Football League Play-offs

[Bryn Gunn]

I work with a few Chelsea and Arsenal fans and they still say Forest have the feel of a bigger club than Leicester

Of course.

Same can be said of Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Aston Villa, West Brom, Birmingham...

They could spend the next ten years a league higher and still be the same. Because they are what they are.

Look at Burnley, doing okay, still from a shithole with a shit stadium and will never win anything. They'll never be a Leeds United or Nottingham Forest.

Existing in the Premiership means nothing.

 

[Ravi]

Leicester won the Premier League a few short years ago. They are now an established top ten Premier League club.

When was the last time Forest did anything of note beyond being a tin pot lower league football club.

As has been noted before, we have some delusional fans who exist in a historical bubble.

 

[Ravi]

Of course.

Same can be said of Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Aston Villa, West Brom, Birmingham...

They could spend the next ten years a league higher and still be the same. Because they are what they are.

Look at Burnley, doing okay, still from a shithole with a shit stadium and will never win anything. They'll never be a Leeds United or Nottingham Forest.

Existing in the Premiership means nothing.

So why do Burnley have more points than Forest in the all time top division league table?

You’re doing what lots of fans do which is thinking that the league tables when you started watching football are fixed in time. They aren’t.

 

[Ashley]

So why do Burnley have more points than Forest in the all time top division league table?

You’re doing what lots of fans do which is thinking that the league tables when you started watching football are fixed in time. They aren’t.

56 out of 120 seasons in the top flight, twice Champions of England and twice runners up too. Not as many honours as the likes of Leeds or Forest, but I hardly think they are a tinpot club either and have certainly been more successful than Forest and Leeds in recent years.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Of course.

Same can be said of Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Aston Villa, West Brom, Birmingham...

They could spend the next ten years a league higher and still be the same. Because they are what they are.

Look at Burnley, doing okay, still from a shithole with a shit stadium and will never win anything. They'll never be a Leeds United or Nottingham Forest.

Existing in the Premiership means nothing.

Agreed, when we get to that purgatory league above come next May, it'll be just like the stagnation and mediocrity we've endured in this league albeit with opposing and visiting better clubs.

 

[siforest65]

Oh tough choice Raza, would you rather get sucked off by your Dad or go down on your Mam?

Post that on the Derby forum and you would probably get some genuine answers.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

So why do Burnley have more points than Forest in the all time top division league table?

You’re doing what lots of fans do which is thinking that the league tables when you started watching football are fixed in time. They aren’t.

No I'm not Ravi, I'm looking at the pattern that has existed for at least sixty years and know normality will always resume. Even more so since the introduction of the PL.

Yes there'll always be the odd year were a Leicester City or a Blackburn Rovers will win the title and then it goes back to normal. There'll always be clubs like Burnley and Watford that go up and down as well. It's all there written down in the history books, the only two clubs to break the trend up to yet has been Man City and Chelsea.

My point was I don't envy these clubs that have a stint in the PL, like I'm sure fans of Leeds United don't and who have also spent some time out of the PL.

The best thing that could happen imo is the usual top six leave and join a European Super League.

 

[Rockabilly]

Post that on the Derby forum and you would probably get some genuine answers.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

Leicester won the Premier League a few short years ago. They are now an established top ten Premier League club.

When was the last time Forest did anything of note beyond being a tin pot lower league football club.

As has been noted before, we have some delusional fans who exist in a historical bubble.

You said Stoke City were an established premier league club a few years ago

The established premier league clubs are: Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man City and Everton.
The rest are interchangeable as has been proved over the last five years alone. From 7th down to 20th we've played every one of them clubs at championship level in the last five years except for Everton and West Ham.

Do you get my point?

 

[Ravi]

No I'm not Ravi, I'm looking at the pattern that has existed for at least sixty years and know normality will always resume. Even more so since the introduction of the PL.

Yes there'll always be the odd year were a Leicester City or a Blackburn Rovers will win the title and then it goes back to normal. There'll always be clubs like Burnley and Watford that go up and down as well. It's all there written down in the history books, the only two clubs to break the trend up to yet has been Man City and Chelsea.

My point was I don't envy these clubs that have a stint in the PL, like I'm sure fans of Leeds United don't and who have also spent some time out of the PL.

The best thing that could happen imo is the usual top six leave and join a European Super League.

We are one of those clubs "like a Leicester or a Blackburn" who win a title and then it goes back to normal. My point was it's more "normal" for Burnley to be in the top division than it is for us to be there.

I never buy this argument when people claim they actually prefer being an irrelevant lower league club. Those same fans would be celebrating along with everyone else if we ever won anything again.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

We are one of those clubs "like a Leicester or a Blackburn" who win a title and then it goes back to normal. My point was it's more "normal" for Burnley to be in the top division than it is for us to be there.

I never buy this argument when people claim they actually prefer being an irrelevant lower league club. Those same fans would be celebrating along with everyone else if we ever won anything again.

I know mate and I don't want to be an irrelevant lower league club but back to what started this discussion, at the same time I'm not going to piss my pants if Derby get promoted. They'll all be back at some point or other.

 

[Ravi]

You said Stoke City were an established premier league club a few years ago

The established premier league clubs are: Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man City and Everton.
The rest are interchangeable as has been proved over the last five years alone. From 7th down to 20th we've played every one of them clubs at championship level in the last five years except for Everton and West Ham.

