Cardiff disaster and the need for technology to help referees

[BuckeyeRed]

Ok, today has, and continues to be, a complete disaster. Not only are we getting a hammering but we're also having our precarious goal difference eaten away. Still, with Brighton winning (I thought they'd finish above us) and Bolton only drawing we should still be in the top 6. That will leave us with a 2 point cushion over Leicester and Bolton with an inferior goal difference. Simple. Match their results for the remaining 4 games.

aaah, Bolton winning. This looks like a struggle from now on in...

However, my main point is the use of technology. The introduction of technology is an absolute must to help referees and to help the 'respect' campaign. Why do the football authorites continue to be so obdurate when introducing a 'video' ref to help with match changing and sometimes season changing decisions. Rugby do it.. Cricket do it.. yet football, the money orientated sport - continues to be stuck in the dark ages.

Goal line technology - a must for top two divisions.
Offsides - when goals are scored, a quick check to see if there's any reason why the goal cannot be given. Will take no more than 1 minute to confer.
Tackles/red card decisions - referee blows up, thinking he's seen something. Video referee can confirm whether it's a red/yellow or simply a free kick.

There are too many rash decisions that are ruining football matches. I am not saying we would have got anything out of this game. But, if we fail to reach the play-offs on goal difference then we could rightly look back on this as a day we were subject to a poor refereeing decision and subsequently thoroughly beaten.

If we fail to reach the playoffs, I'll blame it on the fact that we've conceded first in over half our games. Simple as.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

I think personally that what would really help Referees is for football to adopt the rule in Rugby Union where only the Captain can talk to the Ref.

That would immediately stop the pack-haranguing of officials you see so often in football (and which grotty little shits like Bellamy and Kevin Davies are fine exponents of).

for people who say, 'we need better refs' will be saying the same in 30 years' time.

Ref 'I've blown up as I think there was an elbow used by the Forest player. My initial decision is red card, can you please advise'

Video ref 'contact was made, however, eye was on the ball.. clumsy at worst. Yellow card would be fair. Free kick Cardiff'.

Done. All within a minute. Players have no influence at all.

 

[Ravi]

I think personally that what would really help Referees is for football to adopt the rule in Rugby Union where only the Captain can talk to the Ref.

That would immediately stop the pack-haranguing of officials you see so often in football (and which grotty little shits like Bellamy and Kevin Davies are fine exponents of).

That would be a huge improvement. Man U would struggle to make the top 4 though.

 

[Erik]

If we fail to reach the playoffs, I'll blame it on the fact that we've conceded first in over half our games. Simple as.

If we fail to reach the playoffs I'll blame it on McLeish being an absolute disaster for us. Just 4 more points in his tenure and we'd be sitting pretty right now.

 

[Tutts]

for people who say, 'we need better refs' will be saying the same in 30 years' time.

Ref 'I've blown up as I think there was an elbow used by the Forest player. My initial decision is red card, can you please advise'

Video ref 'contact was made, however, eye was on the ball.. clumsy at worst. Yellow card would be fair. Free kick Cardiff'.

Done. All within a minute. Players have no influence at all.

If that decision had been referred today, it would have still been a red.

Ref: I've blown up as I believe the Forest striker caught the Cardiff defender in the face with a loose arm.

Video Ref: Correct he did.

Ref: Thank you. Red card.



And you still haven't answered my other point - what if he just blew for the foul and Cardiff felt it was a red card? Are they supposed to raise an appeal on the sidelines?

 

[trickytrees12]

for people who say, 'we need better refs' will be saying the same in 30 years' time.

Ref 'I've blown up as I think there was an elbow used by the Forest player. My initial decision is red card, can you please advise'

Video ref 'contact was made, however, eye was on the ball.. clumsy at worst. Yellow card would be fair. Free kick Cardiff'.

Done. All within a minute. Players have no influence at all.

I'm sorry but how on earth would this actually work in the game?

Imagine there was no contact and the ref got it wrong? How would you start the game again?

Goal line tech is a must - but other that I cannot see how technology can work without changing the game of football for the worse. Can you imagine how much it would slow the game down.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

apologies - whether Cardiff thought it was a red is immaterial. The video ref could see the incident frame-by-frame and make a much more informed decision.. The referee makes a decision and that decision can be either confirmed or not by the video ref. If the ref just blew up, and the officials decide in hindsight that there was a red card then a suspension would have to be given in retrospect. It's impossible to jump for a ball without raising your arms. We've lost Blackstock and Hendo to the same decision.

