Why can't you question integrity?

[wallya]

In a time when the great institution of the Post Office is being revealed to be a disgraceful hornet's net of corruption, why is it so outlandish to even suggest that the billion pound football industry might not be whiter than white?
When Nuno asked why it was OK to suggest that corruption was possible in those sneaky foreign countries, but not in dear 'Old Blighty,' he hit the nail on the head as to why so many people, get away with so much here.
This country is corrupt as feck from top to bottom, but where money is involved it reaches new levels.

I don't even think the first tweet was as bad as some made out, merely pointing out that it wouldn't be a good look if something untoward occurred, (It did.)

The hypocrisy of Neville at al is astounding but not surprising.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Because rich people make the rules.

 

[benj360]

Indeed. Presumably then, according to Neville and Carragher, it was wrong for people to openly suggest that FIFA and UEFA were corrupt during the storm that followed the awarding of the 2018 and 2022 World Cups - even though it then turned out that they bloody were!

In our case (and others such as Wolves), I can't believe so many incidents can all be solely down to incompetence. If it's not outright corruption then it's at least some sort of institutional subconscious bias.

 

[congo_red_49]

Why can't you question integrity? Because those who lack integrity make the rules.

 

[DanR]

You can't question integrity
You can't insult Gary and Jamie

Anger won't get you very far
And you can't have the audio from VAR

 

[Redemption]

In a time when the great institution of the Post Office is being revealed to be a disgraceful hornet's net of corruption, why is it so outlandish to even suggest that the billion pound football industry might not be whiter than white?
When Nuno asked why it was OK to suggest that corruption was possible in those sneaky foreign countries, but not in dear 'Old Blighty,' he hit the nail on the head as to why so many people, get away with so much here.
This country is corrupt as feck from top to bottom, but where money is involved it reaches new levels.

I don't even think the first tweet was as bad as some made out, merely pointing out that it wouldn't be a good look if something untoward occurred, (It did.)

The hypocrisy of Neville at al is astounding but not surprising.

I'm sure we've got enough threads discussing this for there not to need another one.


There's a problem with your post office analogy.

At first, the subpostmasters wernt alleging a scandal or corruption and questioning the integrity of executives at the Post Office. They were highlighting inconsistencies between their own accounts and what the Horizon system was saying had been transacted through the payment system.

In fact, the original question of integrity was when PO leadership started to say that the subpostmaster had their hands in the till and they would begin prosecution.

In that case, it has take two decades to drag the evidence out of the PO to prove that the question of integrity was the other way around.

And that's why everyone should be careful of raising questions of integrity. And litterally that's what the first tweet did, it litterally raised the prospects that Atwell chose his decisions because he supported Luton.

One of the challenges in getting any light shone in areas where transparency is the concern that false allegations would not only persist but increase because people driven by bad faith will twist the truth more than they will twist the absence of info.

The first tweet makes it harder to get an investigation to consider if there are systemic failures happening.

 

[enlightened]

Because people with no integrity don't like to be told they have no integrity. It's as simple as that.

 

[donny]

You can't question integrity
You can't insult Gary and Jamie

Anger won't get you very far
And you can't have the audio from VAR

Open the door,
Get on the Floor
Marinakis blew up the VAR...

 

[DB1702]

Well I have had this very debate with friends and also at work several times this week my fairly simple reasoning as to why you can question integrity or bias is that if England make it to the final of Euro 2024 then no English official will be aloud to be the ref or assistant ref or VAR or 4th official. That is because is could be implied that bias could impact their ability to due their job. No people in the media have an issue with this do they.

 

[El Padre]

If the Catholic church had been held with such high authority no one would have been allowed to question any wrong doings would they?

 

[Robertson]

Well I have had this very debate with friends and also at work several times this week my fairly simple reasoning as to why you can question integrity or bias is that if England make it to the final of Euro 2024 then no English official will be aloud to be the ref or assistant ref or VAR or 4th official. That is because is could be implied that bias could impact their ability to due their job. No people in the media have an issue with this do they.

More relevant is would a Scottish or Irish ref be selected?

Or if Slovenia or whoever needs England to lose their final group match to qualify would they pick a Slovenian ref for the England match?

No they would not. And if they did, questions would be asked. Which is to my knowledge all Forest are doing.

 

[Strummer]

If the Catholic church had been held with such high authority no one would have been allowed to question any wrong doings would they?

 

[Redemption]

More relevant is would a Scottish or Irish ref be selected?

Or if Slovenia or whoever needs England to lose their final group match to qualify would they pick a Slovenian ref for the England match?

No they would not. And if they did, questions would be asked. Which is to my knowledge all Forest are doing.

If you did this across the leagues UK, you'd fast run out of refs to officiate. At somepoint, every club has a memory of a beef with another club. For example, Mark Halsey reffing Forest versus Villa, surely he might be biased against Forest because 1974 and Newcastle?