Do you get my point?

I get that there are a core group of big clubs, but we have become a smaller and smaller club with every passing year since I began watching. And yes, Stoke are more established Premier League club than we are, and will more than likely be back much sooner than us too. Parachute payments give most clubs a big advantage.

 

[Francis Benali (on loan)]

Derby went two divisions above us in 2007. Parity seemed further away than ever at that point. It took 12 months.

They seem to gravitate back to each other. Leicester too. The three clubs are of similar stature in general.

And when a neighbour does something good, tends to give you a bit of focus.

 

[Ravi]

I know mate and I don't want to be an irrelevant lower league club but back to what started this discussion, at the same time I'm not going to piss my pants if Derby get promoted. They'll all be back at some point or other.

Derby are also a more established Premier League club than we are. If they go up there's no telling how long they'll stay there, and if they come down they will be far more likely to get back up again than a club who've been outside the top flight for two decades.

 

[Beardo7]

Getting promoted means nothing - there are plenty of examples of teams that have gone up and come back down in a worse state - look at Fulham went up playing good football spunked £100m and came straight back down and will be in a worse state than when they went up.

Does anyone think Mad Mel wouldn’t get a rock on and start throwing the cash around playing real life Football Manager? Buying a host of over priced/overrated £25-£30 mil mercenaries?

Or would they do a Burnley and go up not go mad and if they come back down they will be in a much stronger position to keep building - I doubt it.

And the people that say they they don’t want us to go up must be mad. I want my team to be as successful as possible and sadly for Forest at this moment in time that means playing at the highest level in the country against the best teams in the country. We haven’t been in the PL for 21 years now (as of next season) - there are Forest fans out there who have been born, Passed their GCSE’s, A Levels and graduated from Uni who haven’t seen us play in it! I’m 36 and only just about remember us playing in it!

I live and work in Derby and if they go up it will be unbearable. I’ve had my desk decorated enough times over the last few years! (Mind if they get 10 points it would be hilarious!)


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[Ravi]

Since the revenue from tv went through the roof, a season or more in the Premier League significantly increases a club’s chances of being promoted again within the period covered by parachute payments.

Last season 2017-18 2 parachute clubs, Fulham and Cardiff were promoted.
In season 2016-17 2 parachute clubs, Newcastle and Brighton were promoted.
In 2015-16 2 parachute clubs, Burnley and Hull were promoted.

This season we have so far seen one parachute team promoted. Two others, Villa and WBA are in the play offs.

If Leeds or Derby are promoted they will be bucking the trend


People joke about Premier League 2, but it is happening before our eyes.


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[RedTe]

Of course.

Same can be said of Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Aston Villa, West Brom, Birmingham...

How could anybody justify saying Birmingham are a bigger club than Leicester?

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. I'd love to hear anyone try and justify that. 1 Premier League title >>> 1 League Cup win (a decade ago).

 

[Bryn Gunn]

Derby are also a more established Premier League club than we are. If they go up there's no telling how long they'll stay there, and if they come down they will be far more likely to get back up again than a club who've been outside the top flight for two decades.

Coventry City are more of an established premier league club than us. Does it mean anything? It doesn't to me and I doubt it does to anyone else on here.

 

[Strummer]

People joke about Premier League 2, but it is happening before our eyes.

It is.

But more so, there’s another division at the very top, where you have the six or so top clubs in almost their own mini-League fighting over the European places, then everyone else is basically making up the numbers.

And those teams finishing from probably 10th downwards are completely interchangeable with the top dozen clubs in the Championship.

 

[Ravi]

Coventry City are more of an established premier league club than us. Does it mean anything? It doesn't to me and I doubt it does to anyone else on here.

No it doesn’t, but they’re a good counter to the argument that if we went up we’d just be making up the numbers. Coventry are the epitome of a club who made up the numbers, 34 years in the top flight and won one FA Cup. I’m sure their fans would swap with where they are now.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

No it doesn’t, but they’re a good counter to the argument that if we went up we’d just be making up the numbers. Coventry are the epitome of a club who made up the numbers, 34 years in the top flight and won one FA Cup. I’m sure their fans would swap with where they are now.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject mate.

I just don't understand why it's classed as being successful existing in the Premiership for a few years. What do teams do these days, book the open top bus if they finish above 18th?
Seems a bit pathetic that that is what it's become.

 

[gedlingred]

History is only important if you learn from it.

We just do the same thing and expect a different outcome.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

How could anybody justify saying Birmingham are a bigger club than Leicester?

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. I'd love to hear anyone try and justify that. 1 Premier League title >>> 1 League Cup win (a decade ago).

Potentially they are and always have been. You are just measuring it on honours, they've spent more time in the top flight and have a larger fan base.

 

[Forestjones]

So why do Burnley have more points than Forest in the all time top division league table?

You’re doing what lots of fans do which is thinking that the league tables when you started watching football are fixed in time. They aren’t.

I do that a lot. To me, Burnley, Huddersfield, Coventry, Blackpool, and us are 1st division and Brentford are 4th. Having said that, Villa were 3rd division and actually finished below Halifax.

 

[Francis Benali (on loan)]

People joke about Premier League 2, but it is happening before our eyes.


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7th - 20th