Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[PlayedOnGrass]

So according to Percy we need to raise around £30m in profit before July to avoid another breach next season.
You could guess the points deduction we would receive for a second offence would probably be 10+.
The club are confident they can do it without selling any big assets but then again they were confident of no charge previously...this is something we can not mess up again.

Have you not been following
The max is 8 because it is 9 for admin.
The EPL/IC have noted that we are improving our sustainability
The report said
3 points for breaching
3 points for serious breach
Upto 2 more for aggravating
Minus points for mitigation/cooperation - 2 in our case
Forest calculation
3+3+0-2=4

Why would it be any different next time if our breach is less - which it is?

Also our rolling 3 year losses are
Ending June 2023 - £96m (£16m/£46m/£34m) against £61m allowed
Projected June 2024 - £96m (£46m/£34m/£16m) against £83m allowed
Allowance June 2025 - ???? (£34m/£16m/???) against £105m allowance
In theory we can lose £65m next season although this would be a crazy decision as this will stay in the rolling 3 years for the following 2 years

 

[REDDERS78]

In fairness, given that an independent commission were very critical of Forest for their inability to provide documentation because everything seemed to be done verbally and not documented it is not unreasonable to suggest that we are not as well run as we could be.

There seems to be no internal audit trail on why decisions are made.

Marinakis seems to run Forest in the same way Boris Johnson ran his government. Perhaps without the backhanders and sleaze though.

Indeed, nobody said we couldn't be run better though, I've never disputed that and it wasn't really the point I was making. We could be run better, a phrase that's repeated itself millions of times in thread, we all know!

My question was about reverting to type, because we are currently in the Prem having spend 23 years out of it, so on the field, there is no type is there? Unless we go back 25 years.

Call me old fashioned, but the reason I love the game is because of the actual football, I like going to watch the game being played. I can appreciate that this is now a mere insignificance in the grand scheme of things because for some, its all about PSR,FFP, VAR, refs, the owners and LBGTBQRST or anything else that's something other than the actual game.

My main concern is how we are playing and where we are at, I currently see us under performing in the Premier League, not great but I've waited a long time for for us to give it a go. Like I say, I'm old fashioned like that.

You reds

 

[Captain Sinister]

Mangala deal will be made permanent for 25m end of season, that represents a profit of 18m. So We aren’t under pressure to sell a big player.
stay up and we can offer Wood a new contract that would reduce our amortisation costs from 15 to 7.5m.
That is already a 25m profit and we are then probably back in line with rules

A sale of Murillo probably funds new signings

Why is everyone so keen to sell one of the very few signngs we have made who shows genuine world class potential?
I recognise Brighton have progressed through selling their finest players, but they have a track record of finding equally talented replacements, or producing them through their Academy.
Forest have a history of recruiting poorly, with the odd gem, and I see little potential for us being able to find another with the potential of Murillo.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Have you not been following
The max is 8 because it is 9 for admin.
The EPL/IC have noted that we are improving our sustainability
The report said
3 points for breaching
3 points for serious breach
Upto 2 more for aggravating
Minus points for mitigation/cooperation - 2 in our case
Forest calculation
3+3+0-2=4

Why would it be any different next time if our breach is less - which it is?

I think tomw94’s point about not messing up again is valid though.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Do you mean the EPL wanting Forest’s points deduction INCREASED,Captain?
If so,where is this appearing?

I've just noticed my missing key word!
I have read it on several FaceBook groups that the EPL is wanting to appeal the leniency of our points deduction, first appearing in The sun - never a fake story in that fine upstanding news paper.
That is why I ask, is it media/social media bollox, or is it the EPL firing a warning shot across Marinakis's bows to stave off an appeal by Forest?

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Indeed, nobody said we couldn't be run better though, I've never disputed that and it wasn't really the point I was making. We could be run better, a phrase that's repeated itself millions of times in thread, we all know!

My question was about reverting to type, because we are currently in the Prem having spend 23 years out of it, so on the field, there is no type is there? Unless we go back 25 years.

Call me old fashioned, but the reason I love the game is because of the actual football, I like going to watch the game being played. I can appreciate that this is now a mere insignificance in the grand scheme of things because for some, its all about PSR,FFP, VAR, refs, the owners and LBGTBQRST or anything else that's something other than the actual game.

My main concern is how we are playing and where we are at, I currently see us under performing in the Premier League, not great but I've waited a long time for for us to give it a go. Like I say, I'm old fashioned like that.

You reds

To revert to type you had to have broken with the mold in the first place. Hence us being in the premier league and now looking like we are going backwards. I acknowledged that we had changed by making the point of reverting to type if you know what I mean.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Why is everyone so keen to sell one of the very few signngs we have made who shows genuine world class potential?
I recognise Brighton have progressed through selling their finest players, but they have a track record of finding equally talented replacements, or producing them through their Academy.
Forest have a history of recruiting poorly, with the odd gem, and I see little potential for us being able to find another with the potential of Murillo.

