The World Famous City Ground - Home of the PROPER WORLD‘S OLDEST LEAGUE CLUB

[Otis Redding]

I may be wrong (and feel free to correct me) but the couple of times a new stadium has been seriously proposed the locations for it have been Clifton and Gamston

Do people really believe those locations would have been chosen if a stadium anywhere near the city centre was even remotely viable?

To add to Incident's point, they were put forward by Mark Arthur during Nigel Doughty's long-standing beef with the city council to try and force its hand over the CG freehold tenure. It turned out that neither were genuinely serious proposals on ND's part.

 

[Rockabilly]

It’s all a bit doom and gloom, so maybe a song will lighten the mood?

(With apologies to the Thin White Duke…)

Building control, to Chairman Tom,
Building control, to Chairman Tom,
Sort the Boat Club out, and get a f***ing move on,
(Ten)

Building Control to Chairman Tom,
(nine, eight, seven, six),
Planning permission, Main Stand gone,
(five, four, three, two)
Nice apartments, maybe with a river view…
(two, one, blast-off)

This is Building Control to Chairman Tom,
Don’t you dare lift a spade!
And the fans all want to know, whether you care?
Now it’s time to stick or twist,
if you dare…

This is Chairman Tom to Building Control,
I'm sick of the furore,
And the fans react in a peculiar way,
Might as well just relocate to Remembrance Way…

For here am I sitting in the Board Room,
Far above the pitch,
Evangelos is blue,
And there's nothing I can do…

Though I’ve pissed away all my goodwill,
I'm feeling quite restrained,
And I think Evangelos knows which way to go,
Tell the fans they’re not important though, they know…

Building Control to Chairman Tom,
Your idea‘s dead, the Boat Club‘s won,
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear….?

For here am I sitting in the Board Room,
Far above the pitch,
Evangelos is blue,
And there's nothing I can do…

Brilliant!!!

 

[Mr. Blonde]

To add to Incident's point, they were put forward by Mark Arthur during Nigel Doughty's long-standing beef with the city council to try and force its hand over the CG freehold tenure. It turned out that neither were genuinely serious proposals on ND's part.

The Gamston proposal was part of the 2018 World Cup bid though was it not?

 

[incident]

Fair enough, but then I don't see why that wouldn't be the case again now

End of the day EM is a businessman so I can't see him going for anything other than the most lucrative option

If financially it makes more sense to relocate to a new, more remote, site then ultimately that's what we'll do

Well, in terms of development - one major change is that there isn't currently a comparable proposed development.

The Clifton Pastures site (now rebranded as Fairham) now has the planning permission it needed and is currently being built (full permission for the road layout and industrial units, outline for the rest) and so shoehorning a stadium back into the plans would only complicate things and come at a huge additional and unnecessary cost to the developer - and in this case the developer is also the owner of Derby County so presumably not inclined towards us. Think we can safely say that location is now less likely than a floating stadium on the Trent.

The proposals to develop Gamston immediately east of the A52 seem to have been dropped, and superseded by smaller scale proposals to build on the site of Tollerton Airport - which will probably get permission without too much trouble.

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

The Gamston proposal was part of the 2018 World Cup bid though was it not?

Not Michael Caine's finest film.

 

[incident]

To add to Incident's point, they were put forward by Mark Arthur during Nigel Doughty's long-standing beef with the city council to try and force its hand over the CG freehold tenure. It turned out that neither were genuinely serious proposals on ND's part.

Yep, there was a lot of posturing going on.

I'm still of the belief that if the WC2018 bid had been won, then very quickly minds would have focussed on either Eastside or Eastcroft.

 

[Otis Redding]

The Gamston proposal was part of the 2018 World Cup bid though was it not?

To add again to Incident's post above, in theory, yes.

However, ND's earlier proposal was based, as I noted previously in this thread, on a random piece of land adjoining Rushcliffe council's Gamston depot, and owned by a couple of local developers - John Croft and Alan Goodband - who operated as Havenwood Construction, named after the road they originated from on Clifton Estate. They were a couple of ex-roadworkers-made good.

It's close proximity to the residential estate (John and Alan's plan for the land in question had originally been for further housing) ensured that it would never have had a prayer of obtaining planning permission for a football stadium, not that it was ever even applied for, but the offer to purchase it was useful in ND's ultimately fruitless quest.

 

[REDDERS78]

I have been to Pride Park, and wouldn't drink there (even if we were allowed). But that doesn't change the fact that it's walking distance from the City Centre and so the bars there are still viable options (obviously less so for us).

Well, anywhere is "walking distance" isn't it. Its dreadful location though, and a terrible away day experience because when you arrive, there's a Harvester. Pride Park regularly get slated by away fans and its not even the worst of the lot. Where has it got them? Nowhere, just a soulless flat pack arena with nothing else thrown in, apart from 3rd division football and almost being liquidated. There's not a single fan amongst them that doesn't secretly admire the location we have either. I think a lot of away fans think the same.

I guess were coming from different viewpoints but there's not a cat in hells chance I'll be convinced that that is what's best for Forest or more importantly, Nottingham. A move further away guarantees nothing, apart from the same as derby.

No thanks, I'd rather not bother.

 

[Ashley]

Well, anywhere is "walking distance" isn't it. Its dreadful location though, and a terrible away day experience because when you arrive, there's a Harvester. Pride Park regularly get slated by away fans and its not even the worst of the lot. Where has it got them? Nowhere, just a soulless flat pack arena with nothing else thrown in, apart from 3rd division football and almost being liquidated. There's not a single fan amongst them that doesn't secretly admire the location we have either. I think a lot of away fans think the same.

I guess were coming from different viewpoints but there's not a cat in hells chance I'll be convinced that that is what's best for Forest or more importantly, Nottingham. A move further away guarantees nothing, apart from the same as derby.

No thanks, I'd rather not bother.

Well said, couldn't have put it better myself.

Ultimately Pride Park is what most modern grounds are like (and as you say, it's not even amongst the worst of them) and probably not a million miles away from what we can expect should we move away from the City Ground.

Some people might like that sort of matchday experience, but it's not for me.

 

[Otis Redding]

Well said, couldn't have put it better myself.

Ultimately Pride Park is what most modern grounds are like (and as you say, it's not even amongst the worst of them) and probably not a million miles away from what we can expect should we move away from the City Ground.

Some people might like that sort of matchday experience, but it's not for me.

Me neither, which is why I hope common sense can prevail over the financial terms of the lease by way of the government commissioners ending the current impasse on the council's behalf. Not that I'll be holding my breath in anticipation.

 

[Notcher]

Me neither, which is why I hope common sense can prevail over the financial terms of the lease by way of the government commissioners ending the current impasse on the council's behalf. Not that I'll be holding my breath in anticipation.

In relation to this I'm aware that the secretary of state can override any decisions regarding planning permission but do they also have powers to intervene in matters related to this or freeholds?

 

[incident]

Well, anywhere is "walking distance" isn't it. Its dreadful location though, and a terrible away day experience because when you arrive, there's a Harvester. Pride Park regularly get slated by away fans and its not even the worst of the lot. Where has it got them? Nowhere, just a soulless flat pack arena with nothing else thrown in, apart from 3rd division football and almost being liquidated. There's not a single fan amongst them that doesn't secretly admire the location we have either. I think a lot of away fans think the same.

I guess were coming from different viewpoints but there's not a cat in hells chance I'll be convinced that that is what's best for Forest or more importantly, Nottingham. A move further away guarantees nothing, apart from the same as derby.

No thanks, I'd rather not bother.

Hold on a second, I didn't say (or even come close to implying) that's what I want for Forest.

I simply made the points that a new stadium doesn't have to be miles out of town (and I did mention that while Derby is fairly close to the City Centre it's also in a nothing area which makes it feel more remote), and that while you have no interest in a Harvester style venue (I don't either for that matter), others certainly do - as evidenced by the fact that they do good business including by people on the way to the WFCG.

In the case of Forest, I don't want to move. However if it does ultimately have to happen, evidence from elsewhere suggests that it should be possible to find a location that's suitable close and not stuck out at the likes of Toton or Ratcliffe-on-soar. No, it wouldn't be as good as our current location, but almost nothing would be.

 

[REDDERS78]

Hold on a second, I didn't say (or even come close to implying) that's what I want for Forest.

I simply made the points that a new stadium doesn't have to be miles out of town (and I did mention that while Derby is fairly close to the City Centre it's also in a nothing area which makes it feel more remote), and that while you have no interest in a Harvester style venue (I don't either for that matter), others certainly do - as evidenced by the fact that they do good business including by people on the way to the WFCG.

In the case of Forest, I don't want to move. However if it does ultimately have to happen, evidence from elsewhere suggests that it should be possible to find a location that's suitable close and not stuck out at the likes of Toton or Ratcliffe-on-soar. No, it wouldn't be as good as our current location, but almost nothing would be.

Fair point, apart from the Harvester bit, I mean, you only really go in one if there's no other pubs or if its convenient don't you?

These people you see in said Harvester don't bypass the brilliant pubs in the city or on the walk to the ground to go in there do they? Nothing personally against Harvester, just one plonked next to a ground is hardly a great matchday experience.

Anyway, lets hope it doesn't come to that, for the sake of the local businesses if nothing else.

 

[Redemption]

End of the day EM is a businessman so I can't see him going for anything other than the most lucrative option

If financially it makes more sense to relocate to a new, more remote, site then ultimately that's what we'll do

This is a guy who doesn't allow staff to wear green or purple at work. He kisses his rosary tens of times a game.

You think he makes only rational decisions? He's an emotional and superstitious vesuvius.

 

[Otis Redding]

This is a guy who doesn't allow staff to wear green or purple at work. He kisses his rosary tens of times a game.

You think he makes only rational decisions? He's an emotional and superstitious vesuvius.

He's still a hugely succesfull businessman though, who clearly makes considered, if hard-nosed decisions in his non-football empire.

For my part, I still much prefer an emotional, if too-ambitious-for-his-own-good owner than some faceless, fuc.king detached hedge-fund operator/potential asset-stripper.

 

[Lefkasman]

This is a guy who doesn't allow staff to wear green or purple at work. He kisses his rosary tens of times a game.

You think he makes only rational decisions? He's an emotional and superstitious vesuvius.

Komboloi has nothing to do with prayers or religion.

Sent from my M2003J15SC using Tapatalk

 

[Redemption]

Komboloi has nothing to do with prayers or religion

I did not know that about the beads.

But it barely lessens his superstitious nature.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Spoilt, petulant ManBaby.

 

[Otis Redding]

Spoilt, petulant ManBaby.

Thankfully, Fawaz is long gone.

 

[Cloughie1975]

He's still a hugely succesfull businessman though, who clearly makes considered, if hard-nosed decisions in his non-football empire.

For my part, I still much prefer an emotional, if too-ambitious-for-his-own-good owner than some faceless, fuc.king detached hedge-fund operator/potential asset-stripper.

Agreed,Otis-but I think EM needs to be rather more realistic in his expectations for Forest and be prepared to take a step back from time to time.
I’m not really sure he can fulfill those requirements.

 

[Lefkasman]

I did not know that about the beads.

But it barely lessens his superstitious nature.

They are a stress toy come good luck charm. No different to the superstitious rituals alot of players go through really.

Sent from my M2003J15SC using Tapatalk

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

Spoilt, petulant ManBaby billionaire.

I'm sure he'll cope with the insults

 

[Otis Redding]

Agreed,Otis-but I think EM needs to be rather more realistic in his expectations for Forest and be prepared to take a step back from time to time.
I’m not really sure he can fulfill those requirements.

I don't disagree with you Cloughie, but EM's personality probably won't allow him to even consider stepping-back. He's also been involved in football for long enough to know that he'll never make any money from it, so his primary motivation is eventual success.

 

[Cloughie1975]

I don't disagree with you Cloughie, but EM's personality probably won't allow him to even consider stepping-back. He's also been involved in football for long enough to know that he'll never make any money from it, so his primary motivation is eventual success.

What’s your view if we go down,Otis?
Will EM stick with Forest?

 

[Otis Redding]

What’s your view if we go down,Otis?
Will EM stick with Forest?

I both think and hope so. I doubt that selling will be an option for him anyway, unless of course it's to his South Korean multi-billionaire shipbuilder mate?