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Sustainability

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
His is far from a strawman argument. I can steelman it if you wish. Gold mining for the tech industry is one of the main causes of deforestation in the Amazon The extraction process generates mercury and cyanide waste which contaminates river systems and drinking water. Coltan is a mineral containing tantalum for electronic devices which for years has been traded by armed groups to finance civil war. Then there's the cobolt, graphite, aluminium, magnesium lithium, iron etc etc, all are destructive in their extraction. These materials are from entirely different areas across the globe and shipped for manufacturing before being shipped all over the globe again.

Let's not pretend these material things are a necessity, we don't need them, we want them. I bet you own a car and if you really wanted to you could get public transport but you don't because having these things makes your life more comfortable and convenient. To say Ash doesn't have a point is completely disingenuous.

We're all guilty of it and we're all hypocrites.
It's still a straw man as unrelated to the merits of flying to Blackpool.

Not going to take over the thread again, I've said my piece, and directly answered the points you've replied with already which others have brought up prior. Conversation can move on from me now.
 

Ashley

Steve Chettle
His is far from a strawman argument. I can steelman it if you wish. Gold mining for the tech industry is one of the main causes of deforestation in the Amazon The extraction process generates mercury and cyanide waste which contaminates river systems and drinking water. Coltan is a mineral containing tantalum for electronic devices which for years has been traded by armed groups to finance civil war. Then there's the cobolt, graphite, aluminium, magnesium lithium, iron etc etc, all are destructive in their extraction. These materials are from entirely different areas across the globe and shipped for manufacturing before being shipped all over the globe again.

Let's not pretend these material things are a necessity, we don't need them, we want them. I bet you own a car and if you really wanted to you could get public transport but you don't because having these things makes your life more comfortable and convenient. To say Ash doesn't have a point is completely disingenuous.

We're all guilty of it and we're all hypocrites.
And to make it worse, these devices are often discarded a few years after use (and in some cases, designed with obsolescence in mind) and are difficult to recycle too. Smartphones are absolutely dreadful for the environment.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
There was a bit of chat about it in the the Scarpa thread for some reason.

I made my feelings clear on it, I think it was ridiculous and highly irresponsible. And it was made even more embarrassing by the fact its supposed to help the players and the performance they put in from it was a disgrace at times. My only conclusion is that they were jet lagged.

It's a problem for football generally and needs addressing.

Unsurprisingly the club were defended though by the usual suspects on here who would put a positive spin on it if we were sponsored by the Taliban.
Jet lagged?
Did the pilot go the wrong way round the great circle?
Anyway: whether we fly, go by bus, take taxis, cycle or walk, it is no ones business except ourown.
One flight EMA to Blackpool and back isn't going to destroy the planet.
Every minute there is more damage to the planet from shipping (bunker fuel is the worst for pollution), from heavy indusrty, deforrestation, and my brother making another cup of tea on his gas stove.
 

JohhnyM

Viv Anderson
Hmmmm. So why did the world's climates change prior to mankind roaming the planet? Nothing to do with the sun then?
We're talking about the next 50 - 100 years now. What you refer to happened over millions of years. The here and now issue of global warming would be fixed if nobody ate meat. It's never going to happen though so I wouldn't worry about it either way.
 

Omar Devone Little

Mr Realistic
There is about 25 minutes difference in the distance between going to Southampton & Blackpool, not factoring in the god awful M6. But one is a disgrace & one is reasonable?
I did say 'more reasonable' to be fair. To be honest there aren't many journeys at all that a club based centrally like us should need to make by air.

I'd get it if it was Newcastle or Brighton that we were talking about a bit more but not a club in the Midland.

Just seems highly unnecessary IMO.
 

JohhnyM

Viv Anderson
As much as I agree with the sentiment, I dare say it's not as easy as that. Meat production is a significant market for CO2 emission, but to overall, global CO2 output it barely scratches the surface. We have also experienced the fastest improvement in global living conditions over the last 40 years in the history of humanity. Worry about the environment, sure. But don't forget the trade off that the human race should be incredibly proud of achieving. Over a billion people have escaped absolute poverty in my lifetime alone. As the developing world gets richer (which I hope they continue to do) they will switch from rice and staple foods to luxuries like meat as they are entitled to. They will live in bigger houses, start using a/c, watch TV for a few hours a day, get laptops and rant about the plight of the world, drive to watch their football team lose 4-1 in a game they should win and wash down their leisure time with a few imported beers. When the 5bn people globally start reaching the living standards we enjoy, and take for granted, we'll have a different climate on our hands. But I wouldn't worry. In the time it takes for that to happen, new technologies will reduce marginal CO2 output. Transport will be more fuel efficient. The power of nuclear may well solve the energy crisis all the renewables fail to do.

