Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[YouReds43]

5.8 On 31 March 2023, Forest provided the Premier League with its PSR Calculation based on a projected league position of 12th at the end of the 2022/23 season. This PSR Calculation also included the Covid Add-Back of £12,178,000 for FY22. Forest was also looking to add-back the promotion costs of c. £20m that it had incurred (largely in the form of contractual bonuses to its playing squad and the coaches) when it secured promotion to the Premier League.
5.9 On 2 June 2023, the Premier League informed Forest, in relation to its PSR Calculation for the2022/23 season, inter alia that: it would only allow a Covid Add-Back of £2.5m for FY22, not the entire £12,178,000 claimed and it would not allow Forest to claim any allowances for costs linked to promotion from the EFL Championship

 

[Erik]

We deserve a 2 point penalty just for thinking we'd finish 12th let alone putting it in the accounts.

 

[YouReds43]

We deserve a 2 point penalty just for thinking we'd finish 12th let alone putting it in the accounts.

We were 1pt behind 12th with a game in hand when that was submitted?

 

[Robertson]

We were 1pt behind 12th with a game in hand when that was submitted?

Pfft. Facts!

 

[Notcher]

Wow, I really appreciate your taking the time to post all that.

I don't want to derail the thread, I was mainly after the context of your earlier posts.

But what you say is incredibly accurate without your having known any of the details.

We're London-based, making high-end furniture, mostly in metal. Given the nature of the work, most of the techicians, myself included, have either engineering or fine-arts based backgrounds and - especially on the arts side - the workforce has historically been overwhelmingly white British/European (you know, middle-class kids doing MA's in sculpture - I'm one of the exceptions having a more "modest" background).

The owners have taken more of a backseat since acquiring a new CEO (to the extent that former management now have to formally go through the CEO to reach the owners). The old HR Director has gone and been replaced and, perhaps coincidentally given your post, around 80+% of the new recruits in management positions, including HR, have a South Asian background.

I don't have a problem with that, in itself, but whereas before, the culture, including management, was firmly wedded to the "artisanal" nature of our products, the systems that have been put in place since the CEO's arrival are more appropriate to mass-production, rather than bespoke.

Productivity is down around 50%, largely due to awkwardness of new systems and procedures. Staff turnover among technicians is up, to the extent that the "old guard," myself included, spend more of our time training the fresh recruits. Correspondingly, there's been a stress on hiring younger, less experienced staff. Personally, I really enjoy training people - most of us do - but morale among even our longest serving and most knowledgeable technicians is in the toilet.

I know, from speaking to some of the remaining management, that the attitude amongst the new upper-management to the increased turnover at all levels, is largely indifferent. Like they simply expect to weather the storm.

Personally, I fail to see how anyone can successfully implement changes to how a company operates whilst simultaneously shedding much of it's existing expertise. But, again, I don't know anything about management. A couple of years ago, I would have recommended it to any prospective employee but, sadly, I'm wondering how much longer I can stay there myself ...

Anyhow, apologies for temporary derailing and, again, many thanks for taking the time to post.

Unfortunately there's nothing coincidental about it, that's why I knew without knowing. Much of the success of my career with staff has come from understanding the psychological and social dynamics (which incidentally I learned from a former coach and mentor at Forest). Behaviour is largely patterns, once you understand patterns of behaviour and the next step of each behaviour you're always ahead. I'm neither a psychic or prophet, I'm just using history and behavioural data to predict the inevitable outcomes.

What I've seen play out is the same patterns over years, nothing much changes in that although there has been this rapid acceleration of identity politics which is bourne out from our universities. Institutions which I used to admire but now loathe for the putrid bile and indoctrination of our next generation of leaders and thinkers.

I first saw the signs of this around 2009 which is when I started falling out with HR departments. The demand for excellence is down and has been replaced with a demand for equality or outcome and inclusion at any cost which is usually at cost to the company.

I don't care colour, sex or ethnicity anybody is as long as they are they categorically the best person for the job, sometimes that means that a particular sex or a particular ethnic characteristic is prevalent in a particular area, and what this new generation don't understand or don't like or don't want to admit, that's absolutely fine, because guess what?.... Different sexes, cultures etc have different strengths and skillsets.

Unfortunately it sounds like you're company has drifted off to the point of no return, unless they bring back an old sea captain who can turn the ship around. Until that leadership right at the very top changes and does a 180 it's not coming back, riding it out it's unlikely to be fruitful or happy.

