Dean Bradley Henderson

[Mr RayReardon]

Shame about Samba, but if we get Henderson in then we'll have arguably a better keeper for a year and receive a fee for Brice.

If we stay up then we'll be in a position to buy a similar keeper next year, if we don't. Then we wouldn't have bought him anyway.

It's not ideal but a very good bit of business that frees up cash to permanently strengthen in other areas. Namely scoring goals.

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[cheapseats]

The option to buy doesn't benefit United at all really. I just can't see what incentive it gives United and without that it won't be included.



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I don’t see that at all. Ultimately it boils down to whether MU see him playing for them. Assuming they don’t then they have an understandably unhappy player and are carrying a wage for no reason. I would expect the option to buy will be tied to the proportion of his wage we are paying in the initial loan. I also suspect that the player will have a say in that as he bc won’t want Groundhog Day ie a good season with us only to find himself returning to MU to watch games from the sidelines.

 

[Strummer]

Henderson wants to play football because he fancies one of the three England jerseys for Qatar.

He isn’t going to get that, sat on the bench watching David de Gea every week.

As a capped international Player, his worth is significantly higher. As would be his wages.

 

[Gyros Peter]

The latest update is here: https://theathletic.com/news/nottingham-forest-taiwo-awoniyi-talks/VY8Mzh00FJJA/

Which doesn't say anything about no option:

Ha, weird - I was going off what the post had reported the athletic had said, which it appears they haven't! I really hope we manage a loan to perm.

https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1133308362?-60673:807

 

[ShakeyRed]

More chance of Nicky Weaver liking this post

Pearce liked goalkeepers so much he had two on the field at once

His first team selection for us, had no goalkeeper - until his wife, I believe, pointed out the error

 

[Strummer]

His first team selection for us, had no goalkeeper - until his wife, I believe, pointed out the error

In his defence, he did pick three full-backs in the same side.

 

[Chappers85]

In his defence, he did pick three full-backs in the same side.

It's got to be one of the most unbalanced Forest sides ever. 3 centre backs (Cooper, Chettle, Jerkan), a left back playing centre back (Pearce), a utility player most comfortable in defence playing midfield (Haaland), 2 left Wingers (Woan, Allen), 3 strikers (Campbell, Saunders, Roy - who used to be a left winger!) Don’t know how we beat Arsenal!

 

[Canadian_red]

so this is what they're referring to then

 

[Blinkin]

View attachment 14218so this is what they're referring to then

Whilst I would prefer some kind of buy option, we just need to get the guy in so a loan is ok by me.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

I agree, let's ayy a fukin goodlook atim, think he be the biznus.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

I don’t see that at all. Ultimately it boils down to whether MU see him playing for them. Assuming they don’t then they have an understandably unhappy player and are carrying a wage for no reason. I would expect the option to buy will be tied to the proportion of his wage we are paying in the initial loan. I also suspect that the player will have a say in that as he bc won’t want Groundhog Day ie a good season with us only to find himself returning to MU to watch games from the sidelines.

Thing is Cheapo, £20m and his wages mean absolutely nothing to Manchester United. The key is, "option" to buy, but that has no stipulation. The 'option' is triggered buy our desires and nothing else.

Loaning a keeper to team that will be near the bottom has obvious benefit for United. 1) he'll play. 2) he'll be very busy so lots of chance for them to take a good look. 3) he won't benefit a rival.

So, end of season. If United re-evaluate his ranking they get him back. If they want to sell, they will. But, they wouldn't get £20m unless we thought him worth it. If we do deem him worth it, we will still be willing to pay £20m plus other clubs can bid and drive the value up. If we didn't deem him worth £20m then we would forego the option to buy and other clubs can place their bids.

I just don't see the benefit to United. An unhappy player, sure. But let's not pretend they'd care about that!