Ah man! it's all too much for me. I'll stick to worrying about Forest. My heart rate, blood pressure and Gordon Ramsay forehead can't cope with the plight of the world as well!
Meat production is more about CH4 than it is about CO2, but nobody mentions CH4 because most people wouldn't contemplate giving up meat, and like you say, meat is a sign of prosperity in developing countries. CH4 is just as much a cause of global warming, if not more, than CO2. So the principle was what I referred to.

However if I was in India and some entitled f***er in the UK is shouting at me for burning coal while flying football teams all over the place and eating meat 21 times a week then I might stick two fingers up as well.
 

Buckeye

Ze List #276
All this talk of straw men, since straw is a byproduct of the farming industry and has a lot of practical uses, as long as it's not burned it's probably up there as a sustainable material.

A straw man would also probably be as effective on the pitch as some Forest players I've seen over the years, plane or otherwise.
 

Morpeth

John Robertson
I did say 'more reasonable' to be fair. To be honest there aren't many journeys at all that a club based centrally like us should need to make by air.

I'd get it if it was Newcastle or Brighton that we were talking about a bit more but not a club in the Midland.

Just seems highly unnecessary IMO.
Newcastle is about 10 minutes further away! Just let them do what they want i say.
 

gamble

Stuart Pearce
Newcastle is about 10 minutes further away! Just let them do what they want i say.
From here Newcastle is further but quicker to get to. It's a 2 hour journey with a decent run, took me 2.5 hours to get to Blackpool and that was a decent run tbf.
 

Omar Devone Little

Mr Realistic
Newcastle is about 10 minutes further away! Just let them do what they want i say.
I mean air travel for a team like Newcastle getting down to the south coast etc makes sense. Not us getting up there.

I'd be interested to know what we consider to be too close, would we fly to Leeds? Or the West Midlands?
 

Ashley

Steve Chettle
Just let them do what they want i say.
Ultimately everyone does, including those criticising others for their choices. The difference really is that some people get on with it, whilst others point fingers whilst convincing themselves that the things that they do are okay or justifiable somehow.
 

Fitzcarraldo

Ian Storey-Moore
I'm pretty sure the last human left on Earth's dying act will be to scrawl into the scorched dirt 'it was Forest wot did it'.

Expected better from the newly awakened regime.
 

Berkshire Red

Jack Armstrong
We're talking about the next 50 - 100 years now. What you refer to happened over millions of years. The here and now issue of global warming would be fixed if nobody ate meat. It's never going to happen though so I wouldn't worry about it either way.
Ah, the great human being. Believes he can control something the size of the earth and its climate. It's a great money making scheme for some, a scam to many others.
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Ultimately everyone does, including those criticising others for their choices. The difference really is that some people get on with it, whilst others point fingers whilst convincing themselves that the things that they do are okay or justifiable somehow.

Nice underhand dig but I've already given examples of my consumption reduction, if you missed it whilst relentlessly banging on about why my smartphone usage made me a hypocrite. ;)

Believe it or not, some people are actively trying to make better choices.
 

Mr RayReardon

Jack Burkitt
Meat production is more about CH4 than it is about CO2, but nobody mentions CH4 because most people wouldn't contemplate giving up meat, and like you say, meat is a sign of prosperity in developing countries. CH4 is just as much a cause of global warming, if not more, than CO2. So the principle was what I referred to.

However if I was in India and some entitled f***er in the UK is shouting at me for burning coal while flying football teams all over the place and eating meat 21 times a week then I might stick two fingers up as well.
I don't know enough about the CH4, CO2 to really comment but I certainly support your last comment with a top hat and a pint of imported beer. Dont' worry though, we're not all doomed and for those of us who like a steak and chips, we can continue eating them. Have faith in the human race, and it's remarkable tendency to solve problems through innovation. When the 5bn people that can only dream of our living standards experience the same levels of education. We'll have 250% the brain power! We might just be ok as a human race. In the meantime, let's worry about three points more than how the players get there ... and what they eat for their recovery meals!
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Ah, the great human being. Believes he can control something the size of the earth and its climate. It's a great money making scheme for some, a scam to many others.
People who believe man-made climate change is a scam often refer to this "money making scheme" but can never really point out where this money is being made or who by with any real examples.

Pretty much margins for fossil fuel companies at the moment are just dandy, and I don't think Apple is complaining too much about having Chinese manufacturers make their devices for $2 and a bowl of rice, which they flog on for god knows how much now.
 

Fitzcarraldo

Ian Storey-Moore
My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do I want?
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Nottingham to Newcastle is easily 3 to 3.5 hours as it’s 165 miles. I do it regularly.
2 hours if you can average 83mph.



Loads of contingency there if you're flying.
 
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