The ref is there to make decisions - not the players/managers. However, the ref needs more information in order to make sure they make they right decision.

Still - Leicester v Bolton on Tuesday... if we beat Boro it'll be all to play for again.

 

[BuckeyeRed]

If we fail to reach the playoffs I'll blame it on McLeish being an absolute disaster for us. Just 4 more points in his tenure and we'd be sitting pretty right now.

Well, that too.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

I'm sorry but how on earth would this actually work in the game?

Imagine there was no contact and the ref got it wrong? How would you start the game again?

Goal line tech is a must - but other that I cannot see how technology can work without changing the game of football for the worse. Can you imagine how much it would slow the game down.

Free kick - simple. It's not for all decisions, rather match changing decisions. Red cards & goals.

As there are only a few of these per game - it would have little impact on how the game flows.

 

[Strummer]

That would be a huge improvement. Man U would struggle to make the top 4 though.

Ah well, f*** 'em!

 

[JordanForest]

I'm sorry but how on earth would this actually work in the game?

Imagine there was no contact and the ref got it wrong? How would you start the game again?

Goal line tech is a must - but other that I cannot see how technology can work without changing the game of football for the worse. Can you imagine how much it would slow the game down.

Are you saying the ref would have given a free-kick, and then we'd see it wasn't, and then we'd have stopped play for an illegitimate free kick and we'd need a way to restart play?

 

[Mr RayReardon]

video officials cannot referee a game by sitting in an office. However, they can be used to ensure that the game changing decisions - red cards, goals (offsides/crossing the line). The referee always makes the decision but they need help in ensuring that decision was correct.

I don't think anyone would be that bothered about conceding a free-kick that wasn't. It doesn't change the game. Unless of course, the free-kick led to a goal.. that would be a difficult one..

 

[Flaggers]

If that decision had been referred today, it would have still been a red.

Ref: I've blown up as I believe the Forest striker caught the Cardiff defender in the face with a loose arm.

Video Ref: Correct he did.

Ref: Thank you. Red card.

The way it works in Rugby (& quite well if you ask me) is the on-field ref says to the TV ref "I am going to award a try, unless you give me reason not to".

With Henderson today, the ref would ask "I am going to send the bloke off unless you tell me not to". 4th official would look at it and say "yellow only" or whatever.

No reason why it can't work in football.

 

[adam09]

If that decision had been referred today, it would have still been a red.

Ref: I've blown up as I believe the Forest striker caught the Cardiff defender in the face with a loose arm.

Video Ref: Correct he did.

Ref: Thank you. Red card.

Which then makes you wonder why every single game doesn't have 6 red cards.

My problem in all of this is how a ref can pick out one instance of the sort of coming together which happens frequently and then decide it's any more dangerous than normal.

I mean, I put a stream on and within a minute I saw a Cardiff defender go for a header leading with his arm which made contact with the back of the Forest player. Why isn't that a red card then? It happens every 5 minutes that sort of thing. But then Andre Marriner doesn't have a very good reputation anyway does he?

 

[Tutts]

The way it works in Rugby (& quite well if you ask me) is the on-field ref says to the TV ref "I am going to award a try, unless you give me reason not to".

With Henderson today, the ref would ask "I am going to send the bloke off unless you tell me not to". 4th official would look at it and say "yellow only" or whatever.

No reason why it can't work in football.

You're just flipping the decision making to someone else's judgement. You could have a lenient 4th official or a strict 4th official.

In the situation outlined, it would still be a red anyway. The Ref would have said he'd seen Henderson strike the other player - the 4th offical would would have confirmed that was the case.
I'm happy for it to cover line judgements, I'm even happy for them to check goals (ie. that Norwich Youth one the other day would have been chalked off.) for irregularities but for sendings off? Not for me. For most offences it's purely down to the judgement of the referee as to severeness and intent.

 

[the mask of zorro]

If that decision had been referred today, it would have still been a red.

Ref: I've blown up as I believe the Forest striker caught the Cardiff defender in the face with a loose arm.

Video Ref: Correct he did.

Ref: Thank you. Red card.



And you still haven't answered my other point - what if he just blew for the foul and Cardiff felt it was a red card? Are they supposed to raise an appeal on the sidelines?

From the clip I've just seen, Henderson's arm didn't get any higher than his neck.

 

[Tutts]

Which then makes you wonder why every single game doesn't have 6 red cards.

My problem in all of this is how a ref can pick out one instance of the sort of coming together which happens frequently and then decide it's any more dangerous than normal.

I mean, I put a stream on and within a minute I saw a Cardiff defender go for a header leading with his arm which made contact with the back of the Forest player. Why isn't that a red card then? It happens every 5 minutes that sort of thing. But then Andre Marriner doesn't have a very good reputation anyway does he?

No, he does not. Which is why it was his judgement that Hendo's was deliberate or had intent.

Similarly, the kick on Halford, he deems is dangerous (as he blows for a free kick) but not with enough intent or danger to warrant further action.

 

[Tutts]

From the clip I've just seen, Henderson's arm didn't get any higher than his neck.

I'm merely saying how it would probably be interperated, and the height of your arms doesn't matter per see, it's what the referee deems as intent, otherwise there'd be 22 reds a game.

 

[Flaggers]

You're just flipping the decision making to someone else's judgement. You could have a lenient 4th official or a strict 4th official.

In the situation outlined, it would still be a red anyway. The Ref would have said he'd seen Henderson strike the other player - the 4th offical would would have confirmed that was the case.
I'm happy for it to cover line judgements, I'm even happy for them to check goals (ie. that Norwich Youth one the other day would have been chalked off.) for irregularities but for sendings off? Not for me. For most offences it's purely down to the judgement of the referee as to severeness and intent.

That's how rugby does it. The on-field official makes a decision & then asks the 4th official if there's any reason to change that decision.

AND, we all get to see the replays that the Officials see...

With today's red card, IMHO I think any sensible 4th official would give the on-field ref a reason not to red card, but to yellow card instead.

 

[Tutts]

That's how rugby does it. The on-field official makes a decision & then asks the 4th official if there's any reason to change that decision.

AND, we all get to see the replays that the Officials see...

With today's red card, IMHO I think any sensible 4th official would give the on-field ref a reason not to red card, but to yellow card instead.

The referee in Rugby only calls in the Video Referee for Trys.

As I said, I'm happy to use it for Goals but not on field incidents.

 

[gedlingred]

Gamesmanship and poor refereeing decisions are now endemic in the game.

Get the technology in soon as.

 

[London Forest]

Ok, today has, and continues to be, a complete disaster. Not only are we getting a hammering but we're also having our precarious goal difference eaten away.

What goal difference? All the other teams apart from Bolton have huge better GD than us, the maths are simple, we need to finish a point above the other teams. The GD is actually irrelevant for us, thats been obvious for weeks. So today, apart from killing the winning streak was not unexpected or a disaster. Win midweek is vital though.

However, my main point is the use of technology. The introduction of technology is an absolute must to help referees and to help the 'respect' campaign. Why do the football authorites continue to be so obdurate when introducing a 'video' ref to help with match changing and sometimes season changing decisions. Rugby do it.. Cricket do it.. yet football, the money orientated sport - continues to be stuck in the dark ages.

Stop moaning, it was soft, but it was red, although the Cardiff player made a meal of it. Technology would not have changed that today. I like talking points in football, some go for, some against. The only place I want technology is for 'did the ball cross the line', after that, screw it, lets not have stop/start football, which TV replays would bring.

 

[RRRREDUN]

I couldn't see it as a red card. The ref showed his skewed view of the game by yellow-carding several Forest players for VERY similar 'fouls' to those which Cardiff got away with. No, this is not a we were cheated by the ref rant (no point) but the man with the whistle was pathetically poor and ultimately made it difficult for us to get anything out of a game we started brightly in.

 

[winnits]

Not a red for me either, seen from several angles. But shit happens. Expected to lose anyway.

 

[Tutts]

Would we have got as many points under Billy if say, half the red cards awarded against our opposition, were downgraded to Yellows?

It's all hypothesis really but we need to learn plans to cope with this sort of event. My mind goes back to against Swansea in the play offs where they lost a player after 2 minutes yet regrouped admirably.