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[MaxiRobriguez]

Option to buy doesn't necessarily mean transfer will happen if we meet the fee. Could end up with a Spence scenario where he plays so well that a top six club come calling and the player fancies a crack at one of those clubs instead. That's probably the likely scenario if he does well here. If he does averagely or worse then Man Utd unlikely to get more than £20m from other interested clubs.

 

[Vikare]

Option to buy doesn't necessarily mean transfer will happen if we meet the fee. Could end up with a Spence scenario where he plays so well that a top six club come calling and the player fancies a crack at one of those clubs instead. That's probably the likely scenario if he does well here. If he does averagely or worse then Man Utd unlikely to get more than £20m from other interested clubs.

Nope. Option to buy means guaranteed transfer if we meet the fee (at the end of the year.)

The whole Spence scenario was inevitable precisely because we didn't have an option to buy.

 

[karteo]

Nope. Option to buy means guaranteed transfer if we meet the fee (at the end of the year.)

The whole Spence scenario was inevitable precisely because we didn't have an option to buy.

actually it's not guaranteed since the player may not agree at all in the move.
on the contrary if the player wants a permanent move next year then MU will accept an offer.

 

[cheapseats]

Thing is Cheapo, £20m and his wages mean absolutely nothing to Manchester United. The key is, "option" to buy, but that has no stipulation. The 'option' is triggered buy our desires and nothing else.

Loaning a keeper to team that will be near the bottom has obvious benefit for United. 1) he'll play. 2) he'll be very busy so lots of chance for them to take a good look. 3) he won't benefit a rival.

So, end of season. If United re-evaluate his ranking they get him back. If they want to sell, they will. But, they wouldn't get £20m unless we thought him worth it. If we do deem him worth it, we will still be willing to pay £20m plus other clubs can bid and drive the value up. If we didn't deem him worth £20m then we would forego the option to buy and other clubs can place their bids.

I just don't see the benefit to United. An unhappy player, sure. But let's not pretend they'd care about that!

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I just think your logic is faulty Ray.

1) 20M and wages is something to MU-the owners are pulling cash out of the club as fast as they can and they are nowhere near as rich a club as some others. Sure they can "afford" to take hair cuts on some aspects of their operation but not indefinitely.
2) They don't need to take a "look" at him-he played a whole season for the Blunts and was exceptionally good, gaining an England cap (I think)-hes still the same player just rusty.
3) They really do need to care about unhappy players and the dressing room. If the widespread chat is to be believed things are diabolical there. I don't know about Henderson but just because hes on the bench doesn't mean he doesn't have a voice as a senior lad within the group.
4) All of your comments could be applied to Garner. If so we have have no chance of him coming back either.

I have no idea if this will happen or not, my contention is simply that we cannot keep loaning players to put in the shop window for others. Sure it got us promoted last year but its left us with a monumental hang over in that we now need 1/2 a team just to stay put. I don't think that can carry on.

 

[Vikare]

actually it's not guaranteed since the player may not agree at all in the move.
on the contrary if the player wants a permanent move next year then MU will accept an offer.

I was under the impression terms with the player are agreed beforehand and come into effect if/when the option is exercised. Otherwise we would be seeing loans with "option to buy" falling through after the option is exercised (the player rejecting the contract offered,) which from memory I do not recall happening even once.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

I just think your logic is faulty Ray.

1) 20M and wages is something to MU-the owners are pulling cash out of the club as fast as they can and they are nowhere near as rich a club as some others. Sure they can "afford" to take hair cuts on some aspects of their operation but not indefinitely.
2) They don't need to take a "look" at him-he played a whole season for the Blunts and was exceptionally good, gaining an England cap (I think)-hes still the same player just rusty.
3) They really do need to care about unhappy players and the dressing room. If the widespread chat is to be believed things are diabolical there. I don't know about Henderson but just because hes on the bench doesn't mean he doesn't have a voice as a senior lad within the group.
4) All of your comments could be applied to Garner. If so we have have no chance of him coming back either.

