MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Looks like a mutual engagement or tussle to me.
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Standard of Referees (Sponsored by Steven Reid)
- Thread starter Tartan Tart Ups
- Start date
Looks like a mutual engagement or tussle to me.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
yeah tbf that rat face probably deserved it anyway
I'm just bumping this thread in readiness for Saturday afternoon and the awarding of some astonishingly generous decisions to a couple of teams playing at 3pm....
Yes, this is my concern too. They say it is ‘all in our own hands’….but it isn’t really, is it. We’ve got the refs and VAR to contend with.
On a loosely related note, I see that Ashley Young is joining Talksport for the Euros
It was probably in the pipeline at the time of the Everton match. Probably explains a few things.
I'm sure he'll be able to handle it.On a loosely related note, I see that Ashley Young is joining Talksport for the Euros
PynchonForest
John Robertson
You have no idea what was said to him before the match about how to referee the game. I am quite certain he was given "instructions". Webb was an excellent referee. And yes, everyone knew it was a red card.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
Huh? So referees often operate under special instructions do they?
PynchonForest
John Robertson
I think, in huge games like the final of any major tournament, the referee head honcho, whomever it may be, probably has a some "sage" advice for the crew before the game. In this case, it definitely backfired. It's not like Webb didn't know what a red card was. But he was probably told to only pull a red if it was an insane challenge. Which this was. During that game about a half dozen refs I know and I tried to figure out how Webb could miss such an obvious call. We came to a collective conclusion that something must have been said pre match. It's like the 2018 World Cup final. I think the ref went back to the screen two more times. An ex national ref and I discussed it a few days later and he was of the opinion the guy "upstairs" made teh final decision ( aka "You have to go back and look at it again").
Red Ray's Redlist
Viv Anderson
It was probably along the lines of "I know you're nervous Webbo but that Roger Milford knew how to ref a final so just do what he would have and you'll be fine."
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
Interesting insight thanks. But it’s done nothing to dispel any notions I have that Howard Webb is not immune to corruption and conspiracy.
valspoodle
Steve Chettle
So much for the vaunted hope that the ref on the field has the final decision. The refereeing world seems to have many and varied ideas on the game, not all of which are to be found in the Laws of the Game.
PynchonForest
John Robertson
Probably not far off of the truth. Webb was an excellent referee, but that was a huge blight on his career. And I recall watching him after that foul and he looked completely beside himself, not like his usual self.
PynchonForest
John Robertson
As much as some strange things have occurred regarding referee decisions, I just can't buy into the conspiracy stuff. Too many people involved for there to be complete silence. I mean, I've felt pressure from certain local teams when I have reffed them, and that is one millionth of what pro referees deal with. IF showing dissent didn't work, nobody would do it. It's like advertising. People say they are "unaffected" by advertising, which is a total crock. If advertising didn't work companies would not spend untold billions on it. Refs are human, and smart players and coaches can, at times, manipulate referees.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
Well you’ve literally just given a possible example in which Howard Webb was given particular instructions prior to the game as to how to referee the world cup final, about which he has never breathed a word as far as I know so…
PynchonForest
John Robertson
But he is one guy, and they are one crew (the four of them). Certainly easier to keep that behind closed doors than 40 or 50 people.
Quite frankly I don't care what was told to him before the game.There should be NO instructions whatsoever given to a ref,the rules of a game are written down and those should be followed to a tee, we're not talkimg about an under 8s game where a child has been scared to get a ball to the face and lifted his hands.
Any instructions that aren't within the rule book can be used quite easily for match/bet fixing and determining results knowing they can justify their decision.
When things are written down, there should be no grey areas and that's in any walk of life as there can be no misunderstanding and that means no issues.
On Saturday we have Harrington as referee, Pawson as fourth official, and Brooks on VAR.
Yesterday I listened to someone on TalkSPORT advise that NFFC was a major beneficiary of VAR induced changed decisions this season. It seems to have ignored decisions which VAR chose not to check or ignore.
The continued defence of PGMOL members is ridiculous. Every week we see blatant errors, and a gross lack of consistency for incredibly similar offences. Each week we see justification for the decisions - high bar/low bar etc etc.
We have witnessed changes in management of PGMOL, and changes to the roster of referees. Webb was brought in to improve refereeing standards but it has got worse.
Unless and until PGMOL recognise the decline and reverse it, nothing will change. Six match officials and technology for every PL game and it’s getting worse.
Why do the ‘elite’ teams benefit from decisions so frequently? Why is there such a lengthy list of diabolical decisions for clubs like Forest and Wolves this season. If it is incompetence do something about it. The longer it goes on it is inevitable that other reasons will aired.
Yesterday I listened to someone on TalkSPORT advise that NFFC was a major beneficiary of VAR induced changed decisions this season. It seems to have ignored decisions which VAR chose not to check or ignore.
The continued defence of PGMOL members is ridiculous. Every week we see blatant errors, and a gross lack of consistency for incredibly similar offences. Each week we see justification for the decisions - high bar/low bar etc etc.
We have witnessed changes in management of PGMOL, and changes to the roster of referees. Webb was brought in to improve refereeing standards but it has got worse.
Unless and until PGMOL recognise the decline and reverse it, nothing will change. Six match officials and technology for every PL game and it’s getting worse.
Why do the ‘elite’ teams benefit from decisions so frequently? Why is there such a lengthy list of diabolical decisions for clubs like Forest and Wolves this season. If it is incompetence do something about it. The longer it goes on it is inevitable that other reasons will aired.
donny
Grenville Morris
Its not VAR that annoys me. Its the fact that the threshold for intervention appears to change on a match by match basis.
I can accept that one or two decisions a weekend being 'wrong'/different is OK, as human factors can assist, but, when you're talking half a dozen incidents in 10 matches on a weekend, thats far too much.
Roger Milford hit the nail on the head a couple of weeks ago.
The on pitch product in the Premier League is up there with the best in the world, its just a shame that some of the refereeing wouldn't be fit for a park on a weekend.
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
In fairness to Pynchon he's probably correct about the advice given to the ref before the final. All eyes are on any final and they want to allow for the best spectacle possible. The last world cup final was probably the best I've ever seen and I can't remember anything about the referee.
The trouble with giving the ref "advice" before a final and wanting "the best spectacle possible" is you end up with a scenario where the ref doesn't want to send off the media darling player 15 minutes in.
The stud marks on Garry Parker's ribcage, and the subsequent destruction of Paul Gascoigne's knee ligaments are all the examples you need for why that is a bad idea.
If a player needs sending off, send him off.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
Exactly - rules are rules. They don't change for a final.
Robertson
Geoff Thomas
I’m still baffled how any of this is supposed to reassure me that different games aren’t refereed differently depending on the circumstances, and that Howard Webb isn’t totally fine with it.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
"Yeah, it's fine - we've been doing this for years it's just noone noticed."
Referees are shit? As has always been the case. There's just more shit to spread around these days, what with fourth officials, VAR and linesmen who can't remember whether it's flag up or flag down, not that they were keeping up with the game anyway.
The phrase I wish I'd used on the Sunday afternoon of the Everton game, when Forest tweeted THAT tweet was that this was "an Emperor's New Clothes" moment.
Everyone has been going round for years thinking and believeing everything is fine.
Until someone boldly pipes up "everything is not fine".
And then slowly people start to realise.
Everyone has been going round for years thinking and believeing everything is fine.
Until someone boldly pipes up "everything is not fine".
And then slowly people start to realise.
Lefkasman
Ian Bowyer
They change if the player is on one yellow and deserves a second.
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