Demise of Everton

[Strummer]

There was talk about other authorities getting involved in looking into whats happened there (such as a full HMRC Audit and Financial Crimes), but, I've seen Kieran Maguire say that there are serious concerns about whether or not the club will be solvent and able to proceed as a going concern at the end of the season.

Everton‘s accounts themselves, if you read the whole thing, states there are issues that might prevent the company from „continuing as a going concern“ in the short-to-medium term, which is why they’ve been desperately trying to get more investment (from the likes of 777).

 

[FLC]

Just been on their forum - actually starting to feel a bit sorry for them.
Nah, sod it - where’s Larry?

 

[Rockabilly]

Just been on their forum - actually starting to feel a bit sorry for them.
Nah, sod it - where’s Larry?

 

[Captain Sinister]

Everton‘s accounts themselves, if you read the whole thing, states there are issues that might prevent the company from „continuing as a going concern“ in the short-to-medium term, which is why they’ve been desperately trying to get more investment (from the likes of 777).

Instant 9-point deduction if they file for administration.
Poor sods...
Oh well!

 

[donny]

Everton‘s accounts themselves, if you read the whole thing, states there are issues that might prevent the company from „continuing as a going concern“ in the short-to-medium term, which is why they’ve been desperately trying to get more investment (from the likes of 777).

From the looks of an article in the FT today, theres pressure on 777 to invest in 'safer assets' from insurers of pension funds who have ties to them.

That could be quite nasty in the long run.

 

[Erik]

When we are wishing points penalties and punishments for Everton because of a repeat breach it may be worth remembering that it will be setting a precedent and we may possibly be the beneficiaries of such a precedence next season.

 

[Robertson]

When we are wishing points penalties and punishments for Everton because of a repeat breach it may be worth remembering that it will be setting a precedent and we may possibly be the beneficiaries of such a precedence next season.

The flipside to that though is not punishing Everton further also sets a precedent, and in that case why the hell would we scramble to sell players in June.

 

[Statto]

When we are wishing points penalties and punishments for Everton because of a repeat breach it may be worth remembering that it will be setting a precedent and we may possibly be the beneficiaries of such a precedence next season.

Surely any club with a big loss in more than one season is going to see that affect 2 years of a 3 year rolling period.

The thing is, yes it is double jeopardy, but that is exactly the point of a rolling period, the 3 years are over limit, and it's a different 3 year period.

If you have a big loss you then need to offset it with lean years which of course is difficult to do, because we've already seen how hard it is to build a squad and keep checked with other clubs who are doing the same.

If Everton's accounts for this 3 year rolling period are over they should be punished for it, even if they have already had a punishment for going over the last 3 year period (even if this punishment wasn't applied until this season) and even if the same losses mean they will be over next season's limit too. That's the rules and any club in that position should be punished. The main issue I suppose some have with it is that the breaches of the likes of Everton and us and maybe other clubs 1. may well have been brushed under the table without points deductions in previous years 2. are easier to punish compared to more complex and serious situations such as Chelsea and City, so it looks like Everton and us are being punished whilst City and Chelsea get away with it. Whether this will end up being the long term situation remains to be seen.

Personally I don't like the idea of 3 year rolling periods anyway. It disadvantages those who were not in the PL for a point of that period, such as Leics or Leeds if they go up this year, and the likes of Sheff Utd and Luton who have 2 and 3 years out of the PL limits, and can therefore spend less over a 3 year rolling period than someone like Everton, with whom they are expected to be competitive in the league. (And of course us). The PL and EFL should just have a 1 year limit depending on the division the club was competing in during that season, and if they're over they're punished for it, no rolling periods, no different limits, every club in the division has the same.

 

[Robertson]

If the figures quoted in the PL report are to be believed we’re either going to make around a £15m loss or roughly break even this season, depending on how much money from the Mangala deal has already been accounted for. Either way, we’re well within the limits for a single season, so for us it really would be a case of double jeopardy to get punished for our excesses in 2021/22 and 2022/23. The same can’t be said for Everton, as it seems their losses are only getting worse if anything.

I personally think we should do whatever it takes to get ourselves square by the end of this accounting period though.

 

[Statto]

If the figures quoted in the PL report are to be believed we’re either going to make around a £15m loss or roughly break even this season, depending on how much money from the Mangala deal has already been accounted for. Either way, we’re well within the limits for a single season, so for us it really would be a case of double jeopardy to get punished for our excesses in 2021/22 and 2022/23. The can’t be said for Everton, as it seems their losses are only getting worse if anything.

I personally think we should do whatever it takes to get ourselves square by the end of this accounting period though.

It wouldn't really be double jeopardy though.

We had the points docked because our losses were over limits for 3 year rolling period - 2022/3, 2021/2 & 2020/1 - two of those years we were in the CH and had a lower figure.
If our losses were over for the next 3 year rolling period - 2023/4, 2022/3 & 2021/2 - with one of those with CH limits, then that is a separate thing, and even if our losses for 2023/4 were 1/3 of the losses for a PL club over a 3 year period (assuming all years are in the PL) we'd still breach, potentially, depending on the losses allowed for 2021/2 & the scale of the losses during the 2022/3 period.
As such, there isn't really a concept of "limits for a single season" because you've breached if the whole period under consideration is over.