 

[IdiotTricky]

Unfortunately there's nothing coincidental about it, that's why I knew without knowing. Much of the success of my career with staff has come from understanding the psychological and social dynamics (which incidentally I learned from a former coach and mentor at Forest). Behaviour is largely patterns, once you understand patterns of behaviour and the next step of each behaviour you're always ahead. I'm neither a psychic or prophet, I'm just using history and behavioural data to predict the inevitable outcomes.

What I've seen play out is the same patterns over years, nothing much changes in that although there has been this rapid acceleration of identity politics which is bourne out from our universities. Institutions which I used to admire but now loathe for the putrid bile and indoctrination of our next generation of leaders and thinkers.

I first saw the signs of this around 2009 which is when I started falling out with HR departments. The demand for excellence is down and has been replaced with a demand for equality or outcome and inclusion at any cost which is usually at cost to the company.

I don't care colour, sex or ethnicity anybody is as long as they are they categorically the best person for the job, sometimes that means that a particular sex or a particular ethnic characteristic is prevalent in a particular area, and what this new generation don't understand or don't like or don't want to admit, that's absolutely fine, because guess what?.... Different sexes, cultures etc have different strengths and skillsets.

Unfortunately it sounds like you're company has drifted off to the point of no return, unless they bring back an old sea captain who can turn the ship around. Until that leadership right at the very top changes and does a 180 it's not coming back, riding it out it's unlikely to be fruitful or happy.

Interesting stuff. Again, thanks for taking the time!

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

We were 1pt behind 12th with a game in hand when that was submitted?

It is very telling just how much Steve Cooper overachieving raised the bar with expectancy.

 

[Strummer]

It is very telling just how much Steve Cooper overachieving raised the bar with expectancy Ambition.

More accurate.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

More accurate.

Joao Carvalho likes this post!

 

[Robertson]

We knew we’d f**ked up by a few million so decided to try and squeak through on the projection with an over-optimistic final league position. Then the PL decided to f*** us for another £30m to really stick the knife in.

 

[YouReds43]

We knew we’d f**ked up by a few million so decided to try and squeak through on the projection with an over-optimistic final league position. Then the PL decided to f*** us for another £30m to really stick the knife in.

Reading back the report, We gave EFL information of the Covid Add back of 12.2m on 1st March 2022, but nothing about promotion bonuses obviously because we hadn't been promoted or remotely close at that stage. Why haven't the EFL checked our accounts for that season, seems its been an absolute mess since promotion.

 

[Robertson]

Reading back the report, We gave EFL information of the Covid Add back of 12.2m on 1st March 2022, but nothing about promotion bonuses obviously because we hadn't been promoted or remotely close at that stage. Why haven't the EFL checked our accounts for that season, seems its been an absolute mess since promotion.

It’s all a shambles really isn’t it? I don’t for a minute claim our innocence here, but I just don’t see us as being any ‘more’ guilty in any kind of moral sense than a half-dozen other clubs (at the very least).

 

[YouReds43]

It’s all a shambles really isn’t it? I don’t for a minute claim our innocence here, but I just don’t see us as being any ‘more’ guilty in any kind of moral sense than a half-dozen other clubs (at the very least).

For sure we ain't innocent, but the PL are as guilty as us in all of this. The Commission said they had sympathy for the late notice the PL gave to us over the costs.

 

[Dino]

Noble.

My employer prefers the motivational "If you don't like it, leave." approach.

(Yes, that was our CEO on an all hands call)

Edit: To finish this story, our attrition rate since then is sitting around 60%, so people took him up on that offer.

I used to work for a large, national utility a few years ago which had a similar but more direct approach to motivation: "If you don't like it you can f--- off down the road". That mindset was pervasive throughout the "management" of the company.

I've also worked in the public sector more recently and remember an all-staff call (the department employed c.3,000, about 800 were on the call) where the top "manager" in the department (who was ex-McKinsey) came out with the same line when pressed on pay: "if you don't like it you can always leave". She's since been moved on, but so much for our enlightened times.

 

[Strummer]

Anyone who works as a „Manager“ who has previously worked for any of the big „Management Consultancies“ like Gartner, McKinsey or Boston Consulting or the like, I’ve generally found to be a useless idiot.

See also Mariana Mazzucato‘s excellent book, The Big Con.

I am always minded of the words of Charles Wang, the billionaire former chairman of software giant Computer Associates. He was once asked to assess the quality of Gartner's researchers, to which he replied: „I want to choose my words carefully here, so I'm not misunderstood," he said „They're a bunch of f***ing idiots."