I have no idea if this will happen or not, my contention is simply that we cannot keep loaning players to put in the shop window for others. Sure it got us promoted last year but its left us with a monumental hang over in that we now need 1/2 a team just to stay put. I don't think that can carry on.

I'd happily be proven wrong, especially with point 4. But, alas, in my opinion I don't think we have a chance getting him back until January. I certainly agree with you on the toxic changing room, but I think that's with the huge earners and big name players like Pogba. If figures are to be believed, United's wage bill is £200m (ish). Their turnover is probably triple that... Henderson's wages will be immaterial.



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[Mr RayReardon]

I just think your logic is faulty Ray.

1) 20M and wages is something to MU-the owners are pulling cash out of the club as fast as they can and they are nowhere near as rich a club as some others. Sure they can "afford" to take hair cuts on some aspects of their operation but not indefinitely.
2) They don't need to take a "look" at him-he played a whole season for the Blunts and was exceptionally good, gaining an England cap (I think)-hes still the same player just rusty.
3) They really do need to care about unhappy players and the dressing room. If the widespread chat is to be believed things are diabolical there. I don't know about Henderson but just because hes on the bench doesn't mean he doesn't have a voice as a senior lad within the group.
4) All of your comments could be applied to Garner. If so we have have no chance of him coming back either.

I have no idea if this will happen or not, my contention is simply that we cannot keep loaning players to put in the shop window for others. Sure it got us promoted last year but its left us with a monumental hang over in that we now need 1/2 a team just to stay put. I don't think that can carry on.

Hopefully there's no disagreement that, whatever the terms of the loan, having him for the season will be of great benefit to Forest

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[MaxiRobriguez]

I was under the impression terms with the player are agreed beforehand and come into effect if/when the option is exercised. Otherwise we would be seeing loans with "option to buy" falling through after the option is exercised (the player rejecting the contract offered,) which from memory I do not recall happening even once.

Compulsory purchase at the end of the loan requires personal terms agreement in advance

Option to buy just gives the loaning club the right to have a bid accepted at a pre agreed price. Player negotiations start after that bid is placed.

 

[Rzar]

Compulsory purchase at the end of the loan requires personal terms agreement in advance

Option to buy just gives the loaning club the right to have a bid accepted at a pre agreed price. Player negotiations start after that bid is placed.

You are right, but you can also agree a contract with the player prior to a loan, so the clause would just need activating for the transfer to happen.

You see lots of loans abroad especially where a team activates a option to buy on a player then sells them right away.

 

[Vikare]

Compulsory purchase at the end of the loan requires personal terms agreement in advance

Option to buy just gives the loaning club the right to have a bid accepted at a pre agreed price. Player negotiations start after that bid is placed.

You are right, but you can also agree a contract with the player prior to a loan, so the clause would just need activating for the transfer to happen.

You see lots of loans abroad especially where a team activates a option to buy on a player then sells them right away.

Have no idea which is correct. Hopefully Dane does.

 

[Statto]

You are right, but you can also agree a contract with the player prior to a loan, so the clause would just need activating for the transfer to happen.

You see lots of loans abroad especially where a team activates a option to buy on a player then sells them right away.

Fulham had Knockaert on loan when they got promoted, bought him permanently the summer after, and then loaned him straight to us.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

Fulham had Knockaert on loan when they got promoted, bought him permanently the summer after, and then loaned him straight to us.

Wonder where he'll be playing next season !

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[karteo]

I was under the impression terms with the player are agreed beforehand and come into effect if/when the option is exercised. Otherwise we would be seeing loans with "option to buy" falling through after the option is exercised (the player rejecting the contract offered,) which from memory I do not recall happening even once.

you are right. perhaps i didn't write this properly. i mean that perhaps the player doesn't want to commit right now for his future, therefore there is no need for an option to buy. Henderson probably would like to have all his options open for next summer, and would like first to see how it will go with Forest this season and how he will adapt himself there.

 

[Statto]

Wonder where he'll be playing next season !

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Who cares, he's a bit of a peen and fortunately we have moved on from shit loans like that.