,000 extra people at say, £7 average (again, average of adult, child, senior). Thats just under £100k.

To make that lost revenue back you need to make sure every single one of those extra fans who buy the £10 ticket spend £2.50 in the ground on food or merch. They won't.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more fans and a rocking city ground but there's a reason why every single club in the league charges more for a ticket than packing out the ground - the bottom line. The figure therefore is entirely relevant.

On a seperate note, if you charge people a fiver every game to get that extra revenue then people will stop buying season tickets. 5 x 23 = £115, which would save me about £300 a year.

 

[Rich]

Forest never get this right though, do they (certainly not under the current regime).

Bottom line - SELL THE GROUND OUT! 20,000 fans at £30 a ticket or 30,000 fans at £20 a ticket - which one is better for the atmosphere, for the team support, for the chance to raise revenue OTHER than just ticket sales......

Done properly (and that's something else MA and ND are catastrophically bad at) ticket sales are not the be-all-and-end-all of revenue generation - get more people along to the ground in the first place, and you have chance to get them to buy other stuff.....

Sadly, such simple solutions have escaped our owners for well over a decade......

There seems to be some basics that have escaped you.

Firstly the cost of housing fans, it's not a falt rate cost. There is a ratio of security and police to supporters. What you're saying would give no extra revenue to the club (at it's most base of levels 20k@£30 vs 30k@£20), but would increase the matchday hosting costs by 50%

As for revenue generation, you seem to overlook the measures that have been taken. The food and drinks concessions at the gorund have been outsourced for some time. What this means is that there is a flat rate retainer, essentially rented space, that Forest receive, so there is no benefit, unless there are certain revenue triggers written into the contracts, from buying a burger or not buying a ubrger from the ground.

This means that Forest, a football club, are not charged with holding stocks or assets relating to catering. By outsourcing to a catering company the fans are potentially able to see benefits of certain economies, such as if the catering company also works other grounds they can buy pies cheaper in larger quantities. Forest are also insulated against the depreciation of catering equpiment, to put it into context kitting out the ground for catering is probably in the region of a left back signing on fee in depreciation each year and a left backs transfer fee in capitalised purchases.

The same is true of the club shop. Forest had no buying power for merchandise, hence why prior to Kitbag it was poor quality and over priced. Kitbag have buying power in abundance, and utilise it well. What the outsourcing means is that the retainer forest receive from Kitbag is substantially higher than they ever made, or would be able to make, if they controlled the club shop themselves. It's also enabled a greater range of merchandise and brought in a targeted skillset to oversee the development making it a better experience for all fans.

The obvious downside for the fans has been the loss of the season ticket discount, and the inability to buy your shirt for less at Sports Direct. The upside has been that outsourcing generated £1.8m of revenue compared to £400k when we owned it, without hte hassle of owning the shop or it's contents. Football merchandise has a very short shelf life as stock, and there isn't the option to scrap it. It's actually a dirty business if you don't do it right, you could wind up with too many of last seasons kits and nowhere to shift them. Just looking at the accounts from a few years ago shows that the stocks held at the clubshop over the course of a year were horrendous. It's now clean and profit making, plus offers better service, for the most part, to the customers.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but the way you say Forest's revenue generation has been a catastrophic failure does betray a gross ignorance to exactly how they generate revenue.

Here's a question for you, what is the elasticity of the ticket prices, and where are Forest? If we raise the prices will the crowds fall directly in accordance, and if we drop them will they rise in accordance?

Edit: Actually it's probably about £125k due to ST's not paying on the day. Maybe Rich would be able to make up that lost revenue in burger sales.

Not until they start selling steak and kidney pies.

 

[Tricky Macc Lad]

. If you make it a tenner we might hit 27000 or so. Fair guess? So, 14,000 extra people at say, £7 average (again, average of adult, child, senior). Thats just under £100k.

To make that lost revenue back you need to make sure every single one of those extra fans who buy the £10 ticket spend £2.50 in the ground on food or merch. They won't. .

You miss the point - if there's 7-8,000 empty seats at games currently, then they're losing money for the fact that those seast are empty.

Whatever they manage to sell those remaining seats at is better than just leaving them empty.......you might as well let folk come in for free at half time - the atmosphere would improve, more programs would get sold, maybe a couple of burgers....it's all better than a ground that's a third empty.....

Aslo - if you can't get fans to spend a couple of quid per game on food and merch, then you need to address why not.....

 

[Rich]

You miss the point - if there's 7-8,000 empty seats at games currently, then they're losing money for the fact that those seast are empty.

