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Joseph Adrian Worrall (The Club Captain!)

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redodare

First Team Squad
Otis Redding said:
I appreciate the point you're making but I believe Steve had every right to comment on the feeble attempt to prevent Luton's equaliser, although I don't recall him mentioning Joe personally?
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Cooper had every right to comment but it was highly unusual for him to do so, And insensitive. Out of character for someone who was an assured communicator and player motivator
The game was Worrall's chance to get back into the team and make amends with Cooper. Following stories about friction in their relationship.
Then we had the triple substitution to defend a two goal lead - game management? Complacency? But with hindsight a mistake.
Cooper saying we should be more physical for the goal was clearly pointing at Worrall. Basically saying the thing you were brought on to do, the thing you are best at , you didn't do. The chance for reconcilliation lost.
Neither Cooper or Worrall come out of this well. Nor the fans who didn't welcome Worrall's arrival on to the pitch with the respect a local club captain would usually merit.
A complete mess.
 
Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
Its not hard to imagine a conversation along the lines of 'are you going to throw him under the bus now?' after Murillo's mistake v Liverpool.

#speculation!
 
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trentside69

Viv Anderson
redodare said:
Cooper threw him under the bus after the Luton game. Saying we should have had the physicality to deal with the goal that Wozza gifted.
Cooper was saying what we all saw. But singling him out was harsh and unusual.
Apparently, this was mild in comparison with what was said in the dressing room.
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I don't remember cooper throwing him under the bus to be fair it was the exact opposite.
Cooper refused to throw anyone under the bus and in the end it was why he got sacked.
Accuse cooper of many things but he has never threw anyone under the bus and dived under the bus himself.
 
congo_red_49

congo_red_49

Ale Ape
redodare said:
Cooper had every right to comment but it was highly unusual for him to do so, And insensitive. Out of character for someone who was an assured communicator and player motivator
The game was Worrall's chance to get back into the team and make amends with Cooper. Following stories about friction in their relationship.
Then we had the triple substitution to defend a two goal lead - game management? Complacency? But with hindsight a mistake.
Cooper saying we should be more physical for the goal was clearly pointing at Worrall. Basically saying the thing you were brought on to do, the thing you are best at , you didn't do. The chance for reconcilliation lost.
Neither Cooper or Worrall come out of this well. Nor the fans who didn't welcome Worrall's arrival on to the pitch with the respect a local club captain would usually merit.
A complete mess.
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Mitigating for both, it was clearly during a very high pressure time.
Cooper was clearly feeling the pressure being cranked up to get results from the club ownership and their unrealistic expectations.
Joe was clearly feeling the pressure building on him to prove he's a Premier League center back and worthwhile Club Captain amid the back-drop of personal issues.
Under the circumstances, I'm not surprised that mistakes were made, probably by both that damaged the relationship. I'm perhaps more surprised that they both chose to let it go on rather than reconcile.
 
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Cloughie1975

John Robertson
Otis Redding said:
I appreciate the point you're making but I believe Steve had every right to comment on the feeble attempt to prevent Luton's equaliser, although I don't recall him mentioning Joe personally?
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I distinctly remember Brian Clough publicly criticising Colin Todd and Roy McFarland after
Derby lost a home game at the Baseball Ground in the early 70s.
It was a different era-but everyone seems so sensitive and adverse to criticism these days.
 
Alf-engelos Mindminackers

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Cloughie1975 said:
I distinctly remember Brian Clough publicly criticising Colin Todd and Roy McFarland after
Derby lost a home game at the Baseball Ground in the early 70s.
It was a different era-but everyone seems so sensitive and adverse to criticism these days.
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Well said.

Furthermore, it's amazing how people deem fallouts as always final too. In Joe's case it was, in Clough & Taylor's case it was too, but people do make up and move on as well. This weird mentality that they don't puzzles me, I'd have been divorced 50 times already if fallouts were always permanents lol.
 
Shearstone

Shearstone

Misses the champ
Alf-engelos Mindminackers said:
Well said.

Furthermore, it's amazing how people deem fallouts as always final too. In Joe's case it was, in Clough & Taylor's case it was too, but people do make up and move on as well. This weird mentality that they don't puzzles me, I'd have been divorced 50 times already if fallouts were always permanents lol.
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Maybe it won't be final. If say next season Cooper takes a job in the champ and needs a CB, wouldn't surprise me one bit if he brought in Joe.

As for Cloughie didn't him and Archie Gemmill have a falling out only for Archie to return as his assistant at forest years later?
 
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trentside69

Viv Anderson
Alf-engelos Mindminackers said:
Well said.

Furthermore, it's amazing how people deem fallouts as always final too. In Joe's case it was, in Clough & Taylor's case it was too, but people do make up and move on as well. This weird mentality that they don't puzzles me, I'd have been divorced 50 times already if fallouts were always permanents lol.
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Until you get your ego under control there are going to be problems in your life at home and at work.
Humility is not in fashion in the modern world/game
 
Otis Redding

Otis Redding

Try A Little Tenderness
Cloughie1975 said:
I distinctly remember Brian Clough publicly criticising Colin Todd and Roy McFarland after
Derby lost a home game at the Baseball Ground in the early 70s.
It was a different era-but everyone seems so sensitive and adverse to criticism these days.
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Had Cloughie been in charge against Luton it wouldn't have been a huge shock to see Joe hooked, even if it meant leaving us a player short for the last few minutes.
 
congo_red_49

congo_red_49

Ale Ape
Otis Redding said:
Had Cloughie been in charge against Luton it wouldn't have been a huge shock to see Joe hooked, even if it meant leaving us a player short for the last few minutes.
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The way modern footballers play, Cloughie wouldn't have enough subs to hook all the players he'd want to.
 
Rockabilly

Rockabilly

GAFF LAD. "Open your knees and feel the breeze"
Alot of these modern day footballers giving it large on social media, but as soon as they get a tap on the wrists, they go running home crying to mummy or in most cases their agents.
 
D

dr_horse

Geoff Thomas
Eddie Yates said:
Absolutely, JW was criticised for a massive bollock drop v Luton, he should just accept it & get on with his job without gobbing off in the Larwood (if that's what happened)
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I was pretty vociferous in my criticism of Joe for that goal and I stand by it, but it was a sporting mistake and as you said you take what learnings you can from it and move on.

If he really went on to fall out with Cooper/bad mouth ppl in public/sulk about the place (delete as appropriate) then that's the disappointing bit.

Cooper giving Joe and Yates the armband I'm sure galvanized the team and provided some vital continuity throughout all the squad changes. Later on though it became awkward as Joe looked below prem standard, and then downright disruptive as the club captain couldn't even get a game. Perhaps Cooper's greatest strategic blunder.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
 
Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
In fairness to Joe if I know he can't deal with that type of player (v Luton) his manager should too - exactly the wrong type to put him on against.

Think Niakhate was on the bench that day too and really, in a horses for courses way, McKenna should have been - ideal for Adebeyo. Of course, he'd fallen out with the club too by then. Shit times all round really.
 
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trentside69

Viv Anderson
Gyros Peter said:
In fairness to Joe if I know he can't deal with that type of player (v Luton) his manager should too - exactly the wrong type to put him on against.

Think Niakhate was on the bench that day too and really, in a horses for courses way, McKenna should have been - ideal for his Adebeyo. Of course, he'd fallen out with the club too by then. Shit times all round really.
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To be fair a lot of fans were demanding worral could do a job and wanted him in the team.
Cooper gave him the best chance and asked him to keep the door shut for 10 minutes and he couldn't do it.
And if he can't deal with strikers of fellow relegation candidates he should up his game like his mate Yates did.
 
Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
trentside69 said:
To be fair a lot of fans were demanding worral could do a job and wanted him in the team.
Cooper gave him the best chance and asked him to keep the door shut for 10 minutes and he couldn't do it.
And if he can't deal with strikers of fellow relegation candidates he should up his game like his mate Yates did.
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I said to my old man at the time that he was the worst possible option to bring on Vs Adebeyo. I was right.
 
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trentside69

Viv Anderson
Gyros Peter said:
I said to my old man at the time that he was the worst possible option to bring on Vs Adebeyo. I was right.
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I genuinely thought the same when I saw him waiting to come on but really didn't expect it to go so wrong.
I remember quite a few players just went to pieces when we were 2 nil up at home with 10 minutes left so it wasn't just worral but it all happened when he came on
 
Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
trentside69 said:
I genuinely thought the same when I saw him waiting to come on but really didn't expect it to go so wrong.
I remember quite a few players just went to pieces when we were 2 nil up at home with 10 minutes left so it wasn't just worral but it all happened when he came on
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Yeah, we collectively shat it when the first went in, which was more an Aurier error than a Joe one. The second goal though - just terrible defending on several levels.

If only Wood's third of the day was onside - that's another sliding doors moment for me, along with Elanga's to level v Spurs.
 
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