We don't have a choice because of the incompetency of the board and now we are gonna be taken advantage of. Even our crap players are gonna be lowballed its a shitshow of a situation manufactured entirely by ourselves.

 

[Cloughie1975]

I've just noticed my missing key word!
I have read it on several FaceBook groups that the EPL is wanting to appeal the leniency of our points deduction, first appearing in The sun - never a fake story in that fine upstanding news paper.
That is why I ask, is it media/social media bollox, or is it the EPL firing a warning shot across Marinakis's bows to stave off an appeal by Forest?

Possibly-I can’t imagine the EPL want Forest to appeal.
I still think both parties will close the matter now (probably after a bit more posturing!).

 

[Lord Wazzock]

It is....but....maybe the current setup we can try buying good players for less, like Mangala too? Rather than worse for more like Sangare?

And, instead of taking designer Instagram punts like Lingard, we use our Prem status to could grab some genuine young talent from other clubs having to sell, and develop them over time into quality first team ones, like we did BJ?

You know...an actual long term plan...instead of impulsively panic buying and then sacking everyone beneath you when the problems and mess that causes threaten to relegate you.

Just a thought.

There's every possibility that Sangare will show his worth. It took Awoniyi, Mangala and Neco time to get to the required levels. I don't disagree that the club can't be run better.

However, as someone who is 50+ I can remember football when it had a much more level playing field. The modern premier league is a joke where the best we can hope for is becoming a Brighton or Brentford. Both of those clubs are moving backwards this year, Brentford aren't far away from relegation.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

I think tomw94’s point about not messing up again is valid though.

Fully agree - that is why I only highlighted the section I did

 

[ARedChester]

Marinakis seems to run Forest in the same way Boris Johnson ran his government. Perhaps without the backhanders and sleaze though.

So pretty well then in comparison to what Labour could conjure up

 

[Red Dog in a Forest]

Mcguire seems fairly certain that this is after the BJ cash has been taken into account. Another player has to be sacrificed to the higher football gods.

I think there are certain factors that might help reduce that figure. Mainly on when the projected losses were provided…was this before January, in January, or after the transfer window?

Or, are these up to date figures produced at the time of the appeal and subsequent report?

Was the Mangala loan fee and likely sale included in the figures? 10-20m

Were the Loans, OTBs and Sales of other players (in the window) included in the projected losses?

Were the wages of those players no longer at the club included in the projected losses? 5m.

Do the projected losses include the potential purchases of Montiel, Origi, Ribeiro and Tavares? 45-50m.

Do the projected losses include televised games?

Additionally, could we see EM doing us another favour and purchase Richards, Worrall and Vlachula before the season end?

So many questions (without answers) there that it’s not worth worrying about imo.

 

[Quntib Hollox]

Is it feasible that the club could put in an appeal to get the promotion bonuses/covid losses reassessed so that our breach level is reduced? Even if we don’t get any points back if we only had to find say £10-15M by the end of June this would take the pressure off selling our crown jewels for peanuts.

 

[Captain Sinister]

I think there are certain factors that might help reduce that figure. Mainly on when the projected losses were provided…was this before January, in January, or after the transfer window?

Or, are these up to date figures produced at the time of the appeal and subsequent report?

Was the Mangala loan fee and likely sale included in the figures? 10-20m

Were the Loans, OTBs and Sales of other players (in the window) included in the projected losses?

Were the wages of those players no longer at the club included in the projected losses? 5m.

Do the projected losses include the potential purchases of Montiel, Origi, Ribeiro and Tavares? 45-50m.

Do the projected losses include televised games?

Additionally, could we see EM doing us another favour and purchase Richards, Worrall and Vlachula before the season end?

So many questions (without answers) there that it’s not worth worrying about imo.

As before the Points Deduction was announced and everything was speculation (would it be 10 or 0 points deducted, or any number in between?), we are again in the realm of speculation with no reliable information on the financial outcome (call it "T") for this season, but we do have "T-1" and "T-2" financial information, and knowing that we can calculate the required outturn for "T". also, I think the owner is allowed to write off a capped amount of loans, which contribute to the profitability calculation.

 

[Robertson]

Is it feasible that the club could put in an appeal to get the promotion bonuses/covid losses reassessed so that our breach level is reduced? Even if we don’t get any points back if we only had to find say £10-15M by the end of June this would take the pressure off selling our crown jewels for peanuts.

I’d certainly want to be seeing what other clubs have successfully claimed for covid losses at least. Do we not have a right to an explanation there?

 

[Captain Sinister]

I’d certainly want to be seeing what other clubs have successfully claimed for covid losses at least. Do we not have a right to an explanation there?