Whatever they manage to sell those remaining seats at is better than just leaving them empty.......you might as well let folk come in for free at half time - the atmosphere would improve, more programs would get sold, maybe a couple of burgers....it's all better than a ground that's a third empty.....

Aslo - if you can't get fans to spend a couple of quid per game on food and merch, then you need to address why not.....

I don't think he's missed the point at all. You think getting 7000 extra bodies into the ground will make us more money, even if they only pay a small amount for the ticket.

Robbia has, correctly I might add, demonstrated that such a thing can lead to revenue losses.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

You miss the point - if there's 7-8,000 empty seats at games currently, then they're losing money for the fact that those seast are empty.

Whatever they manage to sell those remaining seats at is better than just leaving them empty.......you might as well let folk come in for free at half time - the atmosphere would improve, more programs would get sold, maybe a couple of burgers....it's all better than a ground that's a third empty.....

Aslo - if you can't get fans to spend a couple of quid per game on food and merch, then you need to address why not.....

See Rich's post. I knew it wouldn't take him long. I wasn't aware the food/drink was outsorced so scrap that revenue generator. You now need to make up the extra £30k (+ extra policing) in programmes alone.

Again, if you let pepole in for free then people who were paying for tickets will stop in the hope they get in for free. Same applies to the £5 ticket.

I don't spend any money on food when in the ground because there's simply no need. You can't sell shit to people who don't want it.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

And just for the record, that's my 'once a year agree with Rich' done for 2011.

 

[Tricky Macc Lad]

There seems to be some basics that have escaped you.

...edited out for the sake of not repeating all of what you've written, as pages of quotes is a boring read.........

So - in a nutshell, you're happy that NFFC has sold off all it potential revenue generating streams to Kitbag and the local burger emporium, because it's less hassle, rather than employ a CEO who could actually sit down and make improvements 'in house'?

On the subject of kits - you think that Kitbag buying off Umbro makes the quality better than if Forest bought off Umbro direct? You think that adding another middleman (Kitbag) into the process is somehow going to increase revenue?

The CG could and should attract all the money that currently gets spent in Bridgford and the like on a matchday - or at least a huge chunk of it.

With the Chuckle Brothers in charge, NFFC has simply not made the most of this as a revenue stream.

If they want us to believe that FFP is such a big deal, then making NFFC pay for itself 7 days a week is a must.

Simply selling it off bit by bit because it's too much effort is why we're a club that allegedly owes 6 times what the club was bought for, despite having achieved nothing in 12 years........

No - I'm not an accountant, nor a high flying businessman who can do profit and loss accounts - but I can recognise a cake and arse party when I see it, and NFFC PLC, over the past 12 years, has been just that!

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

That's another argument entirely though (and one I would might agree with if had access to the figures to fully weigh up pros/cons).

Edit: And I don't think Rich gave an opinion either way on selling off revenue streams, just merely pointed out that's what it is at the moment so that's the context your arguments have to work in.

 

[JoeBaker]

The same is true of the club shop. Forest had no buying power for merchandise, hence why prior to Kitbag it was poor quality and over priced. Kitbag have buying power in abundance, and utilise it well. What the outsourcing means is that the retainer forest receive from Kitbag is substantially higher than they ever made, or would be able to make, if they controlled the club shop themselves. It's also enabled a greater range of merchandise and brought in a targeted skillset to oversee the development making it a better experience for all fans.

The obvious downside for the fans has been the loss of the season ticket discount, and the inability to buy your shirt for less at Sports Direct. The upside has been that outsourcing generated £1.8m of revenue compared to £400k when we owned it, without hte hassle of owning the shop or it's contents. Football merchandise has a very short shelf life as stock, and there isn't the option to scrap it. It's actually a dirty business if you don't do it right, you could wind up with too many of last seasons kits and nowhere to shift them. Just looking at the accounts from a few years ago shows that the stocks held at the clubshop over the course of a year were horrendous. It's now clean and profit making, plus offers better service, for the most part, to the customers.
.

Im not sure we get a better service, do you know you can't but an away shirt/kit for a child under 7. They don't do an infant range for the away kit full stop. When I queried this they said they weren't running that line. Unbelievable, these kids are the future of our club yet you can't buy them the new away kit. I have sent an E-Mail to the club about this but im still waiting for a response, hopefully they are talking to kitbag and trying to get them to change this ludicrous policy. They certainly had an infant range (0-7) for away kits last season, on what basis have they decided not to bother this year, surely they were a seller. Like I said I await a response from the club