Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[gurru991]

Could someone explain to me in layman's terms why your case was decided promptly while City's and Chelsea's will be decided next season?

They are completely different cases. Over spending is fairly cut & dried but Chelsea & Man C charges are much more complex

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I'd have hoped we could have drawn a line under this after the points deduction which seemed fairly reasonable.

But here we are now getting attention from some Brummies and the club still whinging.

All a bit pathetic. It's time for the club to knuckle down and win some football games, and don't break PSR next season.

 

[DanR]

I still haven't forgiven the Brummies for that Michael Branch goal, so let them moan. Can't understand a word of it anyway.

 

[bloodred]

Scrap PSR/FFP and replace it with a bond system. Teams with a rich benefactor could then lodge a bond on forecasted spend without jeopardizing the stability of the club

 

[Redemption]

Scrap PSR/FFP and replace it with a bond system. Teams with a rich benefactor could then lodge a bond on forecasted spend without jeopardizing the stability of the club

It would just be a free for all with the sovereign wealth funds, lodging bonds in their billions.

They would cause massive inflation in the player fees and wages.

For lesser wealthy people like EM, it would become more difficult to compete and more costly.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Scrap PSR/FFP and replace it with a bond system. Teams with a rich benefactor could then lodge a bond on forecasted spend without jeopardizing the stability of the club

All for the NFFC Bond system!

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Well Chelsea haven’t even been charged.

Probably due to various loopholes they were able to take advantage of but are now closed. And presumably the PL also just waved through all the various add-ons and write-offs in their accounts as legitimate. Rather than say, telling them they are £30m more in the hole than they had hoped with 28 days before the deadline.

Man City I think is either because it’s far too difficult and complicated to do anything about right now, or because the Premier League are shit scared of going against the nation state of the United Arab Emirates.

I read somewhere that they sold Mason Mount early July to Man Utd which was accounted for in the 22/23 accounts and that saved them this season but causes a problem for 23/24 accounts

 

[Flaggers]

City won't be charged any time soon because the UAE are putting pressure on the UK Government over some trade deals which they (UAE) suggest "might go south" if their beloved City are put under the spotlight

 

[Rubics]

It would just be a free for all with the sovereign wealth funds, lodging bonds in their billions.

They would cause massive inflation in the player fees and wages.

For lesser wealthy people like EM, it would become more difficult to compete and more costly.

Not if there was an overall cap that was the same for everyone in the league. You’d then find out how good Pep and Klop really are. The premier league is currently heading the same way as F1 - boring and predictable. Spend up to the cap but no debt can be placed on the club except for infrastructure.
Never happen because it risks the sky 6 values going up in flames if they get relegated.

 

[Redemption]

Not if there was an overall cap that was the same for everyone in the league. You’d then find out how good Pep and Klop really are. The premier league is currently heading the same way as F1 - boring and predictable. Spend up to the cap but no debt can be placed on the club except for infrastructure.
Never happen because it risks the sky 6 values going up in flames if they get relegated.

It also risks the English Premier League being the premier league of the planet.

Which I'm not against, btw. But I doubt EM would for vote for something like that, or most of the other clubs in the league or those vying to get in it.

 

[Ashley]

City won't be charged any time soon because the UAE are putting pressure on the UK Government over some trade deals which they (UAE) suggest "might go south" if their beloved City are put under the spotlight

Things like this is why I have no faith in the "Independent Football Regulator" making things better.

If you asked me to name something more corrupt than the Premier League and Financial "Fair" Play, the first word that springs to my mind is "politicians".

 

[Templeton]

Not if there was an overall cap that was the same for everyone in the league. You’d then find out how good Pep and Klop really are. The premier league is currently heading the same way as F1 - boring and predictable. Spend up to the cap but no debt can be placed on the club except for infrastructure.
Never happen because it risks the sky 6 values going up in flames if they get relegated.

It's funny but something like this that would possibly make the league more competitive would most likely get dragged through the courts as being anti-competitve because you are limiting the big teams spending.

 

[Rubics]

It also risks the English Premier League being the premier league of the planet.

Which I'm not against, btw. But I doubt EM would for vote for something like that, or most of the other clubs in the league or those vying to get in it.

Isn’t it already the defacto premier league of the planet which is what pisses the European clubs off? You wouldn't have to spend up to the cap - great scouting or youth development could get you competitive like now.

 

[Rubics]

It's funny but something like this that would possibly make the league more competitive would most likely get dragged through the courts as being anti-competitve because you are limiting the big teams spending.

Where as now the “small” clubs are limited by how much they spend - give them a taste of their own medicine!