 

[Captain Sinister]

View attachment 38750

As I have explained many times before when people us this captioned picture, everyone whos put before the Spanish Inquisition knew about it at least 30 days before having to appear.
The Spanish Inquisition was required by the Pope to give those to be inquisitored at least 30 days written notice.

 

[Robertson]

If you did this across the leagues UK, you'd fast run out of refs to officiate. At somepoint, every club has a memory of a beef with another club. For example, Mark Halsey reffing Forest versus Villa, surely he might be biased against Forest because 1974 and Newcastle?

I mean, yeah you have a point. It seems based on his performance in his last couple of matches though Stuart Atwell shouldn’t be refereeing in the Premier League at all. Certainly not be selected for the Euros.

 

[Frank Clark’s Tash]

As I have explained many times before when people us this captioned picture, everyone whos put before the Spanish Inquisition knew about it at least 30 days before having to appear.
The Spanish Inquisition was required by the Pope to give those to be inquisitored at least 30 days written notice.

Yeah, but they'd only specify AM or PM and would inevitably turn up the moment you sat down for lunch.

 

[PynchonForest]

I mean, yeah you have a point. It seems based on his performance in his last couple of matches though Stuart Atwell shouldn’t be refereeing in the Premier League at all. Certainly not be selected for the Euros.

I don't think he should have ever been in the Prem, ever. I've never understood how he got to that level. He's always been bad.

Now, in terms of the integrity of the referees, en masse, there is no way in hell they are all collectively told to give decisions to certain clubs. I think what Halsey is alluding to (and more about him later) is that some wise fella probably told a room full of refs that when they are making calls against Wenger and SAF and Jose they had better make sure they get it right or these guys would rip them to shreds in the media the next day. Which we all know happened many times with SAF, and Jose, and Wenger. Mourinho made one of the greatest refs quit (Frisk) after making false insinuations about him after a game against Barcelona (the ensuing death threats from Chelsea fans forced Frisk out). And Frisk was an outstanding referee. And as for Halsey---I recall a game at Old Trafford where Van DE Gouw (sp?) went off injured, their third string comes in, and a few minutes later hauls down an attacker in the area for a PK and what should have been a sending off. Halsey didn't even give the keeper a card (it might have been Taibi). United would have been hooped. Halsey bottled an easy call big time. So anything he says about any other referee holds zero water with me.

 

[fourth generation red]

I must admit I'm just totally confused....as I've boringly said before,, I went to forest, home and. away, from 1960 until way after the collapse after Clough....I can no longer do this, so I follow the bcc texts.
in virtually. every case where we feel we have a. complaint, the bbc reporters agreed ....I cant remember another season that I would call the season. of bad decisions, but. thats how ill think of this.....its not var as such...I can only assume a high proportion of refs gave their worst performances against us,
I regret the tone used. by the club and I had a job which certainly requires respecting authority, but its also obvious that there comes a point when you have to say something...where was the concern for referees when Alex Ferguson. got his players to crowd and verbally punish them...just because were not a brilliant team shouldn't come into. it.

 

[bloodred]

I think it would have been debatable prior to the Everton match but post match it was certainly a very valid point to question attwells integrity

 

[valspoodle]

It's not that the refs are biased or corrupt, it's just that they are human and consciously or unconsciously they will have an inbuilt bias. We all do. How many times have you watched a match where you have no interest in either team, but before very long you hope one team will win?

Also they will at times watch the wrong thing and miss Willy Boly kick the ball. Then it's all guesswork unless the other team members help out. And how often do we see the man in charge overrule his other team members, possibly though arrogance or the feeling I have to show I'm in charge?

 

[Strummer]

I think it would have been debatable prior to the Everton match but post match it was certainly a very valid point to question attwells integrity

Speak for yourself, I was loudly questioning his parentage.

 

[valspoodle]

Attwell is grossly over-rated in the pantheon of referees. or else the rest aren't very good.

 

[fourth generation red]

obviously, a note is taken of a referees favourite team to prevent any favouritism.
im not alleging anything, but it would obviously protect referees if important matches involving relegation, promotion, titles etc, are involved....not to. do this is, at best, lazy thinking.
a well-respected German news magazine has taken up this story and made some interesting points...I. won't. repeat them because I don't know if their facts. are correct.
if there's a match with 3 penalties taken back through var, there's clearly something wrong....the powers that be will just say what was wrong was that someone had a bad day

 

[Forest65]

As I have explained many times before when people us this captioned picture, everyone whos put before the Spanish Inquisition knew about it at least 30 days before having to appear.
The Spanish Inquisition was required by the Pope to give those to be inquisitored at least 30 days written notice.

In Garganta la Olla, about 10km from here they have a museum of the Inquisition. Next time I go there I'll see what they say.

 

[Strummer]

I don’t think anyone is debating the good Captain‘s explanation that those called before the Inquisition got at least some notice, it’s more that when they got there, maybe what they didn’t expect was a red-hot poker up the arse, the thumbscrews, the rack, and many other amusing tortures that Tomas de Torquemada and his gang were experts at applying?