As for Mangala, or anyone else in that situation, then the amount which could be accounted for in this time period depends on when we get it - if they've paid a loan fee that will be in now, and if we sell him before the deadline it will count on this season's figures, if not it will be next. Don't forget also we have the deadline day deals, so the purchases of CHO, Sangare, Murillo, Omo, Vlach and the sale of Johnson, in this season's figures, as will anyone we buy or sell early in preseason.

 

[Strummer]

Personally I don't like the idea of 3 year rolling periods anyway. It disadvantages those who were not in the PL for a point of that period, such as Leics or Leeds if they go up this year, and the likes of Sheff Utd and Luton who have 2 and 3 years out of the PL limits, and can therefore spend less over a 3 year rolling period than someone like Everton, with whom they are expected to be competitive in the league.

You understand that this is absolutely deliberate, yes? To purposely disadvantage promoted clubs?

 

[Flaggers]

Administration at the PL level should carry a much higher penalty than 9 points.

I would suggest relegation and 20 points.

For any club guaranteed 9 points above safety e.g. now, what's the disincentive - stay in the PL and have a zero starting point on P&S calculations

 

[Statto]

You understand that this is absolutely deliberate, yes? To purposely disadvantage promoted clubs?

Well, it (and other things which have gone through on here) certainly do seem that way, whether or not they are intentional is a different question.

But, if one were in a cartel, one would seek to preserve ones status within it, and prevent others from getting in it easily.

Thing is, now we're in the PL, we'd surely be interested in doing exactly the same thing, given that promoted clubs are usually likely to be our closest rivals for relegation. It is interesting that last season was the first time in a while all 3 promoted sides had stayed up, which meant 3 established cartel members went out.

 

[Robertson]

t wouldn't really be double jeopardy though.

Mostly agree. I just think if Everton get away with that excuse, we certainly should be able to. I doubt they will however. Let’s wait and see.

 

[Statto]

Mostly agree. I just think if Everton get away with that excuse, we certainly should be able to. I doubt they will however. Let’s wait and see.

Of course. If Everton then say they can't be penalised for a loss in a single season during subsequent rolling periods, that surely sets a precedent for future decisions.

 

[vansteal]

Just been on their forum - actually starting to feel a bit sorry for them.
Nah, sod it - where’s Larry?

Do you have a link please? I’ve an hour or to kill, would be interesting to read what they think.

 

[donny]

Administration at the PL level should carry a much higher penalty than 9 points.

I would suggest relegation and 20 points.

For any club guaranteed 9 points above safety e.g. now, what's the disincentive - stay in the PL and have a zero starting point on P&S calculations

The Italian method is best. Withdraw their share for the division, and expel them.

 

[Rubics]

Points Deduction, Appeal & 2nd PSR Charge

Since these accounts (June 23), we have :- Sold Kean 50k 28m Iwobi 120k 22m Gray 25k 8m Cannon 5k 7.5m Simms 17k 6m Nkounkou 19k 1.7m Ishe Samuels Smith 4m Released Mina 120k Davies 25k Begovic 45k Townsend 40k Jean-Phillipe Gbamin 75k Returned from loan Coady 55k Vinagre 24k Sent out on...

www.grandoldteam.com

 

[YellowBelly Red]

Do you have a link please? I’ve an hour or to kill, would be interesting to read what they think.

It flows from rage to outright hate against us, seasoned well with their usual victim culture. Depressing to the point of abject boredom.

 

[Flaggers]

It flows from rage to outright hate against us, seasoned well with their usual victim culture. Depressing to the point of abject boredom.

Careful - in the same way as "tragedy chanting" and "poverty chanting" are being banned, you'll soon not be allowed to go "victim posting"

 

[Strummer]

The Italian method is best. Withdraw their share for the division, and expel them.

Same process in Germany.

Türkgücü München were expelled from the 3. Liga and their results annulled at the end of the 2021-22 season, due to similar financial issues, and now play in the Regionalliga Bayern.

 

[donny]

Same process in Germany.

Türkgücü München were expelled from the 3. Liga and their results annulled at the end of the 2021-22 season, due to similar financial issues, and now play in the Regionalliga Bayern.

Happened with 1860 as well, didn't it?

 

[Strummer]

Happened with 1860 as well, didn't it?

It did, yes; and also 1. FC Kaiserslautern (although they clawed themselves back and are now in the 2. Bundesliga), 1860 were in serious danger of going bust, but were helped out by FC Bayern, who bought-out the smaller club‘s 50% share in the Allianz Arena, and 1860 then moved back to their old home, the Grünwalder Stadion.

There are rumours also about the financial health of FC Schalke 04, with their rumoured debt being somewhere around €200m (granted, a lot of that is historic debt from the building of the Veltins Arena).

 

[Ashley]

If Everton go into administration, their punishment should be to have Quantuma as their administrators. I'm confident that they can unearth the next Chris Kirchner for them.

 

[Rockabilly]

If Everton go into administration, their punishment should be to have Quantuma as their administrators. I'm confident that they can unearth the next Chris Kirchner for them.

You can be a bit of evil bogger when yer put yer mind to it Ash.