 

[RedNorway]

Just make it a level playing field and introduce wage caps and transfer caps that are equal for all teams. Teams that qualify for Europe can be rewarded with higher caps according to the income from European competitions. And even better, set a restriction on how many players you can transfer per season. Teams can apply for extra places if players get long term injuries.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

I think this is the key point to the whole case really, and one I guess we might never know the real answer to.

Clearly within the football league the EFL rules allow for the promotion losses, now did someone at Forest just assume the same rules applied and didn't find out what the rules were under the EPL, or did the EPL move the goalposts right before the submission date.

One thing that we do have to consider for this is that earlier in this season the club got in a mess over the rules for the number of players it had out on loan, and at what age groups. If they can mess up simple admin like that, then you have to be concerned about their ability to deal with complex stuff like PSR.

The issue is that the rules around losses were open to interpretation for the promotion season. Some EFL rules were applied, namely the Covid approach, despite it being diametrically opposed to the EPL rules and detrimental to any club in the EFL at the time.
On the flip side promotion bonus', which the EFL allow to be discounted, have been included, again detrimental to a promoted club.

So the EFL loss position isn't really the true EFL loss position, nor is it the EPL position. It's a hybrid position that wasn't clearly documented, probably because it was made up just before submissions were due.

 

[RedRobbo]

Does anyone have the ‘league table’ of PL clubs Covid allowances against PSR. I’ve seen it somewhere ( may have been on here? ) with Everton top of the table on £152m(?) And we were allowed F… All being an EFL club at the time.

 

[jdthebrit]

A good post.
Before the Premier League got into full swing Forest were run by a committee who generally
showed little ambition before Brian Clough showed up-at which point they let him run the
show extremely successfully.
The advent of the Premier League coincided with the sad decline of Clough and it soon became
clear that Forest needed serious investment to compete.We have had various owners with
different approaches (all of whom have made some mistakes).
Wray/Scholar/Soar-Made a promising start by investing heavily to ensure promotion at the
first attempt but then pulled the plug and failed to back Dave Bassett.
1 out 10 (A disaster which meant 23 years in the wilderness).
Nigel Doughty-A genuine Forest fan but somewhat cautious.He saw the benefit of the academy.
5.5 out of 10.
The Al Hasawi’s-Intended to do well but lacked the knowledge and skills to run a relatively
big English football club.
4.5 out of 10.
EM-Highly ambitious and driven but can lack patience and sometimes resembles a bull in
a china shop.A shade more realism is perhaps required at times.Has backed the club
tremendously financially.
7 out of 10 (Could improve on this if he learns from mistakes).
Finally,I’m not sure if Clough and EM would have seen eye to eye!

You were right but for one thing. You scored Mr Doughty far too highly.
He treated our club like his personal train set and I harbor a grudge against him for that.

Sent from my moto g53 5G using Tapatalk

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

F

Does anyone have the ‘league table’ of PL clubs Covid allowances against PSR. I’ve seen it somewhere ( may have been on here? ) with Everton top of the table on £152m(?) And we were allowed F… All being an EFL club at the time.

We should recalculate all PSR positions on the EFL rules and submit that as our appeal. Pretty sure that would pus the majority over the limit.

 

[valspoodle]

If this football regulator gets finally put in place, judging by some of the crackpot ideas and weak control people like the water regulator and the other regulators of the utilities have demonstrated, we'll be the laughing stock of the football world.

 

[Timothy Pope]

The issue is that the rules around losses were open to interpretation for the promotion season. Some EFL rules were applied, namely the Covid approach, despite it being diametrically opposed to the EPL rules and detrimental to any club in the EFL at the time.
On the flip side promotion bonus', which the EFL allow to be discounted, have been included, again detrimental to a promoted club.

So the EFL loss position isn't really the true EFL loss position, nor is it the EPL position. It's a hybrid position that wasn't clearly documented, probably because it was made up just before submissions were due.

didn’t Kieran Maguire also think that promotion bonuses were allowable?
And he’s supposedly the football finance expert

 

[YouReds43]

didn’t Kieran Maguire also think that promotion bonuses were allowable?
And he’s supposedly the football finance expert

Yes he did say that, and I’m wondering why he isn’t replying to any Forest fans who keep asking about the promotion bonuses

 

[dr_horse]

I read somewhere that they sold Mason Mount early July to Man Utd which was accounted for in the 22/23 accounts and that saved them this season but causes a problem for 23/24 accounts

They've also sold hundreds of millions worth of academy/development talent, so combined with the long amortisation hack it makes sense there's no charge yet. Wouldn't be surprised if Gallagher went in the summer to help balance the books though.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

 

[Listen 'ere young man]

Could someone explain to me in layman's terms why your case was decided promptly while City's and Chelsea's will be decided next season?

It's complicated.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Listen 'ere young man]

if we somehow survive this season I’m taking a massive inflatable Marinakis to the last game.

Which one?

Too soon?

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk