The World Famous City Ground - Home of the PROPER WORLD‘S OLDEST LEAGUE CLUB

[Mr. Blonde]

Prefer to stay on the same site if at all possible but we need to do far more than just replace the PT stand - both for quality of facilities and capacity.

I think everything except the Trent End needs demolishing and a total rebuild of 3 stands doing, with more concourse space, better facilities and boxes all the way round.

Long term I think at least the Brian Clough Stand will need replacing, you're right

 

[Ashley]

This is the simple truth and there is no way the authorities are going to allow a new stadium anywhere near the city centre or eastside/cattle market because the whole of the eastside is being redeveloped.
It will eventually be announced it's somewhere near Gotham near the motorway and the tram stop.
West bridgford and the eastside development is not planned to be for the football riff raff

That's I reckon too. When people speak of regeneration projects, they don't mean building a stadium that attracts thousands of football fans each week. They mean things like housing and retail. Like most councils up and down the country, the further away the football grounds and the "riff raff" that they attract every week are from town the better as far as they are concerned. They are going to do us no favours whatsoever with regards to both the City Ground and any potential new stadium.

 

[Otis Redding]

This is the simple truth and there is no way the authorities are going to allow a new stadium anywhere near the city centre or eastside/cattle market because the whole of the eastside is being redeveloped.
It will eventually be announced it's somewhere near Gotham near the motorway and the tram stop.
West bridgford and the eastside development is not planned to be for the football riff raff

That's I reckon too. When people speak of regeneration projects, they don't mean building a stadium that attracts thousands of football fans each week. They mean things like housing and retail. Like most councils up and down the country, the further away the football grounds and the "riff raff" that they attract every week are from town the better as far as they are concerned. They are going to do us no favours whatsoever with regards to both the City Ground and any potential new stadium.

The fact is that most new stadia over the last 25-years-or-so was built within the boundaries of the cities and towns the clubs in question represent, following approval by the respective local authorities and many on what were previously urban brownfield sites.

 

[Notcher]

That's I reckon too. When people speak of regeneration projects, they don't mean building a stadium that attracts thousands of football fans each week. They mean things like housing and retail. Like most councils up and down the country, the further away the football grounds and the "riff raff" that they attract every week are from town the better as far as they are concerned. They are going to do us no favours whatsoever with regards to both the City Ground and any potential new stadium.

You would think that councils would be bending over backwards to have a Premier League football club working their boundary that can generate hundreds of millions for the local economy.

 

[Trents]

I think I read somewhere that Wakefield is the largest place without a league club now.

I would have thought somewhere like Gloucester

 

[Notcher]

I would have thought somewhere like Gloucester

Gloucester has under half the population of Wakefield.

Wakefield has a much bigger population than you'd expect. To give it some context

Wakefield 334,000
Gloucester 132,000
Mansfield (although not a city) 110,000

 

[Ashley]

The fact is that most new stadia over the last 25-years-or-so was built within the boundaries of the cities and towns the clubs in question represent, following approval by the respective local authorities and many on what were previously urban brownfield sites.

Most modern stadiums are like Derby, Reading, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Brighton, etc.

We'll likely end up with something of similar ilk in terms of build and location. Forest won't be an exception to the rule, of that I am certain.

You would think that councils would be bending over backwards to have a Premier League football club working their boundary that can generate hundreds of millions for the local economy.

I don't think many businesses outside of pubs and fast food places really benefit that much from having a football club nearby, if truth be told. Either way, councils and non-football people don't really care for football clubs and prefer not to have them on their doorstep.

 

[Notcher]

Most modern stadiums are like Derby, Reading, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Brighton, etc.

We'll likely end up with something of similar ilk in terms of build and location. Forest won't be an exception to the rule, of that I am certain.

I don't think many businesses outside of pubs and fast food places really benefit that much from having a football club nearby, if truth be told. Either way, councils and non-football people don't really care for football clubs and prefer not to have them on their doorstep.

A financial report highlighted that a premier league club brings in over £210M to the local economy per season.

 

[Rubics]

Look at how many overseas tourists we see at the city ground these days - all with 2 or 3 bags from the shop. Where are they staying, where are they eating, drinking, what else do they see whilst they’re in Nottingham? Away fans who make a weekend of it etc Premier league footie is a massive boost to the local economy.

 

[Ashley]

A financial report highlighted that a premier league club brings in over £210M to the local economy per season.

Look at how many overseas tourists we see at the city ground these days - all with 2 or 3 bags from the shop. Where are they staying, where are they eating, drinking, what else do they see whilst they’re in Nottingham? Away fans who make a weekend of it etc Premier league footie is a massive boost to the local economy.

The problem is most clubs manage to generate that revenue for their local economies with out of town stadiums.

People still stay, eat and drink in the city and town centres before getting the bus or tram to these out of town grounds.

The only businesses that specifically benefit from grounds locations are the pubs and fast food places nearby. Unfortunately the council will still feel that the can get that boost to the economy and shift Forest out of town. For them, Forest moving to a bigger, out of town stadium is a win-win; they can generate more revenue and shift Forest away from the city centre.

Sadly outside of football fans, we don't have any friends or allies who are going to do us any favours as ultimately there isn't anything in it for them. When you look at things like that, you start to understand why most modern stadiums are the way they are IMO.

 

[Strummer]

It’s all a bit doom and gloom, so maybe a song will lighten the mood?

(With apologies to the Thin White Duke…)

Building control, to Chairman Tom,
Building control, to Chairman Tom,
Sort the Boat Club out, and get a f***ing move on,
(Ten)

Building Control to Chairman Tom,
(nine, eight, seven, six),
Planning permission, Main Stand gone,
(five, four, three, two)
Nice apartments, maybe with a river view…
(two, one, blast-off)

This is Building Control to Chairman Tom,
Don’t you dare lift a spade!
And the fans all want to know, whether you care?
Now it’s time to stick or twist,
if you dare…

This is Chairman Tom to Building Control,
I'm sick of the furore,
And the fans react in a peculiar way,
Might as well just relocate to Remembrance Way…

For here am I sitting in the Board Room,
Far above the pitch,
Evangelos is blue,
And there's nothing I can do…

Though I’ve pissed away all my goodwill,
I'm feeling quite restrained,
And I think Evangelos knows which way to go,
Tell the fans they’re not important though, they know…

Building Control to Chairman Tom,
Your idea‘s dead, the Boat Club‘s won,
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear me, Chairman Tom?
Can you hear….?

For here am I sitting in the Board Room,
Far above the pitch,
Evangelos is blue,
And there's nothing I can do…

 

[Otis Redding]

The problem is most clubs manage to generate that revenue for their local economies with out of town stadiums.

People still stay, eat and drink in the city and town centres before getting the bus or tram to these out of town grounds.

The only businesses that specifically benefit from grounds locations are the pubs and fast food places nearby. Unfortunately the council will still feel that the can get that boost to the economy and shift Forest out of town. For them, Forest moving to a bigger, out of town stadium is a win-win; they can generate more revenue and shift Forest away from the city centre.

Sadly outside of football fans, we don't have any friends or allies who are going to do us any favours as ultimately there isn't anything in it for them. When you look at things like that, you start to understand why most modern stadiums are the way they are IMO.

You've managed to convince yourself that if the club is forced to re-locate, a remote, rural location will be the only option. I'm equally convinced that Nottingham city and RB councils will ensure that that won't be the case. Particularly in West Bridgford, and the southern end of the city centre, as has been said, the financial hole left will be hugely serious for many businesses without matchday revenue for nine months of the year.

 

[stockers]

Brian Clough stand still needs replacing not necessarily with extra capacity but with a concourse that’s more than 2 metres wide

That’s pretty straight forward as the back of the stand could just be ripped out and the internal remodelled and expanded, at the moment the stand doesn’t even use its entire footprint.. I just find it hard to believe that if the club wanted to get on with this work why wouldn’t they pay £850,000 a year, which is frankly peanuts given the amount of money pissed up the wall on everything else..

 

[Ashley]

You've managed to convince yourself that if the club is forced to re-locate, a remote, rural location will be the only option. I'm equally convinced that Nottingham city and RB councils will ensure that that won't be the case. Particularly in West Bridgford, and the southern end of the city centre, as has been said, the financial hole left will be hugely serious for many businesses without matchday revenue for nine months of the year.

I just think we'll end up with the same kind of modern grounds most clubs end up with in terms of both location and build. As someone pointed out on this thread a few pages back, we aren't special and won't have the sort of financial might that the likes of Spurs and Everton had behind their stadiums.

And as far as the councils are concerned I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I have even less faith in any non-Forest supporting locals getting behind any plans for a new stadium in a desirable location.

I've seen and been to enough of these new grounds to know that I don't want it, and I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that we are going to be an exception to the rule should we move ground.

If we move then I expect the worst, and the history of new grounds in this country over the last few decades shows that such fears are more than justified IMO.

 

[Notcher]

That’s pretty straight forward as the back of the stand could just be ripped out and the internal remodelled and expanded, at the moment the stand doesn’t even use its entire footprint.. I just find it hard to believe that if the club wanted to get on with this work why wouldn’t they pay £850,000 a year, which is frankly peanuts given the amount of money pissed up the wall on everything else..

Because it's not about the cost of the rent it's what the rental price causes by proxy which is for the cost of the freehold to increase by 300%. It's always been about the freehold

 

[Otis Redding]

I just think we'll end up with the same kind of modern grounds most clubs end up with in terms of both location and build. As someone pointed out on this thread a few pages back, we aren't special and won't have the sort of financial might that the likes of Spurs and Everton had behind their stadiums.

And as far as the councils are concerned I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I have even less faith in any non-Forest supporting locals getting behind any plans for a new stadium in a desirable location.

I've seen and been to enough of these new grounds to know that I don't want it, and I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that we are going to be an exception to the rule should we move ground.

If we move then I expect the worst, and the history of new grounds in this country over the last few decades shows that such fears are more than justified IMO.

It's a valid opinion, but stadia design notwithstanding, it's one that's not backed-up with evidence (possibly Brighton and Reading aside) in terms of a remote location, which you seem convinced and (quite rightly I should add) concerned by.

 

[Ashley]

It's a valid opinion, but stadia design notwithstanding, it's one that's not backed-up with evidence (possibly Brighton and Reading aside) in terms of a remote location, which you seem convinced and (quite rightly I should add) concerned by.

I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. A lot of these new grounds, whilst technically still in city/town boundaries, are still quite out of the way in my experience (enough for me to consider them practically out of town anyway). I've seen and been to enough to know that something similar for Forest is not what I want.

 

[REDDERS78]

I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. A lot of these new grounds, whilst technically still in city/town boundaries, are still quite out of the way in my experience (enough for me to consider them practically out of town anyway). I've seen and been to enough to know that something similar for Forest is not what I want.

It also the reason people rank us highly as an away day. The ability to get off the train, have a few jars on the walk to the ground and watch the game, the same as many home fans.

The only people that seem in favour of this new stadium miles away seem to be those that don't live in Nottingham, those that don't go to games and those that would find it more convenient because its closer to their house.

Who want to sit in a Harvesters pub on an away day? Nobody.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I may be wrong (and feel free to correct me) but the couple of times a new stadium has been seriously proposed the locations for it have been Clifton and Gamston

Do people really believe those locations would have been chosen if a stadium anywhere near the city centre was even remotely viable?

 

[incident]

Regarding locations of new-build stadiums, it's really not true that most of them are "out of town". It just seems that way because what surrounds them is often retail park type stuff.

Sunderland, Southampton, Cardiff, Millwall, Huddersfield, Hull, Brentford, Wimbledon, Leicester and Rotherham have all managed to stay "close-enough" to their spiritual homes. If they can, we should be able to, and there's probably others I'm missing.