 

[Dino]

Anyone who works as a „Manager“ who has previously worked for any of the big „Management Consultancies“ like Gartner, McKinsey or Boston Consulting or the like, I’ve generally found to be a useless idiot.

See also Mariana Mazzucato‘s excellent book, The Big Con.

I am always minded of the words of Charles Wang, the billionaire former chairman of software giant Computer Associates. He was once asked to assess the quality of Gartner's researchers, to which he replied: „I want to choose my words carefully here, so I'm not misunderstood," he said „They're a bunch of f***ing idiots."

She was at director level McKinsey so not one of the hoi polloi but was always referred to as the top "manager".

Agree with the sentiment re consultants - I've worked with a few from KPMG, PWC, Deloitte etc. over the years, some of them have been OK but the majority were dickheads.

 

[Alan Akbah]

She was at director level McKinsey so not one of the hoi polloi but was always referred to as the top "manager".

Agree with the sentiment re consultants - I've worked with a few from KPMG, PWC, Deloitte etc. over the years, some of them have been OK but the majority were dickheads.

When I was working for Hewlett Packard we had one of these parasites die suddenly on a government client site. I bet they still got his timesheet in to claim a full day.

 

[Joe Baker's Dog]

5.8 On 31 March 2023, Forest provided the Premier League with its PSR Calculation based on a projected league position of 12th at the end of the 2022/23 season. This PSR Calculation also included the Covid Add-Back of £12,178,000 for FY22. Forest was also looking to add-back the promotion costs of c. £20m that it had incurred (largely in the form of contractual bonuses to its playing squad and the coaches) when it secured promotion to the Premier League.
5.9 On 2 June 2023, the Premier League informed Forest, in relation to its PSR Calculation for the2022/23 season, inter alia that: it would only allow a Covid Add-Back of £2.5m for FY22, not the entire £12,178,000 claimed and it would not allow Forest to claim any allowances for costs linked to promotion from the EFL Championship

This was highlighted by the forensic accountant working with the Fans Trust. The PL disallowed a substantial amount at a very late date giving Forest no time to raise funds to cover it. The PL should be hung from the nearest tree for that alone.

 

[YouReds43]

This was highlighted by the forensic accountant working with the Fans Trust. The PL disallowed a substantial amount at a very late date giving Forest no time to raise funds to cover it. The PL should be hung from the nearest tree for that alone.

Let's hope the appeals board see some sense but I don't think it is likely.

 

[Battered Sausage]

This was highlighted by the forensic accountant working with the Fans Trust. The PL disallowed a substantial amount at a very late date giving Forest no time to raise funds to cover it. The PL should be hung from the nearest tree for that alone.

How in the name of f*** is this being allowed to happen?

 

[Otis Redding]

This was highlighted by the forensic accountant working with the Fans Trust. The PL disallowed a substantial amount at a very late date giving Forest no time to raise funds to cover it. The PL should be hung from the nearest tree for that alone.

That bloke should be put forward to help fight our case in the appeal Joe. I thought he put across his criticque of the commission's report impressively.

 

[Strummer]

How in the name of f*** is this being allowed to happen?

Because Forest are a „small club“.

 

[chaospunx]

What's the reason we can't just go straight to C.A.S with this I have no real idea what I'm talking about but only going on the time Valentino rossi kicked marc marquez off his bike in motogp and got points deduction he took it to C.A.S and his points were reinstated instantly because he went to them pending there take on it.
Granted I'm sure there is a reason we can't but I don't personally know it

 

[Rubics]

Consultants - borrow your watch and then charge you to tell the time! Wankers!
Auditors - parasites, stealing a living!
HR - cloud cuckoo land!
H and S - a necessary evil to protect folks from their own stupidity
Online courses to cover the businesses arse - complete waste of time and money, still annoys me that I got a bollocking when they found out my work wife had been competing mine for 3 years whist I got on with making the pricks money!
7 years since I though sod it, I’m going to work for myself. Miss the new car every 3 years but nothing else of the corporate BS life!
rant over - time for a beer!

 

[ozthecoz]

"Sky News are reporting 777 Partners have pushed back their target date for buying Everton to the end of next month and requested an extension to the repayment of a £160m loan related to its new stadium."

or should it read

777 haven't got the money
or
777 are waiting to see what league the toffees are in before putting their cash in