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Joe Kinnear

Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
Otis Redd'un said:
He served a purpose for the remainder of the season after he replaced Paul Hart by introducing an uncomplicated, back-to-the-basics approach into a dressing room that had gradually been dragged down by Harty's morose response to being denied the opportunity to apply for the West Ham and Leeds jobs, which was plunging us in a seemingly unstoppable downward spiral. A situation compounded by Hart's stubborn refusal to abandon a diamond formation that every other team had long-since rumbled.

At the end of that season ND should have thanked Kinnear for his efforts and seen him on his way rather than irresponsibly offering him a 3-year contract. A decision that undoubtedly triggered the worst period in the club's history.
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Not sure at the time you'd find many would have agreed that ND should have let Kinnear go at the end of the season and appointed someone else. He had done a good job and achieved results keeping us in the division quite easily, had we reproduced that form over the season we would probably have reached the playoffs or at least been in contention.

What actually happened was that a lot more players left and were not replaced with those of equivalent standard - Williams for example.
 
S

sedgred

Banned
Otis Redd'un said:
He served a purpose for the remainder of the season after he replaced Paul Hart by introducing an uncomplicated, back-to-the-basics approach into a dressing room that had gradually been dragged down by Harty's morose response to being denied the opportunity to apply for the West Ham and Leeds jobs, which was plunging us in a seemingly unstoppable downward spiral. A situation compounded by Hart's stubborn refusal to abandon a diamond formation that every other team had long-since rumbled.

At the end of that season ND should have thanked Kinnear for his efforts and seen him on his way rather than irresponsibly offering him a 3-year contract. A decision that undoubtedly triggered the worst period in the club's history.
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I thought Nigel Doughty was the best thing since sliced bread, he was a fan, a gentleman who deserved far more from the club, players and the vocal minority morons from some fans, for his huge investment and lets be frank, saving the club from bankruptcy.

I could see why and where he appointed the various managers who failed his trust and spent his money like water, the most disastrous appointment he ever made was BFJ, as noted, this, triggered the melt down, forever tainting Nigel's period of ownership.

I hope Fawaz is enjoying the adulation and limelight, because some of the same fans who are worshipping at his feet, will turn and bite his ankles when the satisfaction and expectations they have are not fulfilled for what ever reason.
 
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sedgred

Banned
Statto said:
Not sure at the time you'd find many would have agreed that ND should have let Kinnear go at the end of the season and appointed someone else. He had done a good job and achieved results keeping us in the division quite easily, had we reproduced that form over the season we would probably have reached the playoffs or at least been in contention.

What actually happened was that a lot more players left and were not replaced with those of equivalent standard - Williams for example.
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How many more sodding times does this need pointing out. Forest were bust, no money what so ever, Sorry cannot remember the forward, but Forest dare not play him because if he had scored another goal, it would have triggered another raft of transfer payments for him.

Also. Huge problems between ND and Paul Hart, who's son allegedly was agent to many of the young players allegedly, thus able to negotiate out from under the clubs nose several talented youngsters.
 
FBS

FBS

Steve Chettle
Didn't he take down all the European cup pictures? Saying we don't need history hanging around the place?
 
Redemption

Redemption

One less gobshite...
sedgred said:
I thought Nigel Doughty was the best thing since sliced bread, he was a fan, a gentleman who deserved far more from the club, players and the vocal minority morons from some fans, for his huge investment and lets be frank, saving the club from bankruptcy.

I could see why and where he appointed the various managers who failed his trust and spent his money like water, the most disastrous appointment he ever made was BFJ, as noted, this, triggered the melt down, forever tainting Nigel's period of ownership.

I hope Fawaz is enjoying the adulation and limelight, because some of the same fans who are worshipping at his feet, will turn and bite his ankles when the satisfaction and expectations they have are not fulfilled for what ever reason.
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I largely agree with you Sedge.

I've always said that Doughty inherited the momentum and we'll never know if the decisions worked or not.

Like most fans it's hard for me to sperate out the strategic from tactical. I've seen the 'turning an oil-tanker' metaphor used to describe the first period of ND's reign. I suppose the problem is your perspective, if you're on the bridge with the captain you know what's happening and that, choppy waters aside (ITV digital, etc), the intent and the mechanisms are engaged on the task. If you're a bystander on the shore, the tanker still looks like it's going the Wrong way - if that day at Burnley was my darkest day, the wet Tuesday night at Brentford under Megson was a close 2nd and it was hard to see anything other than the tanker running aground.

Doughty took us to some dark places, but he also bought us back. Well never know if we had to go to on that detour first. Ultimately, the tanker that Kinnear and Megson had to turn had a lot of momentum, whether they did it the right way will only ever be viewed tactically.

But like you, I never doubted that every decision ND made - right or wrong in hindsight - was made in Forest's best interest.
 
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newarkneil

First Team Squad
One of the worst Manager's in our entire history, all factors considered ... not as bad as Platt but not far off.
 
T

T.O.Tricky.

Grenville Morris
sedgred said:
How many more sodding times does this need pointing out. Forest were bust, no money what so ever, Sorry cannot remember the forward, but Forest dare not play him because if he had scored another goal, it would have triggered another raft of transfer payments for him.

Also. Huge problems between ND and Paul Hart, who's son allegedly was agent to many of the young players allegedly, thus able to negotiate out from under the clubs nose several talented youngsters.
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The fabulous Stern John.
 
magicwoand

magicwoand

It tizwas it is
sedgred said:
How many more sodding times does this need pointing out. Forest were bust, no money what so ever, Sorry cannot remember the forward, but Forest dare not play him because if he had scored another goal, it would have triggered another raft of transfer payments for him.

Also. Huge problems between ND and Paul Hart, who's son allegedly was agent to many of the young players allegedly, thus able to negotiate out from under the clubs nose several talented youngsters.
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I'm not sure your remembering the chronology of events correctly, but that close season after Joe Kinnear kept us up was the infamous serious about promotion campaign. There where articles in the post suggesting that if Joe wanted a £5m player Doughty would get him. Sexy signings and all that and Joe Kinnear infamously claiming he'd shaved £20m off the debt. I don't think we where 'broke' at that point.
 
Tutts

Tutts

Ian Bowyer
Pretty disgusting that Danny Taylor should use a humorous story he heard from one of his Forest sources. :whistle:
 
S

sedgred

Banned
magicwoand said:
I'm not sure your remembering the chronology of events correctly, but that close season after Joe Kinnear kept us up was the infamous serious about promotion campaign. There where articles in the post suggesting that if Joe wanted a £5m player Doughty would get him. Sexy signings and all that and Joe Kinnear infamously claiming he'd shaved £20m off the debt. I don't think we where 'broke' at that point.
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:whistle::yellow1:

I stand corrected, it was indeed the summer of promotion seriousness .
 
J

jdthebrit

First Team Squad
sedgred said:
I thought Nigel Doughty was the best thing since sliced bread, he was a fan, a gentleman who deserved far more from the club, players and the vocal minority morons from some fans, for his huge investment and lets be frank, saving the club from bankruptcy.

I could see why and where he appointed the various managers who failed his trust and spent his money like water, the most disastrous appointment he ever made was BFJ, as noted, this, triggered the melt down, forever tainting Nigel's period of ownership.

I hope Fawaz is enjoying the adulation and limelight, because some of the same fans who are worshipping at his feet, will turn and bite his ankles when the satisfaction and expectations they have are not fulfilled for what ever reason.
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The opposite is my memory of events - from the off I strongly resented the concept of the take over of my club by Doughty with his (albeit later) train set mentality and the infamous "I'd rather give my money to charity Radio Snott" rant - but hey-ho!
It's all old news and should not be raked over. In the past and that's where contentious opinions ought to stay?
 
E

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
Doughty was a top man and loved the club but made some horrific appointments Platt, Megson, Kinnear and McClaren but he did appoint Davies who at the time I thought was a shocker so he does deserve kudos for that.
 
Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
TheEastIsRed said:
Recall when BFJ described Forest v Derby as 'just another game'. Numpty.
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He either doesn't care much for local derby matches (Wimbledon never really had one), is taking the pressure off losing, or didn't really learn from the mistakes he did here, because he did the same thing in his spell at the barcodes:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/joe-kinnear-newcastle-united-19405549

2) Misjudging the Tyne-Wear derby after losing at the Stadium of Light

Kinnear was the man in charge as Newcastle lost their first derby match in eight years in a 2-1 defeat on Wearside.

The Dublin-born boss watched on as Kieran Richardson whipped home a free-kick to send Sunderland fans into Dreamland but after the narrow reverse, Kinnear failed to grasp what it really meant to the Geordie public.

Claiming it was "just another game" Kinnear found himself under even more pressure as the gloomy tone was set for the rest of the season.
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The endless clap trap about the takeover up there (which actually i recall had some truth in it, Ashley was trying to sell) compares with the clap trap about the debt we had here, but then he's always been entertaining on that.

I actually read Joe's autobiography the other day, it's a shame it ends before the Luton - Forest - Barcodes days because that would be interesting to read, it goes up to just after the heart attack. Certainly the Wimbledon story is interesting, Hammamm didn't want any debt, they could only afford Hartson for 7m because they'd sold before that and felt he would be worth more on resale, between them it was a pretty well run club if you think about it because he constantly got in cheap players from nowhere and mostly made a profit on them. Actually the sort of thing we should be doing right now.

And actually, he did make some good signings for us - Commons, if we'd not let him leave for nothing, was a multi million player we got for what, 300k? Paul Evans was limited but did the job he needed to and cheap at 25k?
 
Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
He was limited but did the job he was asked to do. He could get the ball off the opposition and give it to Reidy/Williams who could do something with it. We'd had no-one who could do that as we tried to replace Riccy Scimeca with Bryn Gunnarsson (who looked decent in 1 pre season friendly) and Danny Sonner (who was similarly shit).

After Reidy's attention had been diverted down the M1 and we'd let Williams go to the bin dippers for naff all we didn't have anyone for him to pass to. So a bit like now where we have DMs and no-one centrally to create. Though he did get that goal against West Ham when Cloughie died.
 
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