Derby and Middlesborough are being named as "out of town" and while it's true that those stadiums are awful generic flat packs surrounded by nothing of interest, they're really not remote or out of town - they're still very much walking distance (and actually closer) to their respective town centres & train stations than the grounds they replaced.

Yes, Boltons location is an utter disgrace and should be a matter of shame for the club. Brightons isn't much better but there's extenuating circumstances there. And there are the Swansea, Reading, Coventry types - but that's not a majority.

Who want to sit in a Harvesters pub on an away day? Nobody.

All the people who stop at the one on Wilford Lane?

 

[REDDERS78]

Regarding locations of new-build stadiums, it's really not true that most of them are "out of town". It just seems that way because what surrounds them is often retail park type stuff.

Sunderland, Southampton, Cardiff, Millwall, Huddersfield, Hull, Brentford, Wimbledon, Leicester and Rotherham have all managed to stay "close-enough" to their spiritual homes. If they can, we should be able to, and there's probably others I'm missing.

Derby and Middlesborough are being named as "out of town" and while it's true that those stadiums are awful generic flat packs surrounded by nothing of interest, they're really not remote or out of town - they're still very much walking distance (and actually closer) to their respective town centres & train stations than the grounds they replaced.

Yes, Boltons location is an utter disgrace and should be a matter of shame for the club. Brightons isn't much better but there's extenuating circumstances there. And there are the Swansea, Reading, Coventry types - but that's not a majority.


All the people who stop at the one on Wilford Lane?

I'm talking about the majority of fans, not 4 on the way to the match because it on route..

If you've ever been to pride Park, you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

[Ashley]

I may be wrong (and feel free to correct me) but the couple of times a new stadium has been seriously proposed the locations for it have been Clifton and Gamston

Do people really believe those locations would have been chosen if a stadium anywhere near the city centre was even remotely viable?

And Toton is now the latest name doing the rounds too...

 

[Mr. Blonde]

People keep mentioning what other clubs have done in other cities but to be honest I couldn't care less about any of that, each situation has it's own peculiarities, issues, hurdles etc

All I'm interested in is what Forest would do, and as I mentioned the two times a new ground has been proposed it's been Clifton and Gamston as the location, so any location close to the current ground clearly isn't a realistic option

Unless of course either the club on both occasions either preferred those sites to one closer in (for some reason?), or just didn't pursue options nearer the City Ground, neither of which seem likely to me

 

[incident]

I may be wrong (and feel free to correct me) but the couple of times a new stadium has been seriously proposed the locations for it have been Clifton and Gamston

Do people really believe those locations would have been chosen if a stadium anywhere near the city centre was even remotely viable?

Both locations were chosen because there was a (supposedly) well financed developer looking to use the stadium as an enabling development - the stadium would have been the "community benefit" part of a much larger development that unlocked the land, so they'd build the stadium for us for free, and more than make the costs back on all the other stuff that doing so unlocked. Those proposals were absolutely nothing to do with a lack of viable alternative locations - just that they were seen as the most lucrative.

I'm talking about the majority of fans, not 4 on the way to the match because it on route..

If you've ever been to pride Park, you'll know exactly what I mean.

I have been to Pride Park, and wouldn't drink there (even if we were allowed). But that doesn't change the fact that it's walking distance from the City Centre and so the bars there are still viable options (obviously less so for us).

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Both locations were chosen because there was a (supposedly) well financed developer looking to use the stadium as an enabling development - the stadium would have been the "community benefit" part of a much larger development that unlocked the land, so they'd build the stadium for us for free, and more than make the costs back on all the other stuff that doing so unlocked. Those proposals were absolutely nothing to do with a lack of viable alternative locations - just that they were seen as the most lucrative.

Fair enough, but then I don't see why that wouldn't be the case again now

End of the day EM is a businessman so I can't see him going for anything other than the most lucrative option

If financially it makes more sense to relocate to a new, more remote, site then ultimately that's what we'll do