We are merely the fans.
Since when did the Fans have any rights?
I am waiting, with baited breath, to see what will happen to season ticket prices for next season.
Nostradamus did predict "In the year of our Lord 2024, for ye football season 2024-25, the rich greek shallt pump up ye season ticket prices at ye Olde City Ground by another 15% to placate the angry EPL Gods".
You have to look hard for that one among his hundreds of predictions... but it is there on page 94.

 

[Robertson]

We are merely the fans.
Since when did the Fans have any rights?
I am waiting, with baited breath, to see what will happen to season ticket prices for next season.
Nostradamus did predict "In the year of our Lord 2024, for ye football season 2024-25, the rich greek shallt pump up ye season ticket prices at ye Olde City Ground by another 15% to placate the angry EPL Gods".
You have to look hard for that one among his hundreds of predictions... but it is there on page 94.

I didn’t mean we the fans, I meant ‘we’ the whoever is running the club.

But since you mention it, yes I do think all this information should be in the public domain as well.

A nice table with all the information on wages, sales, purchases, bonuses, income, loss write offs, etc etc for all 20 clubs on the premier league website should do it.

 

[Dr Sheldon Cooper]

And then there's this prick. Another whining Everton fuckwit.
Your team got more points because you didn't co-operate and supplied misleading and inaccurate information. Suck it up and deal with it.

Nottingham Forest have 'side deal' with Premier League - Wyness

Football Insider has been told by Keith Wyness that Nottingham Forest may have a "side deal" with the Premier League preventing an appeal.

www.footballinsider247.com

 

[atrophy]

Mangala deal will be made permanent for 25m end of season, that represents a profit of 18m. So We aren’t under pressure to sell a big player.
stay up and we can offer Wood a new contract that would reduce our amortisation costs from 15 to 7.5m.
That is already a 25m profit and we are then probably back in line with rules

A sale of Murillo probably funds new signings

I keep seeing you repeat the amortisation of Woods can be changed. I'm far from an expert on these things which is why I frequent this forum, to learn from the knowledge of the people on here (that and here for the squirrel pics too!), but I was under the impression you can only amortise a players cost over his initial contract?

Surely any subsequent extended contracts are a £0 cost for amortisation and only wage costs. Otherwise you'd have to go back and alter previous years accounts, and you can't guarantee extension at the original outset.

 

[Robertson]

I keep seeing you repeat the amortisation of Woods can be changed. I'm far from an expert on these things which is why I frequent this forum, to learn from the knowledge of the people on here (that and here for the squirrel pics too!), but I was under the impression you can only amortise a players cost over his initial contract?

Surely any subsequent extended contracts are a £0 cost for amortisation and only wage costs. Otherwise you'd have to go back and alter previous years accounts, and you can't guarantee extension at the original outset.

So I think you can extend a players contract and spread out the remaining amortisation amount over the duration of a new contract.

E.g. buy a player for £50m on a 5 year contract, then give another five year contract at the end of the third year. The remaining £20m amortised book amount would then be spread over the five years of the new contract.

In Wood’s case though if he signs a contract at the end of the season the remaining amortisation will be £0 I think, so it makes no difference. It’s not backdated as far as I’m aware.

 

[atrophy]

So I think you can extend a players contract and spread out the remaining amortisation amount over the duration of a new contract.

E.g. buy a player for £50m on a 5 year contract, then give another five year contract at the end of the third year. The remaining £20m amortised book amount would then be spread over the five years of the new contract.

In Wood’s case though if he signs a contract at the end of the season the remaining amortisation will be £0 I think, so it makes no difference. It’s not backdated as far as I’m aware.

That makes sense, happy to be corrected when my understanding is wrong, thanks!

 

[YouReds43]

So I think you can extend a players contract and spread out the remaining amortisation amount over the duration of a new contract.

E.g. buy a player for £50m on a 5 year contract, then give another five year contract at the end of the third year. The remaining £20m amortised book amount would then be spread over the five years of the new contract.

In Wood’s case though if he signs a contract at the end of the season the remaining amortisation will be £0 I think, so it makes no difference. It’s not backdated as far as I’m aware.

I was only going off the Price of Football, Mangala gives us 17/18m profit so we are only looking at maybe 5-10m to be found by 30th June

 

[Robertson]

That makes sense, happy to be corrected when my understanding is wrong, thanks!

Hey, I may be wrong too.

My source is Reddit so…

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/uzg0hx

 

[Robertson]

Nearly forgot to buy a Wolves ticket I was so busy waffling on about player amortisation on here. What have I become?

 

[Dynamo71]

Ok so Leicester are going to be charged.
Let’s be absolutely clear in this, the sporting advantage is for the 22/23 season. Let’s go back and deduct 4 points of Everton, Forest and Leicester to see what would have happened.
So Leicester Leeds and Southampton all get relegated but with Leeds above Leicester.
That’s it
So who got any advantage?
No one.
And then punish them all anyway?
Bollocks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk